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Sith Gets a PG-13

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
Aint-It-Cool is reporting that the MPAA has officially given ROTS a PG-13.

Personally I don't think it means much of anything, as he's made more money than god for the industry and I'm sure they'd be more happy to give him any rating he wants (sort of like a reverse ROTK, an R in PG-13 clothing). It gets him plenty of publicity and it gets people talking about restored faith in a dead franchise and how he's on the "right track" again, etc., etc., etc. I'm sure he's thrown in just enough for the rating, but darker hardly means better and all the Jedi on Jedi violence can't make up for the atrocious dialogue, acting, CGI, crap ideas, <insert one of the many awful things about the trilogy here>...

Of course, I'm a cynical prick and dislike anything that has come from Star Wars (including the Clone Wars cartoon and KOTOR, although I will admit they had cool ideas and I don't doubt for a second that there heart wasn't in the right place), but I just thought it was worthy of a semi-intelligent discussion and while I'm hardly the person to instigate such a thing I saw nothing on Chud regarding such things.
post #2 of 45
I expected as much.

I have no doubt that it had a lot to do with marketing, but I'm not sold on the idea that he could have got any rating possible, at least from what I've seen. I mean, ANH had a couple of burning skeletons but imagine seeing Beru and Owen burning close-up. That's kinda harsh for some of the kiddies.

I just hope this doesn't have a bad effect on the UK rating. PG-13s can go either way (12A or 15), and while LOTR all got 12As I believe, I think seeing someone on-screen burning to near death might present a problem for our better but still sometimes reactionary ratings board. Because if it gets a 15, it might be cut to get it down to a 12A, after all, ATTACK OF THE CLONES was trimmed of a headbutt to get it to PG, because the BBFC don't like headbutts (I believe the same happened in FOTR).
post #3 of 45
Actually, in Fellowship, the headbutt was left in because it was done by a nonhuman character.

Really, this was pretty much expected so there's not a whole lot to talk about. The reason is kinda cool, though. REVENGE OF THE SITH is PG-13 for “sci-fi violence and some intense images.” The intesnse images, I'm sure indicate shots of Anakin being all burned up.
post #4 of 45
AOTC felt like a PG-13 movie to me anyway. This should surprise no one, especially considering that the Original Trilogy, ESB at least, probably would have been PG-13 too had the rating existed before 1984 or whenever.
post #5 of 45
When I was a kid, I had the poster for Return of the Jedi. It had a box that said "may be too intense for younger children." Come to think, Luke being electrocuted for 10 minutes was a little intense for me.
post #6 of 45
learned this and got the soundtrack all in the same day...not that bad of a day really :-D
post #7 of 45
I wonder how younger kids are going to react to this movie. My best friends son is 7 and he loves the first two prequals and looks at Anakin as one of the hero's. I don't think he understands Anakin is Darth Vader and I am worried how he will react to his transition. I do agree that Empire and mabey even ANH (with the crispy fried Owen and Beru) would be given a PG-13 rating if released these days.
post #8 of 45
I hope Obi Wan drops the F-bomb.

Just once.

That's all I want.
post #9 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by talentjones
atrocious dialogue, acting, CGI, crap ideas, <insert one of the many awful things about the trilogy here>
/signed
post #10 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexc.
Come to think, Luke being electrocuted for 10 minutes was a little intense for me.
10 minutes?
What cut did you see?
post #11 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Helix
I hope Obi Wan drops the F-bomb.

Just once.

That's all I want.
I think I would pass out laughing if he did that. It would be worth the whole movie being shit for that.
post #12 of 45
"Turned to the Dark Side, young Skywalker has."

"Well fuck me!"
post #13 of 45
"Fuck you! You were supposed to be the chosen one!"
post #14 of 45
Ratings were weird back in the day (more weird than now). PLANET OF THE APES got a rating of G back in 1968 even though there was a lot of violence, swearing and Charelton Heston constantly naked. What did you have to do to get an M rating back then?

-Bradius
post #15 of 45
Penetration.

Thank whatever God you worship that Planet of the Apes had none of that
post #16 of 45
"But it's not over yet."

"Yes it is. Palpatine will declare himself Emperor. The Jedi will be defeated in the Senate, allowing Palpatine and Anakin to start hunting us down on Coruscant... then Naboo... then Alderaan... then on to Endor and The Outer Rim and finally the Kessell Run...

...Fuck."
post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl Zero
Penetration.

Thank whatever God you worship that Planet of the Apes had none of that
"Get your filthy dicks outta me you damn dirty apes..."

yeah, that works too...
post #18 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl Zero
AOTC felt like a PG-13 movie to me anyway. This should surprise no one, especially considering that the Original Trilogy, ESB at least, probably would have been PG-13 too had the rating existed before 1984 or whenever.

