SW Prequels Rock Catchall Thread

Is this a parody thread?

That's all well and good, however that's not my problem with the scene, which is: It's been ten years since Anakin left Shmi behind on Tatooine. TEN YEARS. I'm sorry but if I loved my mother that much, and knew she was living in slavery, I wouldn't wait an entire decade to do something about it. This is just another reason why Anakin has emerged as such a disappointing character in the Prequels.

I think it would have made more sense for Darth Maul to kill Shmi in EP1. Anakin competes in the pod race against her wishes, returns home victorious only to find Maul electrocuting Shmi with Sith lightning, having followed Qui-Gon's path to their hovel. Maul and Qui-Gon have a brief skirmish, Maul escapes, Shmi dies, leaving Anakin devastated with guilt, thus fueling his anger, hatred, fear and overall journey towards the Dark Side. Fast-forward to the end of JEDI, when Vader is watching Palpatine electrocute Luke. The haunting memory of Shmi's death would cut through all of the darkness and evil in Anakin/Vader's heart, thus motivating his return to the Light Side. I dunno...makes sense to me.

Wow, that's pretty good Litmus.

Good job, Litmus.

And, I have to commend Darth American on this thread. It's nice to see a positive counterpart to the destructive pesonalities that emerge elsewhere.

There's "destructive personalities" on both sides of this stupid little debate.

I'm not going to shit all over people's opinions, because really i don't care what you think of the prequels because you like what you like and it don't matter what other people think. So now i cleared that up, i think alot of people's problem is...these are more of the SW fans...that they planned out them whole fucking saga in their head. So as it didn't turn out the way they had always invisioned it, it sucks all mighty cock. Yes, i do agree some of the prequels got screwed and could be improved by maybe doing this or that. But ALOT is because these fans pretty much would have liked it to have been made the way THEY wanted it. Which is probably no doubt as flawed most of the time.

This thread wasn't what i was expecting though. I expected people to actualy come out and admitt they actualy found the prequels to be cool and enjoyable but no, we get a thread on Anakin's dream about his mother?? what's that all about?

Samuel L. Jackson rocks.

You seemed rather incapable of restricting your own brand of masturbatorial idiocy to outside of the "suck" catch-all thread, so why should anyone listen to you?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way, since it's obvious that people shouldn't.

One of my favorite prequel moments was the death of Darth Maul. Maybe I was the only one not expecting it, but I didn't think he was going to die so it was a total suprise. I was spoiled on Qui-Gon's death because of the stupid soundtrack (damn you!) but since I thought the Darth Maul "design" was so neat I didn't think Lucas would just off him so soon in the trilogy.

I also think Vader and the Emperor set a standard in the sage for cool villian voices, and for some reason, the voice actor they got for Maul had a great voice that went with the character. My only regret is that he only had what, 2 lines?!?!? ARRRGH.

I still laugh at the notion that I am "King Apologist".

Me. The guy who dissected and pummeled TPM and who started something called "The Star Wars Purists Society" in defiance of the Special Editions. The same guy who never once claimed AOTC (or any of the films, for that matter) was without flaw.

Look, just because I am not a cynic and I don't constantly use hyperbole to express how I feel about these films does not mean I am an "apologist". If anything, I'm one of the only open-fucking-minded people in these threads.

I also don't need to call someone "dumbass" simply because they view a movie a different way than I do.

Sorry for the rant. But this shit is old.

There are people on both sides that need to get bent, period.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the guy who did the voice of Darth Maul, play 'Dwayne' in the Brit sitcom Spaced, and also starred as 'Pete' in Shaun of the Dead? If so, then it makes his line in an episode of Spaced as cool as cucumbers...

"At last I will have revenge..."

Correct.

What absolute garbage.

1. Why on earth would Maul be electrocuting Shmi or anyone? Because that's what Sith do whenever they're kicking back or waiting for a bus?
And what a great way for rendering Anakins redemption near impotent. Instead of it being a sons desperate pleas to his father that snaps Anakin out of his Dark Side funk, it's him "hallucinating" that Luke is his Mother.

