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X-Box 2 details?

post #1 of 44
3/8/05 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
Okay, I first heard this on The Screensavers just now, and since it is not movie news, I figured it would be okay to post it here (if I am wrong one of the admins can feel free to e-mail me at caseyko74@yahoo and let me know, and next time I will be sure to send it in correctly).

X-Box 2 details from Gamespy:

The Guts of the Next Box


CPU - Xenon's CPU has three 3.0 GHz PowerPC cores. Each core is capable of two instructions per cycle and has an L1 cache with 32 KB for data and 32 KB for instructions. The three cores share 1 MB of L2 cache. Alpha 2 developer kits currently have two cores instead of three.


GPU - Xenon's GPU is a generation beyond the ATI X800. Its clock speed is 500 MHz and it supports Shader 3.0. Developers are currently working with an alpha 2 GPU. Beta GPU units are expected by May and the final GPU is slated for a summer release. The final GPU will be more powerful than anything on the market today; in game terms, it would handle a game like Half-Life 2 with ease.


System Memory - Xenon will have 256 MB of system RAM. Keep in mind that this number should not be equated to typical PC RAM. The Xbox has 64 MB of system RAM and is a very capable machine.


Optical Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon will not use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Games will come on dual-layer DVD-9 discs. While the media is the same as that of the current Xbox, the usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB. The drive is slated to run at 12X.


Memory Units - Xenon will use 64 MB to 1,024 MB memory cards. 8 MB is reserved for system use, leaving a 56 MB to 1,016 MB for user data.


Hard Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon's hard drive is optional. 2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache. The final drive size is still being determined.


Camera - Xenon will have a USB 2.0 camera. It's capable of 1.2 megapixel still shots and VGA video. Photos can be used in-game and for gamer profiles. The camera can also be used for video chat. It's unknown if the Xenon camera will allow for EyeToy-like gameplay. Developers are currently using a simulated camera driver.


Sound Chip - Xenon does not have an audio chip in the traditional sense. Decompression is handled by hardware, while the rest of the chores are handled by software. DirectSound3D has been dropped in favor of X3DAudio. The former was deemed too inflexible.
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post #2 of 44
3/8/05 at 9:40pm
Intersting...sounds legit.

Although I think not adopting the next gen of storage format (blue ray vs. hd-dvd) is a mistake. Possibly a big one. Being a generation behind in the technology doesnt seem to make sense when Sony and Microsoft are such big proponents of making their consoles the hub of home entertainment. I guess Sony is much more Gung Ho about that, but Microsoft has always talked about their Xbox taking a similar role in the home entertainment system like "replacing the DVD player, DVR, and cable box" type talk. I guess MS really believes that strongly in taking the dive earlier. I am sure they will be able to throw enough money at the console to keep it competing with Sony, but this is a very risky move.

Optional Hard Drive seems like the logical way to go also. Xbox Livers will no doubt go for the HD.

But either way, it all depends on the games. I figure this talk of Halo 3 being slated for the Xbox 2 to release on the day of the PS3, and Bungie doubling their staff (which they have denied, but Microsoft Execs have stated) is probably all true then.

I will probably wait till the PS3 "drops" before I make a decision on a next gen system though. I have been burned too often by shitty launch titles and hardware bugs.
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post #3 of 44
3/8/05 at 9:54pm
Quote:
CPU - Xenon's CPU has three 3.0 GHz PowerPC cores
Excuse my computer hardware "n00bness", but does this mean three 3.0 GHz chips in comparison to PS3's single 4 GHz chip?

