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Were horror films ever any good?

post #1 of 39
4/27/05 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
You know, with this never ending barrage of just shitty horror film after another, is this the way it has always been?

Did the horror films I watch as a kid, just seem good, because I was young and impressionable?

Or, is it that there just isn't many people in horror capable of approaching the genre with any kind of fresh perspective?

What happened, damn it? Can someone explain it to me? Is it just me?

I don't know, I'm just a little disheartened with the state of horror these days...
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post #2 of 39
4/27/05 at 6:57am
You're exactly right, of course.

The horror movies you've seen recently prove that horror movies since the beginning of film have sucked as well. That's why no one ever watches horror films from years past. They suck. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Shit, I watched GARDEN STATE last month and I've decided that all character-driven, coming-of-age films are self-indulgent ego masturbators, so I am hoping everyone in the world stops watching THE GRADUATE.
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post #3 of 39
4/27/05 at 7:33am
You used Sarcasm Incantation Level 17, when you really only needed to use Sarcasm Charm Level 4.
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post #4 of 39
4/27/05 at 8:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouradio
You're exactly right, of course.

The horror movies you've seen recently prove that horror movies since the beginning of film have sucked as well. That's why no one ever watches horror films from years past. They suck. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Shit, I watched GARDEN STATE last month and I've decided that all character-driven, coming-of-age films are self-indulgent ego masturbators, so I am hoping everyone in the world stops watching THE GRADUATE.
Is there suppose to be an elightening message in that biting sracam, like just because something sucks now doesn't mean it always has. No shit, huh? You're a fuckin genius...

It is a legitimate question, I look back on the horror of my youth with rosey red glasses. They could be complete shit and always have been, but I wouldn't agree. I've seen plenty of shitty and semi decent horror films recently, but nothing that seemed to match what I watched growing up.

They are all generic, and predictable or low budget and without charm or freshness.

So, no one feels the same, everyone just loves the current strain of horror films out there? Maybe, that explains it. Then it is just me. So all these crappy horror films out now, are really great. So, be it.
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post #5 of 39
4/27/05 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by billz
You used Sarcasm Incantation Level 17, when you really only needed to use Sarcasm Charm Level 4.
Apologies. I'm often guilty of overkill. I'll get my incantations and charms sorted out ASAP.
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post #6 of 39
4/27/05 at 8:15am
So Ringu isn't a classic?

So Shyamalan's films haven't been masterclasses in creepy suspence?

So Final Destination 2 wasn't hilarious good fun?

We've had a few really good horror films recently and, on the back of their success, an awful lot of crappy ones. Same as it ever was.

And, of course - A film you see when you are 12 will seem more intense and original than a film you see when you are 22, no matter the relative qualities of the films. you even admit that you look back on them with rose tinted glasses.

So what are you arguing? that it is the films' fault that you have grown up a bit?
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post #7 of 39
4/27/05 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack "Sue" Dnim
You know, with this never ending barrage of just shitty horror film after another, is this the way it has always been?

Did the horror films I watch as a kid, just seem good, because I was young and impressionable?

Or, is it that there just isn't many people in horror capable of approaching the genre with any kind of fresh perspective?

What happened, damn it? Can someone explain it to me? Is it just me?

I don't know, I'm just a little disheartened with the state of horror these days...
Have you considered taking the pursuit of public humiliation up as a full time job?
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post #8 of 39
4/27/05 at 9:52am
Apparently no one was interested in an actual conversation, but instead beating the newbie to a bloody pulp.
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post #9 of 39
4/27/05 at 9:57am
What more conversation can there be? The only answer is 'Yes, they were, but they're shite now. It's a shame. Really.' We've been through the whole 'Oh, I wish it was the 70s' thing over and over again and it never solves anything. I also don't really understand the concept of thinking older movies maybe suck because horror sucks now. I don't look back and think "Huh, maybe TAXI DRIVER wasn't so good" because so many edgy dramas now are pants.
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post #10 of 39
4/27/05 at 9:58am
Well, it was just another obnoxious "back in my day, things were better" post.
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post #11 of 39
4/27/05 at 10:19am
70s horror was just as crappy as todays horror. 80s horror was just as bad as 90s horror. Each decade produces a handful of classics, a smattering of good-to-great flicks and an overwhelming flood of absolute shit. Time erases the crappy stuff from memory, and leaves the good stuff on a pedestal. Horror today is no better or worse than any imagined Golden Age of the past.