Great. So instead of Anakin *finally* maturing, you'd have Anakin regressing back to a little kid wanting his Mommy.

Totally pointless, and I can't help but think this firstly panders to the same crowd that digs seeing Maul resurrected with robot legs and secondly is a completely cackhanded use of mirroring.


2. There's *absolutely no way* Yoda would have given the go ahead for Anakin's Jedi training had a highly traumatised kid, frothing at the mouth with vengeful feelings been brought before him.

You are a tool. Fuck off.

He's torturing her for the location of Qui-Gon. Shmi's not giving it up in order to protect Anakin. So Maul unleashes Sith lightning on her. Pretty simple.

No, it's Vader/Anakin remembering the last time he lost a loved one and couldn't do anything about it. Now he finally can. Perfect redemption.

You mean like he did throughout much of EP2? By killing off Shmi in EP1, as I propose, Anakin's emotional umbilical cord is brutally cut right there and then, as an innocent child, thus forcing him into a much darker, more troubled adolecence, as befitting the character who will eventually become Darth Vader. You would prefer that teenaged Anakin whine about missing his mom...only after having done NOTHING about it for ten years? Talk about "garbage."

Yoda originally didn't want Anakin to be trained anyway. It was only through Qui-Gon's and then Obi-Wan's insistence that Anakin was allowed to become a Padawan. Perhaps they would sense that Anakin had great potential to be an all-powerful Jedi and needed to be trained and nurtured in the ways of the Light Side, instead of cutting him loose without guidence and possibly into the hands of the Sith. Yeah, real great idea.

Then again, given the unwarranted vitriol of your post, you're probably just trolling anyway, so nevermind.

Actually, that's a good point about him remembering how Shmi died kind of cheapeaning the impact of Vader seeing his son executed. It's not really a bad idea, but it does have it's downsides. I think the way it plays out in ROTJ doesn't need any change, and that would have changed it in my view. It's like trying to kill your son is fine, until he remembers his mother, I don't know ...

Anyways, I have really enjoyed these new movies, and I can't wait for ROTS. It's going to be very exciting, yet sad at the same time, because this will be the last Star Wars movie. It's turned out quite differntly that I ever imagined, but that's fine, I like to be surprised.

I wasn't propping up rottenjesus at all. Personally, I'd like to see the both of you either calm down or fuck on off. And, trust me, I am not alone on this. Not that you care.

So, being thick-headed, closed-minded and obnoxious is "consistent". Got ya.

Can I be the king?

I'm not saying the big scene in JEDI needs to be changed at all. It doesn't! It's perfectly fine as-is. It would just have more resonance and fall perfectly in line with Lucas' love of thematic repetition and the "rhyming" of key scenes. Look at the way the scene plays out now: Vader is clearly torn about what to do, looking back and forth between Luke and Palpatine, no doubt his inner self in furious conflict...the good in him fighting its way back to the surface. It's a powerful moment...essentially the climax of the entire Saga. And that's my point. By tying it back to the very beginning, the first powerful moment Anakin experienced (his loss of innocence) which sent him down the dark path, it makes perfect narrative sense and brings satisfactory closure to a character who, unfortunately, has been otherwise mishandled in the Prequels.

But all of this moot, anyway. What's done is done. But I'd interested in what DARTHAMERICAN has to say, since this was all in response to his original post.

Is Maul even capable of lightning?

If only monarchial rule were so easy! Dammit, Jason, you're gonna have to get into sword fights and kill people in order to become the king. Now here, take this weapon and go start chopping off some heads... keep it up for a couple weeks and maybe we'll all start bowing to you... or something.


... but only when enough people have been killed, dammit.

THAT is just your bitter opinion. END OF THE STORY. It's not fact, it's not the Gospel so stop acting like is.
You have your titties in a twist because you feel Lucas came in your face and you can't grow a pair and get over it. But you really need to. You act like some jilted boyfriend that just won't let it die.

