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THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE! HD-DVD and Blu-ray to merge!

post #1 of 22
4/22/05 at 12:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Blu-ray and HD-DVD Join Forces
Sony and Toshiba to team up on a new, unified next-gen format.
April 21, 2005 - According to a report by the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, the next-generation format war may be over before it ever starts. The Japanese newspaper on Thursday published with news that Sony and Toshiba are expected to make an announcement later this month that they have abandoned the Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats respectively and are working on a new medium that will bring together both standards.

Sony, a leading member of the Blu-ray Disc Association, announced last year that it would include a Blu-ray drive in its forthcoming next-generation console, PlayStation 3. More than 100 companies, including Apple, Panasonic, HP, and Pioneer, support Blu-ray, which promises up to 50 gigabytes of storage on a single disc side. Toshiba leads the opposing format, HD-DVD.

While it is commonly accepted that Blu-ray discs offer more storage space than HD-DVDs, electronics companies and Hollywood studios have remained divided over the two formats due in large to the manufacturing processes. In short, the DVD infrastructures already in place would serve HD-DVD manufacturers. However, costly new facilities and operations would need to be created in order to support the Blu-ray format.

Sony and Toshiba have remained in negotiations on the subject for weeks, with key company executives from each camp dropping hints that a unified standard would be optimal.

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun reports that, having reached an agreement that a new, unified standard would be the best thing for the industry, Sony and Toshiba are now in the process of designing the new standard, which seeks to take the strengths from each medium and combine them.

Sony has reportedly suggested using Blu-ray's disc structure and HD-DVD's software technology while Toshiba has suggested keeping HD-DVD's disc structure and applying Sony's multi-layer data-recording technology.

The Japanese paper reports that both companies are eager to reach an agreement in order to avoid the format wars that initially confused consumers and hindered both the VHS and DVD eras. The two electronics giants have already briefed major Hollywood studios including Disney and AOL Time Warner on the idea of a new, unified standard, according to the paper.

The big question is, what does this news mean for PlayStation 3, which is scheduled to release sometime next year? The very probable answer is that the next-generation machine will drop Sony's announced Blu-ray drive in favor of hardware that instead plays this new, still-announced format compromise.
From IGN
FUCK YES! Does make me wonder on Xbox now. I'm really happy now. I knew losing a friend would be balanced by something.
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post #2 of 22
4/22/05 at 12:12am
Wow, great news. Really, really great news. I hope it's true. HD-DVD is promising. Heck, I saw a DVD projected on a $150,000 DLP projector and it looked better than many old 16mm prints and better in some ways (except not close in resolution) to a bad 35mm print.

Apparently, film has 4000 lines of resolution, but the average print only retains 800 since it's not the original print and it loses detail over time. 1080p should provide as much resolution and take "home theater" to an entirely new level (though 720p projectors are all that are availible to consumers at this point, at least so far as DLP goes...)
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post #3 of 22
4/22/05 at 12:51am
What will they call it? HD-Blu? Ray-HD? DVD-Ray? DVD-Blu? The McDoubleDip?
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post #4 of 22
4/22/05 at 1:14am
Wow. This is the best news I've heard in a while...at least as far as tech stuff is concerned. One format will make the change from standard DVD to and HD format SOOOO much easier. Super great stuff.
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post #5 of 22
4/22/05 at 1:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar
Wow, great news. Really, really great news. I hope it's true. HD-DVD is promising. Heck, I saw a DVD projected on a $150,000 DLP projector and it looked better than many old 16mm prints and better in some ways (except not close in resolution) to a bad 35mm print.
I'm not sure if I can be happy about this move. HD-DVD is crap compared to Blu-Ray's storage capacity. I really hope that on the storage side, they get closer to Blu-Ray than HD-DVD. I could care less about the software they use, I want LARGE storage capacity.
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post #6 of 22
4/22/05 at 1:42am
Well, the storage capacity was never an issue for me, since I don't do any DVD recording myself. As long as there's enough to hold the movie, it doesn't matter to me. However, if they decide that backwards compatibility is important, then I would bet that the final format will be closer to what HD-DVD was going to be. HD-DVD looked just like an ordinary DVD, and the HD-DVD players would've read both the red laser DVDs and the blue laser ones.
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post #7 of 22
4/22/05 at 1:50am
Thread Starter 
Heck I was this close to going to Sony and sacrificing myself in a fight against the rouge agent Mario so Sony and Toshiba could get along.

