Rottenjesus vs coffnrock thread: The Ultimate Apologist vs Cynical Hater Battle  

Two men enter, one man leaves!

The winner gets George Lucas for one entire night. No questions asked.

I have no idea who those people are.

To the victor goes the goiter...err....spoils.

They are but faceless warriors, fighting for the very soul of geekdom. honour them.

I promise to check in everyday, if they show up.

My vote? TO THE DEATH!

What does that leave then? Star Wars fans usually are some form of childish bullshitter.

Lets Get Ready To Ruuuuuuummmmmmbbbbbblllllllleeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't there an 'ignore user' feature on this bitch somewhere? Seems a lot easier than threads about threads about dicks in threads.

Carl... it's.. it's like you saw a hornet's nest on the ground...

Not only did you pick it up, but you smeared honey all over your dick and tried to have sex with it.

Why did you do this, Carl?

Where's the fun in that? To the death, I say!

Since when do hornets make honey??,,,,oh, you never said that...mea culpa...

Let's get this bitch rollin' - Mortal Kombatants!!! - What do you hate the most in the PT or love the most?

FIGHT!

Rottenjesus and Coffnrock have become franchises?

I’ve been told the movie business is going to hell in a handbasket, but never in my worst nightmares did I think the demise could be this rapid.

Your quote is a completely perfect example of the problem with RJ and cr, and is the reason that every thread is derailed by these two and their "beliefs" about the PT.

You start off by making a good point, stating the case you are going to make with your argument, and then you go on the attack. You resort to name calling and assumptions that do not further your argument, but serve only to belittle any point you're trying to make.

That's why no one wants to hear RJ or cr in a Star Wars thread. It has nothing to do with talking about movies. It has to do with fanatical spouting of personal opinions, with no possibility of rebuttal.

If only we could keep them locked in this thread, sort of like a Phantom Zone for Star Wars fanatics.

That would be AWESOME.

Neither one gets it.
It's not their individual stance vis a vis the prequels that is the issue, but that they are such assholes in the way they voice it.
Rottenjesus is the worst offender of the two, but coffinrock has more then his share of asshole moments also.

Round 1 scorecard... Rottenjesus 9, coffnrock 9.

Round 2.... BEGIN!

"Faster, more intense."

Lie much?

Regardless of what side anyone is on here, I think coffnrock is way out there with the hatred. He’s just purely hateful as a matter of fact. RJ on the other hand usually is coming back tongue in check… sometimes. He does post pics he finds occasionally as well. I think RJ does contribute to the topic at hand whereas coffnrock is purely hostile. It has nothing to do with being part of the “All Girls Apologist Fun Club” either. I’m buds with the people that hate the films like poopoodle, whereas coffnrock crazy. I've never seen someone say "Yeah, I didn't care for Qui-Gon" and then RJ go nuts. It's usually shit like "Qui-Gon isn't cool like Neo and Frodo" that makes RJ say anything.

But in truth, it wouldn't be the same without them here.

In other words, he hates it and is therefore a hater. What part of that don´t you understand?

Could we have this changed to "The Roach Motel - two check in, but they don´t check out"?

In this case I think coffn probably has a greater advantage seen as his only job is to pick at a series of films which aside from asthetics are flawed at best. It does seem a little strange that there is a need for a thread like this, or is objectivity something to be avoided in movie discussions. It seems that coff and rj represent the alpha and omega on the PTs.

I think it is probably an age thing as I am asuming that RJ would have maybe only seen RotJ in the cinemas due to his age and as such he shares something with me in that the PT is his cinematic trilogy.

Still coff's ageist comments and generally sneery attitude to other peoples posts makes me really want to see him burn in some e-hell.... where people don't use punctuation, discussions are inspid, and ghey is rampant.... maybe he should be exhiled to gamefaqs....

I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy....no way Jose! How about theForce.net?

The only thing he couldn't do was not rock out! Preach it!

Um, how would one know whether or not something is offensive unless one reads it? Precognition?

The issue here isn't that people have contrary opinions.

The issue here is that a few of these people are malodorous, sopping cunts and nobody likes them, and they're really not very welcome here anymore.

Good. I hope it did. I hope they fucking cry about it, and then get over it, and either leave and not come back, or grow the fuck up.

Of all of the different types of apologist tactics out there, I most admire Mecha Superior's. When someone (like myself) airs any kind of criticism over the Prequels or responds in equal measure to apologist insults, Mecha usually chimes in right away. Not with more argument...but with new photos, artwork or merchandise images from EP3. He checks critical negativity with benign positivity, unlike others who engage in personal insults, hypocritical lectures or who laughingly attempt to marginalize opposing opinion. It's just a shame that Mecha's thoughtfully detailed essays in defense of Lucas' themes and subtext are often based on EU or off-screen reference material. I almost wish Mecha could have written the Prequels because it's obvious he's put more thought into them than George has.

I honestly envy most apologists. I wish I could buy wholesale into the Prequels and enjoy them for what they are. But as someone who was there at the very beginning and someone who has invested so much love and concern into this once-great franchise, I don't think I'm either cynical or filled with hate. I'm just sadly disillusioned about the Prequels, the way any loved one would be if you seriously disappointed them after displaying such tremendous promise. If anything, I'm guilty of having been too optimistic, too hopeful, too idealistic, too invested... Much like how the tables of light and dark have turned in the Prequels, so too have they seemingly turned in SW fandom. Too bad that threads like this tend to only broaden the rift and deepen the hate.

You mean Lucas didn't write all six scripts in the 70's?
I tought he said he did?

Carl doesn't need to get you banned. You're doing a bang-up job of that yourself. There's already a long list of people who have asked for both you and Rottenjesus to be removed from the boards.