If so......damn.
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post #4 of 44
3/8/05 at 11:20pm
Comparing the CPUs between the consoles is almost meaningless, it all depends on the architecture and how accessible it is to the developers. That having been said, how could they possibly price this monster under $300?? It seems like it would cost more than twice that, even assuming Microsoft takes another huge bath on the console.
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post #5 of 44
3/9/05 at 2:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd
Comparing the CPUs between the consoles is almost meaningless, it all depends on the architecture and how accessible it is to the developers. That having been said, how could they possibly price this monster under $300?? It seems like it would cost more than twice that, even assuming Microsoft takes another huge bath on the console.
Yes and the PSP is going to sell for 400 and I'm going to have to sell a car to get the PS3. Just wait for the company to annonce the price please before actually whinning about the cost.
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post #6 of 44
3/9/05 at 2:12am
okay so who can give me a side by side comparison, spec for spec of Xbox 2 and Ps3?
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post #7 of 44
3/9/05 at 11:16am
Its looking pretty nice I must say...tho I can't believe that it'll atually end up being $300. That somehow seems just a touch too little in my opinion. How near confirmed is that? Or is that just online hearsay? or heresey?
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post #8 of 44
3/9/05 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
Yes and the PSP is going to sell for 400 and I'm going to have to sell a car to get the PS3. Just wait for the company to annonce the price please before actually whinning about the cost.
Looking at those specs, I'd say it's a legitimate question.
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post #9 of 44
3/9/05 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malliabu: Honkin' On Bobo
Excuse my computer hardware "n00bness", but does this mean three 3.0 GHz chips in comparison to PS3's single 4 GHz chip?

If so......damn.
It's a single multi-processor core.

If it was 3 CPUs of that type, the console would probably cost around 1500-2000 if not more.
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post #10 of 44
3/9/05 at 11:50am
I need the hard drive. That's one of my favorite things about the first X-Box.
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post #11 of 44
3/9/05 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fett
Looking at those specs, I'd say it's a legitimate question.
It is and it isn't. Remember that PS3 will also be very expensive to manufacture, taking into account that in 2006 blu-ray players will still be in their infancy and will cost a good deal of money. But there's no way Microsoft and Sony will price their machines in the $500 range. If they do, they'll flop, because casual gamers will ignore them and stick with the current generation consoles, which cost $150.

As for comparing the Nextbox to the PS3, you can't. PS3 appears to have a stronger CPU and more memory but Nextbox appears to have a stronger GPU. The key here is how well the components will communicate with each other.
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post #12 of 44
3/9/05 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
Yes and the PSP is going to sell for 400 and I'm going to have to sell a car to get the PS3. Just wait for the company to annonce the price please before actually whinning about the cost.
Unbunch your panties, I was not whining about the cost, I was wondering how they are going to price it competitively, which they obviously must and will do. So I am more skeptical of the specs than the final cost.
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post #13 of 44
3/9/05 at 1:20pm
Thread Starter 
The second part of Gamespy's coverage.

I think it is legitimate to worry about the pirce. I just got an X-Box for Christmas. The only reason I got it was a friend got one for free after they bought their big giant TV. Some of us have other things to pay for besides an X-Box, and price can be prohibitive.
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post #14 of 44
3/9/05 at 2:06pm
If microsoft doesn't go for the next generation disc storage they will change the xbox for another printing when they have an idea of who will win.
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post #15 of 44
3/9/05 at 2:37pm
These consoles are going to cost 300 bucks at release. How do I know? I'm a fucking genius, that's how.
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post #16 of 44
3/9/05 at 4:25pm
The only interesting thing here is in the software side, the profile idea has a lot of good potential ...
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post #17 of 44
3/9/05 at 6:04pm
Well quite honestly, the xbox2 seems to be alot more cost efficient than the PS3 so far.

PS3 has the much touted Cell chip, which has to have its own machines built just to make the damn thing, plus its something totally new which usually equates to higher cost. The blu-ray crap probably won't replace DVDs for another 5 to 10 years, considering that there's still many people who don't own a dvd player. Additionally, how many movies are made today in the blu-ray format??

Sony keeps saying this Cell chip is so powerful that they don't even need a GPU.

Xbox has three 3.0ghz PowerPC cores and PowerPC is pretty established so it won't cost as much to manufacture as the Cell chip. With the hard drive thrown out, cost is even more down. Those thinking about getting the hard drive, Microsoft is selling 1 gig memory cards to go along with the xbox. I'd say that would last awhile, unless you're a total custom music whore.

PS2 was notorious for having a "not so developer friendly" architecture. Considering the hardware they're using, I'd expect the PS3 to have the same problem.
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post #18 of 44
3/10/05 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radb707
Well quite honestly, the xbox2 seems to be alot more cost efficient than the PS3 so far.