Since you hate these movies so, WHY do you stalk everyone in these threads just to say "THEY SUCK!", kinda pathetic if you ask me. Having an opinion is one thing, but to repeat ad nausem the same tired misinformed crap should get tiresome. Just me I guess.

Do you go to church on sundays and tell everyone there is no god? I bet you hang around the pediatric cancer ward during christmas just to tell the kiddies Santa Clause is myth.

If you can't like it no one can, eh?

Leave it alone. Go away and deal with it.


Where was this outrage and passion when idiot George Bush the sequel was being elected?

When I dislike something I just cut it off and leave it alone. Why can't you do the same? Oh yeah, because you are a fucking tool.


First, you need to apologize to Carl.

Well, Dooku is capable of it and he's Palpatine's apprentice, as Maul was. Then again, I liked it better when only Palpatine had lightning. It made him more like the Sith Super Boss. Dooku having that power suggests that any well-trained Sith apprentice could do the same. Strange that Vader never used this. (Actually, it's not strange at all. It's just another inconsistency between PT rules and OT rules, much like Artoo conveniently being able to fly all of a sudden in EP2.)

Carl did all that? RJ has almost done all that? "The keyboard is mightier then the sword!"

Okay, here's my "stab at it." I think the prequels have been really fun. I think most of you, mainly the people who call people terms such as "apologist," are anal weirdoes who look too deeply into a very shallow pond, ignore the big picture, and whine over the smaller ones you have zeroed in on.

King me motherfucker!

It's official, RJ is my Darth Maul.

I'm gonna venture to say that Vader didn't use any lightning because his limbs were artificial and he obviously ran the risk of shorting out his own suit.

I think had Maul been capable of lightning, he woulda used it. Why would he hold back? He coulda just fried Obi whilst he was hanging on down there. Gotta assume he didn't have that ability.

I love the prequels, and I love the Clone Wars series even more. They have a different objective to episodes IV-VI, and that is to detail the backstory and the political intrigue that enrich the Star Wars universe. They wear their flaws on their sleeve, but Star Wars always has. I just enjoy the colorful action of heroes, anti-heroes and villains swinging lightsabers. I also love that the prequels take in a different, more beautiful universe than what we knew before -- new costumes, creatures, droids and spaceships. I'm past thinking that these movies suck and I'm beyond arguing with people about whether or not they suck. It is possible to recognize every one of the flaws people find in something, not care and love it anyway.

Litmus stop being so defensive, or did your parents never allow you to play in the mud? If you’re proposing an idea then you should also be able to handle a strong critique, after all, isn’t critiquing fundamental to CHUD?
Not only did I think your ideas were bad in a fanfic way I thought they undermined important elements of the saga as a whole, that’s probably why the tone was rough.

Look, it’s too convoluted, somehow Maul can discern one set of footprints (Qui Gons) amongst the busy and sandy Mos Espa streets, but only up to Anakins hovel? Even if you were to contrive another method to orchestrate Mauls torturing of Shmi, why Sith lightning? What makes you think Maul is capable of Sith lightning? He had perfect opportunity and demonstrated an appropriate vindictive nature to give Obi a satisfying jolt or two as he clung for dear life toward the end of the three-way duel, yet he didn’t.

Maul never struck me as one privvy to the deeper secrets of Sith knowledge, he was just the right tool for the right moment and likely would have been gladly forfeited by Sidious for a more worthy student such as Dooku. Maul was just a punk, all cool tats, cool saber, and some cool moves but ultimately that wasn’t enough because he didn’t last long, and that perhaps is a wry comment by Lucas on how transitory and insubstantial "cool" actually is in the order of things.

But the crux of it is, it’s too traumatic an experience for Anakin to witness. It stops the story in its tracks. Right there and then at 9 years old, Anakin essentially IS Darth Vader, but without the Jedi training. And I repeat there is *no way* he’d be taken on as a Padawan in that state.