Carl can correct me if Im wrong, but I believe the Special Editions of the OT had to be re-submitted to the MPAA in 1997 for a new rating. As we all know, they still came out as PG. Even if that is not true, I dont think the OT would have received a PG-13 even now. Espeacially if you take away Dr. Evazon's blood in ANH.

Hey, if Top Gun was able to get away with a PG in 1986, there is now way in hell the OT would have gotten a PG-13.
post #19 of 45
offtopic, but anybody know what Coppola thought about the other 2 prequel films?

He voiced his opinion over the weekend on Sith, and it's kind of interesting ...
post #20 of 45
If you want to see the most bewildering PG ever, rent Omega Man. Moses sniping mutants from his window, full frontal nudity, and the end of the world--yeah, my parents took me to that when I was about 6 and we had to leave 30 minutes into it. So it's no surprise that a few moments of violence in ANH would leave it as a G in 1977.

And everyone knows, if there's an f-bomb in Sith, it needs to come from Sam Jackson, the king of the F-bomb.
post #21 of 45
See, but it won't be awesomely hilarious if it comes from where it's expected.
post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Helix
See, but it won't be awesomely hilarious if it comes from where it's expected.
From a few weeks ago in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fett
'Obi-Wan, You fucking asshole!'
'Hahaha! I find your lack of limbs disturbing, Padawan.
This is where the Fuck belongs. Seriously, it would make the entire prequel experience worthwhile.
post #23 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by poopoodle
Wha?
He said he thought it was the best Star Wars movie yet. This was on his interview on Sunday Morning "shootout". Don't know if they have transcripts ...
post #24 of 45
I'm pretty sure Coppola has always been in the anti-Star Wars camp. I think he, along with De Palma and Co., was among the initial detractors when Lucas showed them a rough cut before the release of the first movie. Spielberg was the only one who liked it. In the making of book Lucas makes a joking comment to Natalie Portman about how, "Francis actually likes this one." If hes talking it up elsewhere, i guess thats a good sign, although he did direct Jack...
post #25 of 45
ROTS' PG-13 rating has nothing to do with making more money or generating credibility. It's a by-product of him seeing his series to the end, based on the story he left himself to tell... and nothing more.

This isn't apologetics or criticism. Just a statement of the obvious for anyone who's been looking too hard.
post #26 of 45
Whoa!!!!!!! dare he go 13? A bit risky for him don't you think?

I mean God for bid if he was to have something in the movie that's too risky for 8 year olds.
post #27 of 45
While a rating a good movie does not make, I think this has a better chance of redeeming the series with a lot of older people with a PG-13. It sends a message -- one that says perhaps Lucas is not really targeting kids with this one like some of his other ones.
post #28 of 45
I don't think Lucas is doing this to build hype. Well, at least it's not the only reason.

Lucas has to be upfront and warn parents because there will be controversy. It has the potential to be the antithesis of the TPM backlash.

And he's been "banging this drum" for years. This is not anything new. The Lucas prequel quotes have been truthful, consistent, and prescient regarding fan reception.


Quote:
-April 1997 - "The next movies are prequels. It's the story of Darth Vader. The First one is a pretty light movie. It's the introduction and everything goes downhill from there"

-1997 - "The big chance I'm taking is, I'm working on something I started 20 years ago. And whether it'll fit into the modern world marketing-wise, I'm not sure. The first one I'm doing is very much like the first one I did before; it's kind of upbeat, and it's fun... the first one always gets to introduce the characters, [there's not] that much else to do, so it's easy. And the second one, things start to go wrong, and get complicated. And the third one is the dark one. It'll probably fit in really well with the 21st Century."

--April 23, 1999 - (And the next episodes in the prequel series will be darker than Episode I?) "By their very nature. The next one isn't so bad. The third one's pretty bad." (That's when Anakin goes over to the dark side and becomes Darth Vader?) "Yes. Episode III will probably make half of whatever the others make..."

-May 1999 - [Episode II] will be the romantic one, which is probably a rather dramatic departure — which some people may not like. There will be some action in it, but it's basically more romantic. The next two will be darker. Episode II isn't so bad. The third one's pretty bad — Episode III will probably make half of whatever the others make."

-May 1999 - "I made Episode I as light hearted, and as happy go lucky as possible, because the next film will be darker, and the third film will not be happy by any stretch of the imagination."

-1999 - "The next film is a love story and I don't know how that is going to be taken by the fans. And then the third film is very, very, very dark. It's not a happy movie any stretch of the imagination. It's a tragedy."