PS3 has the much touted Cell chip, which has to have its own machines built just to make the damn thing, plus its something totally new which usually equates to higher cost. The blu-ray crap probably won't replace DVDs for another 5 to 10 years, considering that there's still many people who don't own a dvd player. Additionally, how many movies are made today in the blu-ray format??

Sony keeps saying this Cell chip is so powerful that they don't even need a GPU.

Xbox has three 3.0ghz PowerPC cores and PowerPC is pretty established so it won't cost as much to manufacture as the Cell chip. With the hard drive thrown out, cost is even more down. Those thinking about getting the hard drive, Microsoft is selling 1 gig memory cards to go along with the xbox. I'd say that would last awhile, unless you're a total custom music whore.

PS2 was notorious for having a "not so developer friendly" architecture. Considering the hardware they're using, I'd expect the PS3 to have the same problem.
First, in the last article I read about the cell they talked about how cheap it was to make it, and because of its low cost and high power, will find its way into pretty much everything.

As to the PS3 being hard to develop for:


Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO--It's big, complicated and shares a fair amount of DNA with IBM servers, but there's no reason to be afraid of the Cell processor, Sony technicians told game developers on Wednesday.

That's because Cell, the chip that will power the next version of Sony's PlayStation video game console, will use programming tools that developers should already be familiar with and new tools that should allow them to work smarter, two researchers from Sony Computer Entertainment America said during a panel discussion at the Game Developers Conference here.

"The Cell is a complicated piece of machinery," said Mark DeLoura, manager of developer relations for SCEA. "What we can to do to make it easy for you, we'll do...We don't want to make you learn a new API (application programming interface) every time we come out with a new chip."
The rest here.
http://news.com.com/PlayStation+3+to...3-5606515.html
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post #19 of 44
3/10/05 at 9:07am
http://www.gamespot.com/

There's a pretty cool bit of demo video on the Xbox 2 here. They've got the right idea with some of these features. I particularly like the system-wide notifications and menu system.

I also find it interesting that the first thing we're hearing out of Microsoft on the Xbox 2 is not at all about the graphics, but the new features. The graphics being great are a given, yet Sony just can't shut the hell up about the Cell processor. I bet they don't even get to four controller ports this time around, let alone have any of this coolness.
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post #20 of 44
3/10/05 at 11:39am
I hope the built-in camera thing turns out to be rubbish. That's the sort of peripheral that should be an add-on, not packed with the system. Built-in cameras add, what, $30 to the cost of cell phones, right? And the cell phone industry is a lot more cost-efficient than the video game one.

It's the type of thing I neither want nor need. Hell, instead of the cameras, why not include an emulation of Halo 2 with every system sold (assuming you're not doing backwards-compatibility)? Or a second controller? Or even just a demo disc of upcoming games?
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post #21 of 44
3/10/05 at 11:49am
Because that would be common sense. A thing that hasn't been employed for a system's launch since 1992.
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post #22 of 44
3/10/05 at 11:54am
[QUOTE=Radb707 The blu-ray crap probably won't replace DVDs for another 5 to 10 years, considering that there's still many people who don't own a dvd player. Additionally, how many movies are made today in the blu-ray format??
[/quote]

Why is Blu-Ray crap? It's higher capacity storage, and if you have an HD TV, it makes perfect sense to have movies that use that resolution. I think it's great that we'll start seeing HD for movies you buy sooner rather than later.

Quote:
Xbox has three 3.0ghz PowerPC cores and PowerPC is pretty established so it won't cost as much to manufacture as the Cell chip. With the hard drive thrown out, cost is even more down. Those thinking about getting the hard drive, Microsoft is selling 1 gig memory cards to go along with the xbox. I'd say that would last awhile, unless you're a total custom music whore.
How do you know how much the Cell cost to manufacture? This is a multi purpose chip, so they're not going to be churning them out just for the PS3, also it wasn't developed soley by Sony. That should tell you something.

BTW It has a PowerPC instruction set ...

Quote:
PS2 was notorious for having a "not so developer friendly" architecture. Considering the hardware they're using, I'd expect the PS3 to have the same problem.
The hardware has little to do with it to a point, what's important is the development tools. Did they create better dev tools this round? I don't know, do you? Also, it doesn't matter in the end, game companies with half a brain will just develop to the biggest user base.
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post #23 of 44
3/10/05 at 12:00pm
The only question is what happens to those of us that don't have broadband.