Anakin being too old and missing his mother is a whole ocean of difference to Anakin being too old and witnessing his own mother being fried to death by a sadistic tormentor.
They wouldn’t train him, plain and simple, they would likely keep an eye on him, but that’s it.

Anakins fate is a gradual process resulting from a combination of events such as arrogance, repression, and circumstance, which personally on a storytelling level, I find far more interesting than him essentially turning into Darth Vader within a fingersnap because of one event.



Well from TPM we can derive that Anakin dreamt of seeing places other than Tatooine and of being a Jedi, as well as his desire to be the best, all of which no doubt motivated and distracted him for a good while on Coruscant. The point you’re missing is that Anakin is desperately trying to be the good committed Jedi and comes to realise it’s at odds with his feelings. This passage of time is also setting up resentment toward the Jedi for him having to reject a whole side of himself that he feels is important and eventually leads to his first defiance of the Jedi Order by sneaking behind their back and going to Tatooine.

This impulsiveness of Anakin that leads him to Tatooine bears fruit when he finds his mother in a distressed state and realises that his dreams are prophetic. The whole “he’s holding me back” speech post Tusken slaughter can be referenced against Obi-Wan effectively telling Anakin not to pay attention to his dreams.

It would appear to Anakin then that Obi-Wan/the Jedi Order do not want him to utilise or develop this particular Force talent. And so after an initial act of defiance there is now the seeds of distrust toward the Jedi.

These are small but important steps that will lead to a kind natured child becoming ruthless murderer.



That scene does not require anymore resonance; it’s one of the most powerful scenes in the saga. To me you’re rhyming for the sake of rhyming, and it undermines the fundamental change occurring as Vader transforms to Anakin, that’s why I see it as cackhanded.
This isn’t Anakin pontificating or acting on past memories, this is Anakin acting in the now for the first time ever, bridging the divide from the Dark Side to the Light. Memories are not his motivation here; memories are the chain that keep Vader imprisoned in the Dark Side, guilt at leaving his mother, anger at the Jedi for their suspicion, sadness at lost love. On Endor Luke appeals to Vader’s memory of who he was and hits a brick wall.


Says Qui-Gon:

- "Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs."


- "Remember, concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Trust your instincts. "


Only Luke’s desperate pleas to who Vader is(his Father) are able bring Anakin out of the past and into the moment. Anakin has a moment of clarity, he becomes totally at one with himself completely outside of his memories, and feels love for his son and protects him. The balance of the Force is restored.

Yeah, that could really ruin his day, couldn't it? You make a fair point but I honestly think it really just boils down to Lucas coming up with Sith lightning strictly as a superpower for Palpatine in JEDI but then later needing something special for Dooku in EP2, and conveniently using it again, thus at least opening up the possiblity that any Sith can use it.

Oh, I agree. But again, I think Lucas opened up a new can of worms with Dooku. More inconsistent writing and rule-setting, in my opinion. I really wish Lucas had just kept Maul alive as the physical villain of all three Prequels and forgone the need for Dooku altogether. Imagine if Maul had killed Shmi in EP1, the wonderful payoff there would be with Anakin giving into hate and killing Maul in EP3. To me, the Prequels feel like they're filled with guest stars, not longterm characters growing over a developing three-film story arc, like in the OT.

Oh no, Coffinrock is mad. Everybody RUN!

Apologist? Ok, I'll play. Been called a lot worse. If someone is stupid enough to call another an apologist in regards to art (it is subjective afterall) , then I'll humor their retarded ass.

Being an apologist is at least fun. At least I'm not constantly whining and being a bitter, heartbroken little twat over something as trivial as a pair of movies.

Get a life Coffincock and go swallow a fucking turd and die.

That's actually a great idea.

Nice interpretation. I agree.

I like that this thread is absolutely NO different than the "Prequels Suck catchall thread" in any way, shape or form.

It's like an unspoken commentary on Star Wars discussion.

