ROTK - TV Ads

Didn't Return of the King come out, like, a few years ago?

Revenge of the Kith?

At any rate, I'm getting tired of hearing fanboys who worship the original trilogy complain about the dialogue in the prequels, as if "I don't know where you get your delusions, laser-brain" is a masterpiece of subtlety and character depth. Try watching the original films without the blinders on. You'll be surprised. Lucas had never had a way with dialogue, and he's never been all that good with actors. Not in 1977, not now. No one loves Star Wars more than me, but don't be blind to its faults. And incidentally, if you think that either of the previous two films are worse than Return of the Jedi, you're on crack. Ewoks? Come now.

That was always my favorite line. Luke was so over the top and whiny. If the Emprorer heard him right there, he'd probably be all like: "You know what, this kid's a wuss. Forget him."

True, but is it too much to ask that Lucas IMPROVE his skills in 30 years? The faults of the OT are forgivable given the constraints of the production and Lucas' own inexperience. But now Lucas has access to absolutely everything, and had all the time, talent, and money he could ever wish for, and he's come up way short. And no matter how bad the Ewoks are, they're still better than Gungans.

In my opinion, the difference between the PT and the OT [dialogue & actingwise] is performance, performance performance.

What made Leia believable wasn't her dialogue [which is bad] it was Carrie Fischer and the fire beneath her exterior. Fisher's performance made her character real. I love Natalie Portman in everything [just about] except for this series. She has no fire, no depth just vocal and visible deadpan. I don't attribute this to Portman herself, I attribute this to a character she didn't understand enough to believe in, and that's George's fault. Have any of you seen Portman in Garden State? She's amazing, I was enthralled by every creative decision she made.

Again, in my opinion, the characters of the PT are weighed down because, well, they're not important. They're set pieces made to work in tandem with a larger digital whole. Set pieces have a history of not doing much. I believe as time has gone on and Lucas has learned that movies have to be more than pretty pictures. The set pieces/characters in the PT have become slightly more animated with glimpses of actual character since the release of AOTC.

I don't think there's ever been such thing as good star wars dialogue honestly, there's just been good performances. The PT is driven by the visuals as opposed to the OT being driven by the characters and that is George's biggest failure. Photo real CGI isn't the recipe for a good story. We'll see if ROTS makes up for the first two's shortcomings. I'm hoping it will.

That's my opinion, and I'm stickin to it

I agree. The PT characters might as well be props. I'm thinking Padme in AOTC WAS a prop, although quite an attractive one

the prequels, imho, aren't bad as much as they are wildly uneven. my favorite bits of dialogue and acting in the whole series are in ep1 and 2. perhaps you might think i'm high on paint fumes. perhaps. but -

the conversation between quigon and anakin about life on other planets in ep1 was wonderful.
the conversation between obiwan and dooku in the geonosis prison was also wonderful.
so was watto's delivery of just about every line. cgi schnozz and all. "A jedi? well.. whadaya know!"

balance that out with some romantic thoughts on the texture of sand...

and you've got some UNEVEN movies, not bad ones.

I'm going to settle this OT vs. PT thing once and for all.

The difference between the OT and the PT is not the dialogue (both are similar), it's not the acting (there's plenty of whining in both trilogies), it's not the CGI or the the blue screen (think of how much time actors spent in the cockpit of the Millenniumfalcon looking at/shooting at nothing during the OT). . .

It's the hugs.

Let me explain: The characters in the OT hug each other a whole lot more than the characters in the PT.

That kind of non-sexual show of affection does a lot to establish emotional vulnerability and thus a deeper level of friendship between the characters. And thus, the audience likes the characters more.

Let's do the math:

OT Hugs
Hugs all around in the Garbage Compacter in ANH after R2 saves our heroes
Leia and Luke swinging across the chasm in the Death Star (debateable if it's actually a hug, but there was a lot of affection from Leia to Luke)
Leia's arm around Luke after Obi-Wan dies (debateable if it's actually a hug, but I'm including it)
Leia and Chewbacca hug after escaping the Death Star
Leia hugs the general after arriving on Yavin
Lots of hugs after Luke destroys the Death Star
Chewbacca hugs Luke on Hoth in ESB
Han and Leia hug at Cloud City (I think it was a full hug, but I could be mistaken)
Leia hugs Luke after rescuing him in Cloud City
Chewbacca hugs Han in Jabba's palace in ROTJ
Luke hugs Leia after returning from Degobah
Han and Luke hug Leia after being rescued from the Ewoks
Hugs All Around at the end of ROTJ (Chewbacca, Wedge, Han, Luke, Leia, the Ewoks and Lando are all involved in multiple hugs)