-1999 - "I made Episode I as light hearted, and as happy go lucky as possible, because the next film will be darker, and the third film will not be happy by any stretch of the imagination."

-August 1999 - "This story was actually written 20 years ago and I kept it all pretty much the same. The first film is very similar to Episode IV in how it introduces all the characters and sets up what they're going to do. The plot doesn't start to thicken until the second film and the payoff is in the third."

-Dec. 2000 - "The first film starts with the last age of the Republic; which is it's getting tired, old, it's getting corrupt. There's the rise of the Sith, who are now becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this you have Anakin Skywalker: a young boy who's destined to be a very significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and the Republic.

In the second film, we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Replublic, sorta the beginning of the end of the Republic, and it's Anakin Skyalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he's coping with.

Then we will get to the 3rd film, where he is seduced to the dark side, which brings up to films four, five, and six, where Anakin's offspring redeem him & allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."


-April 21st, 2001: "...the third film is very, very, very dark. It's not a happy movie by any stretch of the imagination. It's a tragedy. Ultimately the final story is between Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin and the Padmé. It's really their story. Those four characters."

-May 2002 - "EPISODE II was the movie that had to get me from one to the other, so it had to have just the right tone - and I think we found that tone. It has a certain melancholy about it, but it's fun at the same time. And it appears to be a nice movie with a somewhat happy ending, at least with Anakin and Padmé. It's only when you put it in the context of the bigger story that you see the handwriting on the wall. You notice flaws in Anakin's personality that are going to sink him in the end. In this movie, you just see the beginnings of that but it won't really come to the forefront until the next episode."

-May 2002 - "No. I wouldn't say this one (EP 2) is dark at all. It certainly deals with some more serious issues. But it's still an action movie with a love story at its center. The next one [EP3] will be the dark one. That one is going to be pretty bad and will probably make the least amount of money of all of the movies, because it will be so hard to market and hard for audiences to enjoy in a positive way. But I have to do it that way, because that's the story. But I'm actually really looking forward to it, because there is some intense emotional stuff in this one and it's going to be a lot of fun to make"

-May 19, 2002: "Well in 3, Anakin becomes Darth Vader so that's about as dark as you can get."

-May 2002 -- “If you were a studio, I’m sure you would say, ‘This is way too dark. You’re going to alienate your audience.’ But what can I do? That’s the story.”

-Sept 2004: "I think each one is different. They're all different. None two are alike. This is the darkest of them all. It's very dark. I don't know what it's gonna be rated, but I don't think it's gonna be rated like the other ones. Not because of anything other than the fact that it's more intense. It's more emotionally intense."

-Oct 2004: "It's going very well. I just finished shooting in London for two weeks - I shoot for 60 days and then I usually shoot for another ten days after I've sorted everything out - So the last shot of Star Wars has been shot, and now I have to cut all that in, sort it out and tie everything down. And in October, Johnny Williams is going to start looking at the movie and writing the score.
I'm getting towards the end, and I'm really happy with it. It came out really well. It's much more intense than any of the others, so I'm not quite sure how it's gonna be accepted. It's very dark, obviously, cause everybody gets killed in the end. But it will make the whole six movies make sense"
post #29 of 45
Considering that Lucas has for some time been saying that ROTS would be a PG-13 film, this comes as absoultely no surprise.
I am not a Lucas fanboy..just read what I have say about TPM....but he has been upfront for nearly a year, possbily longer, that ROTS would be very violent and get a PG-13 rating.
But What is Mecha Superior going to do for a Hobby once the film is out????
post #30 of 45
This story did not NEED to be PG13. There are no inherent PG13 story elements.
post #31 of 45
How so, without going into details, I always wondered how you could depict the "hero" of the film killing almost everybody in a PG film. Not to mention the actual details of how he gets there.

We get a glimpse of it on AotC, but now it's characters we know or have seen before, so it just has to be a more violent film by definition.

I thought the PG-13 thing was just hype, but I'm gladly surprised it's going to happen ... I would have taken my kids to see TPM, but with this one I always had the feeling it was not material for really young kids.
post #32 of 45
I don't think the PG-13 is really about the graphical violence -- although Anakin burning up should be pretty brutal. When Lucas says the film might be too much for some 5 and 6 year olds, it's more about the emotionality of the piece. It might just get too intense for certain toddlers. It's really about the mood in the second half of the picture -- as EVIL is unleashed.

"Graphical violence" is not as potent (especially on young psyches and ratings boards) without specific context and tone affecting it's cinematic presentation. I mean you see 3 heads and a hand chopped off during the last couple of reels of AOTC, but that won't scar a kid.

However....