Feel free to cut-and-paste this the next time the topic comes up.
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post #12 of 39
4/27/05 at 10:23am
With the welcome influx of Asian horror to the major cinema circuits, plus notable efforts from other parts of the globe (28 Days Later, The Devil’s Backbone etc.), I’m struggling to recall a better period for the genre in my lifetime (I was too young to fool diligent cinema attendants when horror was big in the 70s).
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post #13 of 39
4/27/05 at 10:25am
Exactly. I don't know why so many people still ignore Asian horror, when it's producing the best genre stuff we've seen for ages.
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post #14 of 39
4/27/05 at 10:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
70s horror was just as crappy as todays horror. 80s horror was just as bad as 90s horror. Each decade produces a handful of classics, a smattering of good-to-great flicks and an overwhelming flood of absolute shit. Time erases the crappy stuff from memory, and leaves the good stuff on a pedestal. Horror today is no better or worse than any imagined Golden Age of the past.

Feel free to cut-and-paste this the next time the topic comes up.
That's all I wanted. Someone's opinion about the horror I grew up with. Thanks.
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post #15 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:02am
There's always been more "bad" horror produced than "good" horror, but every once in a while, a "good" one comes through and reminds me of why I like the genre.

What disturbs me these days are the sheer number of complete dogshit films that are churned out for DTV and the Sci-Fi channel. I appreciate what Creature Corner and Dread Central are doing for the genre, but why does anybody watch these utter wastes of time, much less anticipate or review them? When's the last time a direct-to-video horror movie was actually good? Stop making them! They're fucking terrible!
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post #16 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch
What disturbs me these days are the sheer number of complete dogshit films that are churned out for DTV and the Sci-Fi channel. I appreciate what Creature Corner and Dread Central are doing for the genre, but why does anybody watch these utter wastes of time, much less anticipate or review them? When's the last time a direct-to-video horror movie was actually good? Stop making them! They're fucking terrible!
No more than the sheer number of complete dogshit films churned out for drive-ins or home video. The current generation of kids just discovering horror will likely look back on Nu Image with the same tongue-in-cheek fondness we do for Full Moon or AIP.

Horror is a cheap exploitation genre. I can't understand why people are still surprised or annoyed that it generates a lot of cheap exploitation films.
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post #17 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
The current generation of kids just discovering horror will likely look back on Nu Image with the same tongue-in-cheek fondness we do for Full Moon or AIP.
Hell, I already do!
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post #18 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:16am
They make enough money to keep doing them, i guess. The are probably slightly better than all the forgotten horror garbage that was made to fill drive-ins during the fifties. There's no difference. They are disposable.

Everyone goes through a period when they think nothing is as good as the films they saw as a kid. I know i did. hopefully everyone then grows up a bit more and realises that a lot of that old stuff was crap too (and you end up with what Dan posted). some never get out of this frame of mind and become bitter old men saying it 'isn't like it was in the good old days'.


edit: would Dan Whitehead please stop pre-empting my posts. it's embarrassing.
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post #19 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fett
Hell, I already do!
The Shark Attack tattoo, with Casper Van Dien and Ernie Hudson on each buttock, was perhaps a tad far though.
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post #20 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:23am
Just be glad you didn't see Pat Morita.
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post #21 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:26am
That mental image proves that horror is not dead. I shall not know sleep now until the endless slumber of death's sweet release.