I'm wanting a more unified format first. Storage a very quick 2nd.
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post #8 of 22
4/22/05 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Embrodak
Well, the storage capacity was never an issue for me, since I don't do any DVD recording myself.
Do you do any backups? I want media that can at least backup a small fraction of my data. Single layer DVD just doesn't cut the mustard, and double layer is not that great either. Specially if you want to backup video and not destroy it with unecessary compression.

Quote:
As long as there's enough to hold the movie, it doesn't matter to me. However, if they decide that backwards compatibility is important, then I would bet that the final format will be closer to what HD-DVD was going to be. HD-DVD looked just like an ordinary DVD, and the HD-DVD players would've read both the red laser DVDs and the blue laser ones.
HD-DVD is not compatible with legacy DVD. There's a hack that they proposed which is a terrible waste of time. It consists of using a dual layer for HD-DVD with one layer being the old DVD format. The drawback? The freaking DVD layer only holds 4.5 gigs of data.

You can't full length movie in such a small space, without compressing the hell out of it. It's a waste of time and not worth it at all. It would be better if they simply just bundled 2 discs, one next gen and the other DVD, than use such a horrible method.

The DVD forum is holding everybody back. These are the same idiots who let the DVD +/- R/RW mess happen in the first place, which is a total disaster and confuses the heck out of consumers. They're supposed to come up with standards, and even today, you can't guarantee that the movie you burn is going to play in any DVD player that has their stupid "DVD label".

The more I think about this, the worse it sounds.
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post #9 of 22
4/22/05 at 3:00am
If experience has shown us anything, it's that Sony sees the importance of backwards-compatibility. (PSX to PS2.) It also seems that they learned their lesson with Beta. Despite the fact that Beta was superior in many ways, VHS won out in the end, and it cost Sony millions. As long as this format keeps the consumers in mind, then good.
Just give us the most for our money, and that'll be good for me. Sound and picture first, then extra shit. I want 1080p minimum, that way it'll be ready for the newest monitors.
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post #10 of 22
4/22/05 at 3:16am
Backward compatibility? What does that have to do with anything? Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players both play DVD movies.
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post #11 of 22
4/22/05 at 4:18am
Well, yeah, they both play movies, but you wouldn't have been able to play your old DVD movies on a Blu-Ray player. (unless it was a combo player like the DVD/VCR combos we have now....which are ugly) With an HD-DVD player, it would've had the same kind of disc tray, just a different laser. Hence, the backwards compatibility issue.



Unless I missed something along the way, a DVD won't fit in that tray.
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post #12 of 22
4/22/05 at 10:13am
Blu-Ray got rid of the whole cartridge thing a while back. I don't know why people still think that they're using it. From the FAQ at blu-ray.com:

Quote:
1.10 Will Blu-ray Discs require a cartridge?


No, the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) and TDK have successfully developed a new hard-coating technology dubbed "Durabis" that makes the discs even more resistant to scratches and fingerprints than existing DVDs, without requiring a cartridge to protect the discs. This development will enable manufacturers to downsize PC drives and lower their overall media production costs.
And:

Quote:
2.4 Will Blu-ray support playback of DVDs?


Yes, several leading consumer electronics companies (including Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung and LG) have already demonstrated products that can read/write CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray Discs using a BD/DVD/CD compatible optical head, so you don't have to worry about your existing DVD collection becoming obsolete. Although it's up to each manufacturer to decide if they want to make their products backwards compatible with DVD, the format is far too popular to not be supported. The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) expects every Blu-ray Disc device to be backward compatible with CDs and DVDs.
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post #13 of 22
4/22/05 at 11:14am
I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I believe the appeal of HD-DVD over Blu-Ray was from a manufacturing perspective, not backwards compatibility--existing DVD manufacturing equipment could be cheaply and easily upgraded to produce HD-DVDs, while Blu-Ray required an entirely new process.
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post #14 of 22
4/22/05 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubei
Blu-Ray got rid of the whole cartridge thing a while back. I don't know why people still think that they're using it.
I stand corrected. I didn't know that they ditched the cartridge. That being the case, bring on the Blu-Ray.
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post #15 of 22
4/22/05 at 8:15pm
I am betting that pressure on both companies from the Content providers prompted them to get together and make nice.
IMHO the advantage was slowly going to HD DVD...that this happened after Warner and Microsoft basically came out in favor of HD DVD earlier this week probably has a lot to do with it.
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post #16 of 22
4/24/05 at 5:12pm
Good to know there won't be two competing formats confusing people. I preferred Blu-Ray myself due to the larger capacity.

