STAR WARS: The Majesty of John Williams - Page 2

Why didn't fans like the TPM extended score? Was it too chopped up? One thing I like about the OT scores is you can picture the whole film as you're listening. But AOTC's music was butchered, and there was too much 'incidental' stuff (ie, stuff you can't hum to). Besides, the whole third act of AOTC used music recycled from TPM, which was just bad.

I think the OT were unique in that the music was an integral part of the film - it enhanced what was up onscreen, instead of being virtual background noise like in a lot of films. And does anyone else here share the love for Jabba's Baroque Recital from ROTJ? I always picture Jabba playing a flute-type instrument with Sy Snootles when I read that!

The thing with TPM is that it's score, like AOTC, was butchered by Williams. He had scored to Lucas' final cut. However, George showed the film to Ron Howard and Spielberg, who suggested he re-edit it. So he went back, and in the process, screwed up the rest of the score. The album was released as it is on film, chopped up and edited. Ironically, some of the actual unedited pieces were presented on the original 1999 one-disc release. But yeah, this got the fans' goat.

Shit yes. This collection rules. I love that it's the only place I can get "Yub Nub" now.

John Williams has written / scored some of the greatest melodies / themes in blockbuster films. Jaws wouldn't be Jaws without his contribution. Obviously, Star Wars is memorable because of what he brought to the table musically. Close Encounters is also an amazing film to hear as well.

That said, I don't care for Williams anymore, he seems unable to create the types of melodies he was once capable of. My new favorites are James Newton Howard, Yann Tiersen, Michael Nyman to name a few. I really believe film scores these days lack originality as a whole. I feel like Williams retreads old ground time and time again with his scores. I would certainly call his earlier career majestic but I don't think he's all that he's cracked up to be, at least, not any more. Flaming commence I suppose.

J.M. Prater

Have you heard the SITH score yet?

I think if you listen to THE PHANTOM MENACE, or the HARRY POTTER scores, or even something like A.I., his work is still impressive. TPM had some great themes, not to mention 'Across the Stars' from AOTC, and his work on A.I. is a really understated and minimalist piece that deserves a lot of kudos.

I always find JNH pretty bland, myself. Howard Shore and Danny Elfman are the only big composers I really care for nowadays, especially now Goldsmith has gone. I dig Mark Isham, but he's barely known (and because of that, I can't get the POINT BREAK score )

There really aren't a lot of composers out there who don't do this. Everyone pretty much does it at one time or another. James Horner does it with every score, and has done so ever since ripping off Goldsmith with BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS. Sure, Williams has a particular style, but he always manages to tweak it enough, and has done so especially with SITH.

I remember the blow-up over TMP's 2-CD release - I still have some of the tracks that didn't make it onto that collection - just bits and pieces, but they should have been on it.

I'm holding out, against hope, that we'll get another AOTC soundtrack, because Williams had to rework the score due to the re-cutting of the film - there must be more music that we haven't heard yet that was tossed to the wayside - but I'm also still waiting for the expanded TOD and Last Crusade soundtracks.....

I actually own the ROTS soundtrack and there's some great moments in it to be sure, as Duel of the Fates & Across the Stars are great as well. My issue with Williams is similar to my issues with the PT, wonderful moments that don't add up to a great overall product.

After a while the greats seem to burn out creatively, just like James Horner & Hans Zimmer seem to recycle their themes in the scores they do. For the record James Horner's soundtrack to Titanic was utter dreck, he borrowed from himself, stole a central melody from Enya and proceeded to produce one of the most boring soundtracks for a film, and he won an academy award to boot.

Anywhore....

I agree, also Hans Zimmer's score for Pirates of the Carribean sounded an AWFUL lot like his score for Gladiator.

I think directors shouldn't rely on a small group of composers for their music, rather they should be looking for originality. Its only natural that when you've done as many epic scores as Williams has, you begin to repeat yourself. Plus, the whole idea of symphonic scores in films has been done to death. It needs a break again.

For the record, Horner lost it long before Titanic, if he ever had it. Willow is a blatant rip off of a Schumann Symphony, and lets not even get started on Honey I Shrunk the Kids. Williams may have lost his lustre in recent years, but Horner is the ultimate king of self/plagiarism.

As for Zimmer and Pirates, well, he didn't do the score, Klaus Badelt did, a media ventures (Zimmer's company) cronie, which more or less accounts for it both sounding like a. Zimmer, and b. Gladiator (which Badelt had a hand in scoring.)

Well done, just testing...

Good catch, my bad. Meant Lucas I did.

Thank God. I almost thought the years of my dislike for the lack of long, musical cues in Episode I were directed towards the wrong person.

The music is what makes the end of Jedi. Empire could stand without the music, but the soundtrack is what makes Jedi the culmination of the series for me. Say what you want about ewoks, the end of Jedi is still the most emotional moment for me, and the music only adds to that.

Although I haven't listened to the ROTS disc. Thanks to some convincing from my musically inclined fiancee, I now consider even the music to be spoilers.