EEEUUUUU!
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post #22 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:28am
While you're not sleeping, check out CS as I posted about your "music."
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post #23 of 39
4/27/05 at 11:36am
The horror genre is like any other genre out there. You get many awful films and a few good ones here and there. No difference really.
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post #24 of 39
4/27/05 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by billylove
The horror genre is like any other genre out there. You get many awful films and a few good ones here and there. No difference really.

Exactly. There were just as many shitty horror movies every year in the 70's & 80's (if not more) as there are now. It's just that mostly only the good ones are remembered. For those of us who were but children in that time frame, we grew up embracing the select few, as well as various guilty pleasures on the side. Within a decade, shite like Boogeyman and Cursed will be forgotten. The only ones that will be remembered are those that made a huge amount of money, weaseled their way into becoming cult classics, or the horrendously bad ones. No matter how hard we try to forget, we will always remember House of the Dead.
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post #25 of 39
4/27/05 at 3:13pm
I would like to go back in time and show Wes Craven Presents They at a 70's drive-in, and let the audience make the call on which decade's horror films are worse.
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post #26 of 39
4/27/05 at 3:20pm
Sure scratch, as long as you also show a no-budget exorcist rip-off from the seventies to a modern audience.
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post #27 of 39
4/27/05 at 3:29pm
Horror films are like everything else in that they follow Sturgeon's Law: 90% of anything is shit.
The percentage of bad horror films might be higher because it is the kind of film that looks like it is easy to do but is not. Just string a bunch if cliches together and you have a horror film.
Horror films can also be made for much less then many other genres of films and that encourages the quick buck exploitations hacks to move in.
If you are a Horror film fan you just have to resign yourself that for every good one you are going to have to sit through four of five bad ones.
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post #28 of 39
4/27/05 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb
Horror films are like everything else in that they follow Sturgeon's Law: 90% of anything is shit.
The percentage of bad horror films might be higher because it is the kind of film that looks like it is easy to do but is not. Just string a bunch if cliches together and you have a horror film.
Horror films can also be made for much less then many other genres of films and that encourages the quick buck exploitations hacks to move in.
If you are a Horror film fan you just have to resign yourself that for every good one you are going to have to sit through four of five bad ones.

Exactly. There is also the whole copycat influx for when something does well, like we are getting presently with zombie films.
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post #29 of 39
4/27/05 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Clarke
Sure scratch, as long as you also show a no-budget exorcist rip-off from the seventies to a modern audience.
I don't know...the older film at least has some camp value to a modern audience, whereas the new movies will only serve as a chilling glimpse into a bleak future.
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post #30 of 39
4/27/05 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch
I don't know...the older film at least has some camp value to a modern audience, whereas the new movies will only serve as a chilling glimpse into a bleak future.
I imagine they would say the same thing about Wes Craven Presents They, claiming it to be fun to make fun of and how at least it isn't another badly made religious horror film.
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post #31 of 39
4/27/05 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch
I don't know...the older film at least has some camp value to a modern audience, whereas the new movies will only serve as a chilling glimpse into a bleak future.
And today's crap movies will have camp value for future generations.

I really tire of this "the sky is falling" naysaying about the horror genre. If you honestly can't find great horror movies right now, you're not looking hard enough.
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post #32 of 39
4/27/05 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
I really tire of this "the sky is falling" naysaying about the horror genre. If you honestly can't find great horror movies right now, you're not looking hard enough.
Amen.
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post #33 of 39
4/27/05 at 6:48pm
past horror movies and present horror movie my friends and I find to be comidies more then horror. Back when Friday the 13th and nightmare were scary, I take one of my dvds and play it and laugh my ass off on that movie. A lot of the remakes are just trying to get the new kids to see and pay money on these movies. Most people will not go back to the black and white version of house on haunted hill or House of Wax, hey this remake has new stars and better graphics and suck so this will bring money into the movies. Not many people like to go to the foregin aspect of horror, because they want to watch a movie not read it and sometimes it's hard to understand as well. I have watched some foregin ones and some are great and some are utter crap as well. Good Horror is hard to come by but that's all based on preference. Someone could say that movie was great others would say crap utter crap.
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post #34 of 39
4/27/05 at 8:31pm
I don't have a whole lot to add to this discussion that has not already been stated other than to agree that all genres of different decades/time periods have the occasional gem while the majority of the rest of the genre varies from entertaining to flat out horrible films.