Looks like with this new format T.V. season sets can be held on one whole disc, neat.
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post #17 of 22
4/25/05 at 5:04pm
Anyway I don't think HDDVD is going to catch on with the speed that DVD did. Yes, the quality is superior to normal DVD ,and yes, it will eventually replace it, but it is not the quantum leap gotta-have-it -Now format
that DVD was over VHS. It will take HDDVD longer to become the market standard than DVD did.
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post #18 of 22
4/25/05 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb
Anyway I don't think HDDVD is going to catch on with the speed that DVD did. Yes, the quality is superior to normal DVD ,and yes, it will eventually replace it, but it is not the quantum leap gotta-have-it -Now format
that DVD was over VHS. It will take HDDVD longer to become the market standard than DVD did.
Blu-Ray is going to have a better chance because it's going to be included in the PS3. Not to mention that if they keep the Blu-Ray storage capacity, we might see it replacing DVD burners.
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post #19 of 22
4/25/05 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Blu-Ray is going to have a better chance because it's going to be included in the PS3.
That may be up in the air at this point. If a cross-corporate standard is reached, the Sony PS3 drive may be whatever they come up with. Or perhaps the drive will read the new standard as well as Blu-Ray, with Blu-Ray being reserved for games for proprietary reasons.

Remember that because of these new talks, both formats might disappear altogether, no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Neither party will want to completely let go of their advancements; it's become a matter of combining them into something new. The talks won't be about choosing one over the other. This may also mean a longer wait for whatever they come up with. Probably more than a year at least.
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post #20 of 22
4/25/05 at 6:08pm
No officials have said anything about a new hybrid format yet, here's more details

http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/207

Quote:
Is there no end in sight to the rumours about Blu-ray and HD-DVD? DVDRecorderWorld strips out the chaff and gives you the real deal about the Sony / Toshiba truce.

We're not claiming any inside knowledge, but there is a definite pattern emerging to the reports that Sony and Toshiba were considering a truce or indeed, were already locked in discussions about producing a hybrid format.

First we see the rumour - and we've been as guilty as any of reporting them - that a compromise format is on the cards. We even speculated what form that compromise format might take. Then comes the denial from Sony and complete silence from Toshiba.

Then we see the counter-rumour, followed by a denial from Sony and silence from Toshiba.

The one constant in all of this is that the rumours originate from off-the-cuff comments from Sony spokespeople, about 'protecting the consumer' or 'it being in everyone's interest to have a single format'.

And there you have it - a single format. At no point has anyone from either company suggested that a hybrid solution was on the cards, only that a single disc-type must prevail if the industry, and users, aren't to be damaged.

The war is still very much on, and just because the two camps are desperately trying to persuade the other to down weapons and defect, it does not mean that peace is about to break out. If both stand firm we will be in for a rerun of VHS/Betamax and commercial success will decide the result.
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post #21 of 22
5/11/05 at 12:44pm
Thread Starter 

the winner is at hand

Quote:
Blu-ray Wins?
The next generation DVD format seems to get finalized.
by Anoop Gantayat

May 9, 2005 - Following recent announcements of a move towards compromise in the heated battle to become the next generation home video standard, the Tuesday morning Nihon Keizai Shimbun contains a first report on the shape that such a compromise will take. According to the paper, Sony and Toshiba have entered into final preparations for a format which combines disk technology from Sony with software technology from Toshiba. The two companies plan to offer an unified format to members of their respective high definition video forums as early as next week.

Toshiba's decision to give way on the disk format was apparently made after examining cost issues related to the Sony technology. The merged format will make use of Sony's 0.1 millimeter Blu-ray disk technology with Toshiba's software in place for reading and writing from the disk and handling copyright protection. Toshiba's 0.6 millimeter HD-DVD disk technology will be dropped. The resulting technology will be offered as a new format. It's unclear at this point if the new format will adopt the Blu-ray or the HD-DVD name, or if something completely new will be used.

Sony announced late last year that the next generation PlayStation would make use of the Blu-ray format. The Nihon Keizai article reveals that, as part of the compromise, Blu-ray supporters Sony and Matsushita were demanding the highest possible storage space for future IT and game applications. This would suggest that, even though Blu-ray as it was known is gone, the new merged standard will end up serving as the format for PS3.

Expect further announcements later this week or at E3.
Yes yes yes
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post #22 of 22
5/11/05 at 2:39pm
Don't blow your loads just yet. Toshiba release an announcement yesterday denying the rumors that an agreement had been reached. They also announced that they had come up with a triple-layer HD disc with 45GB of storage to rival the capacity of Blu-Ray. Of course Blu-Ray can do 50GB in two layers, so Toshiba is still kind of inefficient. But in any case, Tosh is probably doing some final-hours posturing to get a better deal out of these negotiations.

Read about it at Digitalbits:

http://www.digitalbits.com/#mytwocents
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