Are we going to end up with a stream of games featuring short, ill-conceived single-player campaings?
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post #24 of 44
3/10/05 at 12:12pm
Thread Starter 
More from GDC.
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post #25 of 44
3/10/05 at 12:18pm
Quote:
"In the HD Era, the platform is bigger than the processor," Allard said. "New technology and emerging consumer forces will come together to enable the rock stars of game development to shake up the old establishment and redefine entertainment as we know it."
I wonder if this is just them getting ready to lose the hardware battle this round to Sony, it sure sounds like it to me.

Now this "HD Era of gaming" term is very annoying, but it's also kind of unfortunate seeing as how the system won't be able to display full length HD movies.

Some games in our current generation have already pushed the limits of dual layer DVDs (Gran Turismo 4 and Halo 2) and they're releasing an "HD Era" console without media to support the amount of content data that is going to be needed to feed these games. Seems like a mistake to me.
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post #26 of 44
3/10/05 at 12:32pm
"This is the era of HD gaming. We're still not going to include Monster component cables or digital surround cables with your console, but rest assured--for an extra sixty dollars, you WILL enter this new era."
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post #27 of 44
3/10/05 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastronikolas
The only question is what happens to those of us that don't have broadband.

Are we going to end up with a stream of games featuring short, ill-conceived single-player campaings?
Yes
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post #28 of 44
3/10/05 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanAmerica
The hardware has little to do with it to a point, what's important is the development tools. Did they create better dev tools this round? I don't know, do you? Also, it doesn't matter in the end, game companies with half a brain will just develop to the biggest user base.
Look up, I posted an article on this already.
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post #29 of 44
3/10/05 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerwinde
Look up, I posted an article on this already.
Now the only question is, do all those standardized tools work efficiently with the Cell architecture? We simply will not know that until the first and second volley of PS3 games have been developed.

The same can be said of the NextBox, of course.
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post #30 of 44
3/10/05 at 9:34pm
If anyone happens to pick up the current issue of Game Informer, you'll get a good look at what the next-generation can do. They have a cover story of SEGA's Condemned which is in development for both the Xbox 2 and PS3.

In a word: Amazing.

Just passing that on.
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post #31 of 44
3/10/05 at 9:55pm
I assume the Standard DVD format means that X box One games will be compatible with X Box 2?
I think that by the time HD or Blue Ray become standard, it's time for X Box 3 anyway.
It's interesting but most people I know who bought the X Box or PS 2 ended up buying a Straight up DVD player as well simply because of problems with the consoles when it came to playing movies. Almost every guy at game stores I have talked to told me use the X Box of PS 2 for games, a DVD player for movies.
I just got my X box this week, and am finally getting use to the controls in "Republic Commando".
IMHO Microsoft wants to do to Playstation what Microsoft did to Apple, and are willing to take a loss on the price of X Box 2 to undersell Playstation 3 and hope to make it back by getting a dominant market share.
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post #32 of 44
3/10/05 at 11:02pm
DVD movies I doubt have anything to do with the blu-ray/HD-DVD decision, since both HD-DVD and Blu-ray are backwards compatible with standard DVDs. Also, x-box backwards compatibility has more to do with the rest of the hardware in the system, like the GPU and CPU. I doubt the Xenon will not be backwards compatible, it would be a stupid move not to. I do think the decision to go with a regular DVD drive will hurt them at some point during this next generation, the storage capacity difference between regular and blu-ray is just too big (7GB for standard dual layer, 53GB I believe for Blu-Ray dual layer.)to not make a difference.
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post #33 of 44
3/11/05 at 9:45pm
There's one thing that I haven't seen covered...and that's the actual design of the Console itself. How is it going to look? This obviously isn't as important as what's inside of it, but I did a Google Image Search earlier and I saw at least 4 different images of what the respective sites were apparently claiming to be the XBOX2 (I say apparently because they were all foreign and I couldn't read them). So does anyone know of any place to get an actual picture of it?
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post #34 of 44
3/11/05 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGButler
There's one thing that I haven't seen covered...and that's the actual design of the Console itself. How is it going to look? This obviously isn't as important as what's inside of it, but I did a Google Image Search earlier and I saw at least 4 different images of what the respective sites were apparently claiming to be the XBOX2 (I say apparently because they were all foreign and I couldn't read them). So does anyone know of any place to get an actual picture of it?
I don't think they have formally released any yet. I would imagine we'll see stuff like that for E3 in May.
Personally I'm not picky on what it looks like as long as its not so damn heavy.
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post #35 of 44
3/11/05 at 11:39pm
i believe they have said before they will decrease the size of the box.