And right now I'm a heartbeat away from making their wishes come true.

If you want to be banned, then just keep going the way you are.

***as I prepared to write this post Duel of the Fates decided to play itself on Winamp.. the only star wars song in a playlist of 400 and it randomly plays itself...***

Anyways as I have stated before I think the big problem with the PT is a lack of tonal consistency. The OT was a saga for kids, it was high adventure with touches of darkness to make it that much more exciting. But on the whole the movies were aimed at an age group of under 20s.

The problem with the PT in my view is that it seems conflicted between being for the kids like the OT and pandering to the 40 somethings who circled cinemas back in the 1970s. In the end you just emerge with two films that are wildly different. The Phantom Menace is designed for the kids and is tonally similar to the OT in many ways. AotC however strives to be too clever in some places and is deathly dull for it, kids love the second half but find the first hour insanely boring. RotS in some ways is an excercise in pandering to fanboys. It is like Lucas gave up his ambition to direct a saga of pulp sci-fi and is basically making a film to appease the bloodlust of the middle aged 'original' fans. The only way he could pander anymore is if Anakin beat Jar-Jar to death with his own intestinal track.

That doesn't mean that I don't love the films I find Lucas to be a visionary with regards to his visual style and character design.

It just seems to me that a lot of (and I hate to use the term) cynics simply don't like the PT for its kiddy elements when the saga has always been designed for kids.

A real martyr.

Don Quixote, Mr. IQ.

Buh-bye.

Thanks for playing. Goodnight.

When that picture came out, my best friend and I came up with a caption for that photo.

"Over those dunes, about 16 miles, over that sand dune is a McDonalds. Rick want's a number 5, with a sprite. I want a double quarter pounder with a diet coke (I'm on a diet), but ask them if the McRib is back. Oh yeah, and super size that."

"George, I just want to say that I really enjoyed shooting this prequel with you, and that even though I won't necessarily be considered for the part of Anakin as a teenager, when the time comes, I want you to let me shoot a screentest."
"We're not done. We've still got one scene left to shoot."
"Oh, cool!"
"See that cave over there?"
"Yeah. At the bottom of that dune?"
"Yeah. Go in that cave. We're going to shoot it in there."
"What's in there? Is it like Empire? Is it only what I take with me?"
"Um, yeah. That's it. Go ahead."
"Wow, like then I'm going to get in a fight with a vision, of like Darth Vader, and stuff?"
"...yeah. So, go ahead and go. Uh, but you won't need that water bottle. Give me that."
"Okay."
"So, bye, George."
"Bye."

Damn, beat me to it.....
I have now revised my opinion. RJ and Coffin are equals in assholedom,they have both ceased to have entertaiment value, and it's time to pull the trigger on both.

How about you just stop being such a useless twat?

Fellas - this thread.... It's isn't working for me... I gotta have more cowbell....

The hatred of these people for one another has blinded them to the fact that they are each rather clever in their own way. No one arguing here is a complete moron except in the eyes of their bitter enemy. My take on the personalities:

Carl: All of his enthusiasm for the prequels is limited by and filtered through disclaimers, caveats, what have you, regarding his "cautious optimism." I have never found him boastful in any way but he is undeniably a font of information and his position thus has hemmed him in a bit as other posters are constantly asking for his opinion on all matters Star Wars, begging for more info, etc. I think that environment may have contributed to the erroneous perception that he is some kind of jerk. Still, he's obviously not above a brave jab now and then, this thread being a prime example. I don't think a high post count is a license to say anything you want around here, but considering that I try to play it safe being relatively new, I can understand that there is a level of comfort and respect due for having been around here so long.

rottenjesus: This guy can say outrageous things but I do get a sense that alot of it is tongue-in-cheek, as he says. The thing about his effusive praise of the prequels is that it comes out undisguised as a very personal feeling toward the films. He has acknowledged the flaws in all the films, but he loves, loves, loves them anyway, because they rock, etc. Look at his reviews of the first two prequels. They devote most of their space to putting into personal context his experience with the films, rather than praising them on some sort of objective level. He's just very vocally expressing his love for the films, and making enemies along the way. Not defending, just my take.

coffnrock: Seems like he is trying to convince the people he calls "apologists" (a bizarre phrase which implies that prequel lovers secretly think the prequels are crappy but are embarrassed about it, or just in love with Lucas, when in actuality, from their point of view, they have nothing to apologize for, since they think the movies are good) of the "objective" truth of the prequels' failure as films. Yes, there is a place for objective critisicm in all forms of art, but one cannot engage in that while claiming to be the possessor of that ultimate, objective truth. In arguing film, one can only state one's opinions about what a film should be and how it does or does not live up to those expectations and hope that there is a consensus of opinion eventually. With great art (and with abysmal art as well, though that is soon forgotten) it takes time for that kind of consensus to form. And even today it is likely that a lover of Kandinsky of Klee might find the Mona Lisa boring (just an example-- I like them all, and think Da Vinci was a genius). But phrases like this:
That's hypocritical. Taking cheap potshots at the films while promoting rational discussion does not further the cause. Besides, the logic of the statement is dubious, because the idea that objectivity does have a place in the discussion does not automatically mean the films are poorly made, does it?

And coffnrock, since I'm being critical of you, let me address you directly (I don't mean to be overly rude): I understand your criticisms of the films in so far as they didn't live up to your standards, I just don't agree with them. I just wish that you wouldn't blindly insist that your standards are the real and true standards by which we ALL should judge the prequels. There is no denying that many share your standards. But don't let that fool you into thinking that validates an objectivity that is tenuous (for all of us) at best.