PT Hugs
Padme hugs Anakin after the Pod race (though it's a very cold hug, not with a lot of emotion - probably because he was so much younger than her and it might have seemed weird)
Anakin and his mother hug while Anakin is about to leave with Qui-Gon (and a VERY effective and emotional scene - but I'm not counting the hug and kiss with his mom after the Pod Race because it includes a kiss and I'm NOT including hugs with kisses)
Padme hugs one of her attendents before leaving with Anakin to Naboo in AOTC (I'm NOT including Anakin and Padme rolling around in the grass - it was more wrestling than a hug)
Obi-Wan hugs Dexter Jetster (another fine scene, IMHO)
Anakin and Padme hug before Anakin heads off to find his mother (again, another VERY effective scene, one of my favorites - though I'm not including Anakin and his mother because she's dying and I'm not including any scenes where one of the huggers is dying)
Padme puts her arm around Anakin after his confession (another iffy hug, but I'm including it because I included Leia and Luke's hug on the Falcon)
Anakin and Padme at the end of Dooku Duel (although, they were in the back of the frame, so small that you couldn't even tell what was going on, but I'm including it anyway)

So the count is:
OT - 13 scenes of hugs (not even counting the Ewoks hugging R2 or the multiple hugs between characters within certain scenes)
PT - 7 scenes with hugs (all of these are individual on individual hugs, though - please remind me if I'm missing any)

I think what makes some people like the OT more than the PT is this show of affection from the characters for one another, exemplified by the larger number of non-sexual hugs that are given. I don't think Luke and Han would have been considered such good friends in ANH if they hadn't hugged so vigorously at the end of the movie.

Now, I realize that there is one more movie to go, and I REALLY, REALLY hope that Obi-Wan and Anakin hug at least once - I think it'll do a lot to cementing their friendship.

You know I'm right.

There were/are amazing little moments in the PT, despite my very critical opinion of both films I love them, they're star wars, unmistakable. I love the weight that the characters of Count Dooku brought, Ewan was equally great as was Neeson.

Speaking of Watto, he's the best thing about TPM, pure Star Wars. Unfortunately the OT's greatness is about a whole working wonderfully instead of excavating small pieces in the PT that work here and there. But I still watch the PT weekly.

J.M. Prater

I really dont care about the dialogue, or the acting. It is star wars, and the acting and dialogue drive the plot of the movie. I love these movies no matter what. I liked all three tv spots. I am sure when Anakin and Obi-wan are fighting on the floating piece of rock it will look awesome in the movie.

And you're welcome to it, of course, but I don't agree. I think that Carrie Fisher's acting topped out at adequate. I've heard others echo your opinion, but I just don't see it. Aside from the old pros (Guiness, Cushing), the performances just weren't there, and didn't need to be. This was (at least in the case of the first film), a movie serial, with all that implies. Oscar-worthy acting wasn't necessary, and may have been detrimental to the tone. Even Ford, now acknowledged as a great actor, didn't really wake up until Empire. What makes Star Wars work is pure vision, and as far as I'm concerned, that's still there.

I love the hugs theory. Can ROTS do 6 to catch up? Not likely.

YODA "The last of the jedi we are. A hug I need." YODA "Arrange that I can."

Welcome to two weeks ago! :P

I still think people oogle the OT too much:

Luke is so over the top and whiny! I love it!

Anakin is so over the top and whiny! God dammit, Lucas!

It all sucks, make no mistake. Cringe-worthy dialog is a staple of SW movies.

See, this thread just pissed me right off. I look on the Franchise boards and say, "Holy fuck! Someone made a thread not having to do with SW!" I click on it, and what do I get? Fucking ROTS television advertisement thoughts. It's like someone told me my grandmother was a demon that created Oprah Winfrey and we kick her around for awhile, then after she's a bleeding pulp he shrugs and says, "Oh shit! I guess she was your grandmother after all."

As for the spots, they really are like Saturday morning cartoon advertisements. It does say they're for kids though. It kind of confuses me, since it didn't seem like what Lucas was going to aim for, but he does want to get the marketing out to everyone I guess. It does take away from the "dark and adult" Star Wars film description a bit.

Interesting theory, Tits. As the man said: "Them some titties!"
Lucas should have had the young Anakin smelling her hair in that scene (if it's already there, I missed it).

Not ONE good piece of advertising for this film. Did Lucasfilm change marketing firms or something because either they don't have anything to work with or they're just incompetent.

Honestly, one of those ads was just "lets show some lightsabers and play the theme". Honestly, these look like they took five minutes and half a brain to make. Is it THAT hard to advertise this film?

I haven't seen any of these yet. We NEVER get tv spots in New Zealand, not even for LOTR. But by the sounds of it, I'm not missing much

I haven't seen any on TV either.....but there's this place called starwars.com where you can see them all at once! Amazing!