But if the Hard Drive is optional, who knows how big it will be with one.
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post #36 of 44
3/12/05 at 12:59am
I still say Microsoft is castrating the Xbox by trying to release their next system so soon. I don't own one myself, but to me it seems that the Xbox still hasn't quite met it's full potential. If MS is dead-set on getting the new one out at the end of this year, I certainly won't be picking up the current Xbox at all.
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post #37 of 44
3/13/05 at 4:55pm
Three xbox 2 games popped up in the computer at work yesterday with skus and prices.

Ultimate Spider Man

Call of Duty 2

Tony Hawk Underground 3

all at a retail price of $59.99. Yikes!
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post #38 of 44
3/13/05 at 9:40pm
Hmm, while those prices are almost entirely speculative I'm sure, it does raise a possibility I considered regarding the console price--that they would sell the hardware at a huge loss and hope to make up for it with a more incremental increase in software retail price. Thing is, if they had to do that just to sell the console at $300 I think it will backfire. But if the development costs aren't quite that steep and they just want to really aggressively price it at something like $150 or less, it's an interesting experiment.
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post #39 of 44
3/14/05 at 1:15am
Welp, when the PSP games showed up @ 49.99, everyone at the store assumed that was just a placeholder price and now here we are.

I will say that Half Life 2 and Doom 3 selling for 54.99 and selling quite well means that 49.99 isn't the ceiling anymore. It sucks, especially if you happen to buy like a "Drake of the 99 dragons" game for 60$. Ugh. John q Public wont stand for that for very long.

Anyway, theres 3 launch titles there for ya.
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post #40 of 44
3/14/05 at 4:55am
I remember Super Mario Brothers 2 selling for $70 at FAO Swartz in NYC when it came out. I mean it's fucked up, but we've really had it good this generation, with games generally being no more than $50. There's an article about Xbox 2 games on IGN, about price, that makes me want to slap the writer, but really, it is happening. Prices are going up, sad but true. Do what I do, and wait...
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post #41 of 44
3/14/05 at 12:24pm
Penny-Arcade comments on the Camera Feature:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php...05-03-14&res=h
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post #42 of 44
3/14/05 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 
Damn you Billy, I was coming to post the same thing.

And I could so see my friends and I doing stuff like that to each other. Camera is not a good idea in myopinion. Although, I think you might have a lot of grandparents buying X-Boxes so they could see their grandchildren online.
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post #43 of 44
3/14/05 at 5:42pm
or their grandchildren's balls.
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post #44 of 44
3/14/05 at 9:38pm
I think IGN said something about the hard drive will be needed to enable backwards capability, but then again its IGN.

I do think the disc format idea is terrible. Dvd-9 discs seem waay too much like a Nintendo idea. DVD-18 (this exsists right?) might work for a while. Isn't there a new format in development that has the laser move instead of the disc? It has a capacity up to 100 gigs. Come on Microsoft, buy them out, or at least go HD-DVD.

Someone mentioned blu-ray and HD-dvd being backwards compatible.
Don't you need the old laser for backwards compatibility? Wasn't it even speculated that early br and hd players were not going to be backwards compatible?

The camera idea is shitty. Just have a website where people can upload their own pictures, or hell have the thing as a separte eye toy rip off.

I honestly don't mind if the HD is sold separate, as long as adding it enables game caching like in xbox1.

How bout a controller with a tilt function (kinda like the kirby game boy games where you had to tilt the game boy)? It would be interesting to use the controller as a stearing wheel or use it strafe in fps.
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