Yeah, quite the cool set. I got this thing for $15 used, and it's one of my greatest treasures.

I had to say Empire because, well, it's the best music. But, boy, Phantom Menace is a really close second for me. Why is it so low in the poll? Is the movie itself clogging people's ears?

Hey, if you are going to condemn Horner for swiping from Classical composers, byou will have to condemn just about every film composer who does full orchrestical scores. I could make a long list of classical composers Williams swiped from in all his Star Wars scores. The Medal Ceremony from ANH just screams "Edward Elgar March" and Duel Of The Fates might , if he were still alive, give Carl Orff grounds to sue Lucas and Williams for plagiaringing "Carmina Burana". And I could go on.....
Composers have been liberally borrowing and outright stealing from Classical Music from the first film scores, and will continue to do under the crack of doom. The question is how well they use the stolen goods....
BTW I agree that Horner is much worse then Williams when it comes to recycling himself, but swiping from classical composers is something that even the best film composers do on a regular basis.

I concur wholeheartedly. I wasn't trying to argue that Williams, or anyone else for that matter had their hands clean. In addition to those you mentioned, also add Holst's Mars to the list for Star Wars, and Zimmer lifted from Orff's Musica Poetica for True Romance. Its just that i'm not a big Horner fan, and he's an easy target.

Swiping from classical composers is definitely one thing. I don't even believe it's swiping, I'd call it appropriating genius. It's a far different issue when your score is so much like a previous one that, well, yeah. Case in point is Hans 'hack' Zimmer who took his breathtaking score from The Thin Red Line and BUTCHERED it and put it in that abomination known as Pearl Harbor.

Williams isn't even close to the above, he's just tired with a few good notes left in him.

Ferguson, email me what you think about those pics I sent

The opening theme to the Star Wars also sounds much like Korngold's Main title to King's Row.... But all composers are inspired by their peers and the classics - and Horner can be lazy - how often has he used that reedy haunted melody (Aliens, Patriot Games), or that electric guitar twang (Battle Beyond the Stars, Star Trek II and III) in his scores....

oh, and someone posted quite a few tracks of Episode II music in the newsgroup: alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.soundtracks - many of the tracks I haven't heard until now, so it's some sort of bootleg.... Worth a look if you're wanting to hear more of EP II's music...

You nailed it. This is the best audible moment in either trilogy. Gets me every, freaken, time. Even better that it plays during the most vital scene in the OT also.. Luke walking the fine line of the Force..


I think if i had to pick a favourite, it would end up as a bar-room brawl between AOTC and ROTJ (not getting ROTS still after i see the movie, dont wanna lose any emotional punch)...

For AOTC - Across the Stars.. the way this was blended with the Imperial March at the end of AOTC.. just makes your emotions soar in ways the rest of the movie couldnt quite reach... its my favourite moment in the PT... AOTC had one hell of a great soundtrack

For ROTJ - ill probably catch flak for putting this above ESB, but sometimes you gotta go against the grain and this soundtrack just stood out alot for me with the variety of styles...the Emperor's Theme.. the battle of Endor.. the Victory Celebration (makes me wanna dance), and the aforementioned moment when Luke snaps and unleashes his rage on Vader.... this movie is just filled to the brim with amazing music... I'd say this movie suckerpunches AOTC in the end

but they're all so amazing it doesnt seem fair to place any one a higher pedestal than the rest

Oh, Jesus Fuck. I just downloaded "Battle of the Heroes" from Apple Music (thank you Pepsi!), and when the Force theme came in...

...I want to see this movie very, very, very badly now.

Oh Jesus Fuck I had the soundtrack to episode III a month ago (he he).

Return of the Jedi's soundtrack is good, but I hate with a passion that dance number from Jabba's palace. Yet like mentioned before, a lot of the music espcially near the end of the movie is great.

Empire is my favorate because this is when all the themes become more memoriable, plus Imperial March is born. Empire also being the best movie overall allows the visuals to come to mind when I listen to the music, so it helps.

A New Hope has a overall great score, yet for some reason it just doesn't get me going like Empire. I'm still trying to figure it out.

The Phantom Menace is like a subdued nice night at the orchestra. If certain visuals of the film didn't pop in from time to time, I'd really love this soundtrack.

Attack of the Clones feels a little off. Confrontation of with Count Dooku though is the best theme theme so far as it really reminded me of the Empire soundtrack with the mixing of the March theme. It doesn't hurt that the scenes that were with the music were also really good.

Return of the Sith!
I'm really starting to like it, A LOT! Battle of Heros is just freaken great. I can actually say I like something about every song at least! This is battle music (a personal fav or mine) with old school music from Empire. Now if the movie is decent, I'll gladly place this along side Empire.

Nothing touches Empire. It's a brilliant once in a lifetime piece of work, just like the movie. Empire was one of those rare films that had everything flowing on the same excellent level. Script, direction, visual fx, music.

My favorite piece is the BATTLE OF HOTH, followed by the piece where Luke flies out the window into the reactor shaft on Bespin (can'tr remember track title).

A New Hope is a close second, but it's a different animal.