Well there you went and ruined it by speaking about it.

I don't see why Darth Maul not shooting "Force Lightining" is inconsistent at all.

It's already been shown that there are different levels of mastery of the force, and different lightsaber fighting styles. This is a non-issue.

From what was shown in TPM, it seems to me that even if Darth Maul knew how to do Force lighthing, he wouldn't use it much as he seemed to really like his swordplay.

After I posted my alternate "Maul kills Shmi" scenario, Glitch asked, "Is Maul even capable of lightning?" Since Maul doesn't use this power at all in EP1, there's no way of knowing for sure but since fellow Sith apprentice Dooku used it, it's a power that's no longer exclusively Palpatine's (as had been previously established up until EP2.) As such, all I'm suggesting is that Maul could be capable of it. And since one apprentice uses this power and yet others don't, I think that's inconsistent. I'm not saying it's BAD. I'm just saying there's no way to conclusively know because a consistent set of rules has not been adhered to. And since Lucas has been making (and remaking) up the rules as he goes, I think there's plenty of room for discussion, especially if it would have resulted in a more challenging and ultimately more satisfying journey for Anakin.

Just because Maul doesn't use Sith lightning doesn't automatically mean that he can't use Sith lightning. After all, none of us knew that the Millenium Falcon had a laser cannon hidden underneath until the damn thing dropped into action and laid waste to a squad of Snowtroopers on Hoth...and how goddamn cool was that?

What, like your "Anakin-to-Vader-in-a-flash" scenario? You know that really isn't satisfying or clever storytelling. Unless you subscribe to the Paul Anderson school of "but ain't it cool!" cinema, that is.

There's no inconsistency here. He just doesn't use it, it's not important to the story if he can or not, just that he's really good with lightsabers and can move stuff like other Jedi.

One Sith apprentice is shown using a power that only a Sith master had shown before. Other Sith apprentices aren't shown using this power. That's inconsistent. All Jedi and Sith use lightsabers. That's consistent. I think you're simply assuming that by "inconsistent" I mean "bad." I don't.

Yeah, I suck like that sometimes

Besides, it's not like anyone's reading. "The Prequels Rock" thread has turned into a dissertation on whether Maul can shoot lightning.

I heard he can shoot laser beams from his eye balls. That's why they are orange. Anakin was always jealous of this power and requested it from Sidious. But when he became Darth Vader, he couldn't use his own eyes and that's why you never see him use the power. He was going to kill Luke during the "let me look upon you with my own eyes" scene, but then Lucas changed his mind.

The Prequels rock. In a sucky kind of way.

Shades of the Algonquin Roundtable. .....

Apparently you do begrudge people or you wouldn't be hear screaming like a three-year old who can't have his way.

That's your fucking opinion. A well-made film is up for the individual to decide. MOST people, including Star Wars fans have their own ideas on what makes a well-made film, they don't need some internet stump screaming in their ear about what makes a good film.

Most people would say "Chinatown' is a well-made film, I guess so, but it's a fucking big bore to me. "Nashville" is hailed by criticis everywhere as a masterpiece. Not for me, too long, too many characters I didn't care about, plus I hate Robert Altman.

See how it works, Skippy.

Warts and all, I THINK the prequels are just fine for what they are. DO NOT take the holier than thou stance and act like you are somehow superior to everyone else who thinks the same. You don't care for them, fine. Move on and get a fucking life. Find something you actually find interesting and you might get something more out of life instead of cursing Lucas and burning his image in effigy.

Opinions are fine, but when you start acting like yours is somehow better than everyones, then we have a problem and that is why you really need to swallow that turd.

OMG Star Wars.

Come on guys, why is ANY of this worth getting angry with eachother about?

I'd like to read your words of wisdom Coffnrock, but the blue font on black background will probably give me eye cancer. My loss, I know.

Blue text on black background? Must be your subconscious trying to save us from reading further inane rantings from you.

Thanks!

Fixed, the blue on black text almost blinded me.