The hero going to the darkside, murder and betrayal of good guys, the overwhelmingly scary evil and triumph of Palpatine, a husband choking his wife, friends trying to kill each other


.....that kind of context -- if played with a tragic SW tone not felt since 1980 -- might very well be too much for certain sensitive kids. Definitely gonna heighten their perception of any kind of onscreen violence, that's for damn sure.


Anyhow, PG of yesteryear ain't the PG of today.
post #33 of 45
Anakin's never been the hero of any of these films, which is why they're inherent failures. I have said it a million times - these movies are about the hero being betrayed by his sidekick.
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Anakin's never been the hero of any of these films, which is why they're inherent failures. I have said it a million times - these movies are about the hero being betrayed by his sidekick.
Which is what I got from Obi-Wan´s dialog in ANH. I never considered him a hero in the same sense as Luke and I don´t understand how anyone can believe that, so what´s your fucking point?
post #35 of 45
His point is that if Lucas intented to portray Anakin as a likeable hero (ala Luke) who ultimately falls, he failed. Neither portrayal of Anakin in either TPM or AOTC was very likeable... and the Anakin in EP3 goes evil pretty rapidly after making some errant choices.

Devin is right in that the heroes of the PT are basically Obi-Wan and Yoda, not Anakin. Which may or may not be by design.

If this is the way it is supposed to be, that's fine. But if we're supposed to buy Anakin as the "hero" (which I am not entirely sure of), then Lucas did indeed fail on that level.
post #36 of 45
Anakin doesn't need to be the "hero," per se, but he in order for the audience to really feel his transition to the Dark Side he at least need to be LIKEABLE, even loveable.

Judging by the promotional campaign, Lucas seems to want us to revel in Anakin's turn towards evil, which is the wrong approach to take if he wants the film to succeed dramatically.
post #37 of 45
Nah. It's not really like that, either.
post #38 of 45
I always thought of him as the sidekick. True, there was this kind of reverence about him, but for me it was always as if Dick Grayson turned to evil.

But Lucas definitely hasn't done a good job of selling him to us either way.
post #39 of 45
Well, at least in this one we know why Anakin does the things he does and makes the choices he makes, even if they are all ignorant, naive, and foolhardy.
post #40 of 45
It's because he hates sand, right?
post #41 of 45
Actually, it's more because he likes the softness of Naboo women.
post #42 of 45
This is why Obi Wan and Qui Gonn should have switched roles on Tatooine in Epi !. I know it doesnt fix the relationship with Anakin but it would have strengthened it somewhat.
post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Cunningham
the heroes of the PT are basically Obi-Wan and Yoda.
And it's not even until the second half of SITH -- when evil and good are finally pronounced -- that that even becomes primal.


I know from experience that children (especially those not well versed in the OT) see Anakin as a hero. They don't percieve the muddled good VS evil dynamics. They don't analyze the puppet master web of Palpatine/Sidious (ie: everyone being a naive pawn of evil incarnate)

They don't hold it against Anakin for worrying about his mother -- or even (shock!) getting revenge for her death. They emphasize with him rebelling against his "parents" (Obi-Wan/Jedi Council)

Anakin is the good guy because he saved the Queen, his master, etc...

They sense he's also *trying* to do the right thing.

Simple as that.
post #44 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecha superior
And it's not even until the second half of SITH -- when evil and good are finally pronounced -- that that even becomes primal.


I know from experience that children (especially those not well versed in the OT) see Anakin as a hero. They don't percieve the muddled good VS evil dynamics. They don't analyze the puppet master web of Palpatine/Sidious (ie: everyone being a naive pawn of evil incarnate)

They don't hold it against Anakin for worrying about his mother -- or even (shock!) getting revenge for her death. They emphasize with him rebelling against his "parents" (Obi-Wan/Jedi Council)

Anakin is the good guy because he saved the Queen, his master, etc...

They sense he's also *trying* to do the right thing.

Simple as that.
I've talked to some kids (who may be a little older than the ones you're talking about) who were surprisingly discerning regarding Palpatine's machinations. These kids are fun to talk to. I love to get their perspective on the movies. I remember after AOTC came out I was talking about it at work with some co-workers and this kid who was 10 or 11 kind of cautiously circled closer and closer to me until he got the courage to engage me in a conversation. He said, "I think Yoda suspects something," in reference to the quick shot of Yoda turning his squinty look at Palpatine at the begining of AOTC. I thought it was great that he picked up on something subtle like that.

Anyway, his enthusiasm reminded me of myself at that age.
post #45 of 45
Whether they equal the originals in quality to us or not, the children of today love the prequels as much as the originals. (Sidenote: the few I have talked to HATE Jar Jar Binks)

As for the rating, I don't think it will effect it in a negative way at all.
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