The Difference between Anakin and Vader: (Spoilers)

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79156

I mean, it's a SLIGHTLY different topic, but it would probably be simpler if you discussed this in that thread, just so it's all together.

I'm trying not to play thread nazi here, but there are already soooooo many star wars threads.

Obi-Wan is an old man that hasn't practiced his skills for 20 years. Not to mention that he allowed Vader to "win", since he learned the trick to cheat death.

Not to mention that Vader is slow in the OT and gets his ass handed by a rookie with daddy issues and a creepy love for his sister.

He is not as powerful as we thought. He is only powerful by default, since he's pretty much the only surviving Jedi.

And Anakin is supposed to be really powerful during Sith.

But are we going to be shown that or just told it?

I'm expecting the latter.

We've been told how powerful Anakin is. We've had it spoken to us by characters in boring bits and pieces of stilted dialogue. But the audience has seen nothing of it. The character we've been presented with isn't the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy. He's a whiny puss.

The Clone Wars Anakin is a badass, powerful Jedi. That's the Anakin I believe could turn into Vader. The prequels Anakin is just a petulant child.

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Well, during the first ten minutes, he demonstrates his prowess as a fighter pilot, saves Obi Wan's life, fights his way throught the separatist mothership and chops off Dooku's head.
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How is that any different from what Obi Wan has done in the prequels? Or what any of the million bajillion Jedi have done in Clone Wars? It doesn't sound any more exciting or impressive to me.

That's the main problem with the prequels. Lucas tells us everything and shows us nothing. Those movies were supposed to be about Anakin but for two movies now he's done nothing but whining. We've seen no real power or talent from him. Hell, if it weren't for Clone Wars, I doubt I'd know what a real powerfull jedi is like.

Anakin should have been a teenager in the Episode 1 and in Episode 2, he should have started to show unbelivable power and no self-control.

I don't think Clone Wars can really be any kind of reference, because it's a purposely crazy cartoon. I mean, I doubt Mace would ever fistfight with super battle droids in the movies.

To an extent, I agree. But then, seeing Yoda directing the course of ships, lifting dozens of droids into the air, all through the Force.. that's how I always imagined a powerful Jedi to be. Anakin's infiltration and subsequent destruction of that fortress full of Wat Tambors (I keep forgetting their proper names) showed me a resourceful, cunning, and most importantly dangerous Jedi that we've not seen in the films proper. And I honestly don't believe we'll see it in Revenge of the Sith. We're just going to see OMG TEH DUEEL!!!!!!111!, and that will apparently be enough for some people.

I see where you're coming from, although I don't think it'll just be the duel. Based on the audio novel I've been listening to, he does some crazy shit, especially in the beginning.

Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised. My friends and I long ago resigned ourselves to seeing Episode III for finality's sake, but I can't say that any of us are really expecting much more than the duel at this point.

Why wouldn'y he? Before I saw that sequence and the one where Yoda moves the ships, I never saw the power and relevance of the Jedis in the Star Wars universe. Yes a lightsaber is cool as hell, but what use can a jedi be against an army who fights with stardestroyers? Ooooohh! They can move junk with their mind! What could a squad of Navy Seals do against a pack of F-16s?

At least in Clone Wars I felt like the Jedis were a real powerfull force.

The opening act is definitely meant to set up how much Anakin has grown through these three years of war. He should come off as a fantastic specimen/warrior. He should come off as an adult.

It's also supposed to showcase what a great TEAM Skywalker and Kenobi have become. Their different strengths and weaknesses, how they complement each other. They aren't master/padawan any longer They are friends/allies.

Once Palpatine slyly goads Anakin's anger to come out, he's going to completely own Dooku. No small feat. This will be the audience's first taste of what Darkside Anakin can manifest. Of course, Obi-Wan will be unconscious and experience none of this. But the audience will.

When Anakin goes darkside later, he's gonna be scarily powerful. The audience will fear for Obi-Wan during most of duel. Lucas will set this up because it makes his lava experience that much greater a fall....


Oh, how the mighty has fallen....


Remember that Anakin's darkside trip is building to the ambition of ultimately taking out Sidious, and becoming ruler of the galaxy. It's his warped way of justifying the terrible and selfish choices he's carried out

(Yes, I've made a pact with evil...but I will ensure my family's safety....and I will bring order to this galaxy by one day taking out that motherfucker....then I will rule...bwahahahahah!)

The lava experience creates a huge set back to that plan.....

So essentially, Episode III is the only worthwhile part of Anakin's story?

Well, it seems Lucas has structured his prequel trilogy as two parallel stories told in 3 acts:


EP1: Childhood innocence/Twilight of the Old Republic


EP2: Teenage angst/Fall of the Republic


EP3: Adult Tragedy/Rise of the Empire



TPM is meant to showcase the Republic before Palpatine took control. You have a middle class planet like Naboo showcased. You have a lower class one in Tatooine. And of course, the upper class, Coruscant.


Then you showcase a Jedi Knight (Qui-Gon) very similar to the Jedi we imagined based on the OT. We experience his conflict with the staid Jedi order. We observe how he is involved with an event which showcases the corruption of the political sphere in the old Republic. We see his obsession regarding a special, little boy on dirtwater planet. We see how the main textual plot of the narrative is basically just a hidden step one in the recently emerged Sith's plan to destroy the Jedi and rule the galaxy.


Most importantly, we see Anakin make the fateful choice of leaving his mother at the tender age of 9.


Of course, there's also:

-introducing the future mother of the Skywalkers, and her first meeting with Anakin.

-introducing Obi-Wan and detailing his relationship with his master (for future parallels/contrasts when Anakin becomes his pupil)

-Introducing the senate and Jedi council.


I think there is a sweet and giddy fun/innocence to much of TPM that is supposed to ultimately (from an overview perspective) contrast strikingly with EP3's tragic and dark tone.


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AOTC basically details the end of the democratic Republic through the emergency powers given to Palpatine at the time of a "crisis" - ie: The beginning of the Clone War.


Through that story (triggered by the Obi-Wan sleuthing segment of the film), we begin to see the flaws within Anakin's personality that will come back to haunt him in adulthood. The purpose of Anakin's separation from his mother and his dynamic within the Jedi order, is meant to accentuate primal human fears we all must face. Anakin has serious attachment issues in an order that completely (and even, radically) guards against these type of feelings and emotions (They fear it the path to the darkside, etc...). Anakin wasn't taken from birth like other Jedi, so this makes his teenage trip within this order, that much more exaggerated.

Anakin's bonding with his childhood memory (Padme), his tragic reconciliation with his mother, and his "emotional issues" regarding attachment and the fear of loss, are inextricably entwined - foreshadowing the dark fate of this couple.


The film also sets up:

- a "fallen Jedi"/Sith apprentice (the leader of the Confederacy) foreshadowing the future fall of another pivotal Jedi.

-Padme's senatorial career.






And with all of the above, it has some fun sights and sounds.