Really I just wanted to voice my Opinion that...

"So Shyamalan's films haven't been masterclasses in creepy suspence?"

NO. In fact I personally would say that not one of his films (with the possible exception of Unbreakable) have been masterclasses in any way, let alone of creepy suspense.

And secondly...

"I don't know why so many people still ignore Asian horror, when it's producing the best genre stuff we've seen for ages."

I have only seen the Asian originals of Ju-On and Ringu and did not even mildly enjoy either one and flat out hate the American remakes as well. The Grudge makes me vomit a little in my mouth just thinking about it.

That said any horror fiend is a fiend of mine...GOD that's horrible.
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post #35 of 39
4/27/05 at 9:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch
I don't know...the older film at least has some camp value to a modern audience, whereas the new movies will only serve as a chilling glimpse into a bleak future.
Define older film.
If you mean the Classic Universal horror films only have camp value, I have to strongly disagree.
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post #36 of 39
4/27/05 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb
Define older film.
If you mean the Classic Universal horror films only have camp value, I have to strongly disagree.
He meant "older film" as in the bad horror movie from the 70s that was being used as an example in this hypothetical experiment. It was made pretty clear.
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post #37 of 39
4/27/05 at 10:16pm
The 1880's was the best decade for horror movies. Not a single bad horror movie was made in that ten-year period.

Comics were a fucking joke then, though.
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post #38 of 39
4/28/05 at 12:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
70s horror was just as crappy as todays horror. 80s horror was just as bad as 90s horror. Each decade produces a handful of classics, a smattering of good-to-great flicks and an overwhelming flood of absolute shit. Time erases the crappy stuff from memory, and leaves the good stuff on a pedestal. Horror today is no better or worse than any imagined Golden Age of the past.
Amen to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fett
Exactly. I don't know why so many people still ignore Asian horror, when it's producing the best genre stuff we've seen for ages.
Yes. By all means folks, watch Kaïro before the wretched remake and its planned sequels (!) by the Weinstein Co. show up...

It's interesting to think what the significance of the horror genre is in cinema history. It's a genre which is as old as cinema itself. The very first public screening of a film, the Lumière brothers' l'Arrivée d'un train à la Ciotat (1895), stirred one single emotion in the hearts of its audience: fear. It might be difficult to think of that minute-long recording as a horror film by today's standards, but it did exactly what the horror genre is meant for; it scared the audience. This is the definition of horror in its purest form, a definition which has become a bit muddled from decades of abuse at the hands of inferior talents and profit-minded entrepreneurs.

Where the cheaply made B-horror quickies of the 50s and 60s turned horror into a laughing stock, the legacy of the 70s and 80s, with their increasingly graphic portrayal of violence, added the notion that horror is all about blood and guts. And so cinema's oldest genre has come to achieve its position at the bottom of the ladder of respectability, misunderstood by everyone but a tiny handful of persevering filmmakers.

One of those filmmakers is Kiyoshi Kurosawa. As his breakthrough film Cure (1997) proved, he is a man who not only knows what the term "horror cinema" implies, he has the talent to put horror on screen in its purest form and in the process prove that a horror film can indeed be a work of art. His approach favours the classic tools of the cineaste (cinematography, composition, lighting, editing and sound) over special effects and combines those with highly effective storytelling, rich in themes and significance.

Other than that - good horror still exists, you just have to dig it up a lot of the time.
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post #39 of 39
4/29/05 at 2:16pm
I can think of plenty of older horror movies that are still effective. All are the originals:

The Uninvited
The Bride of Frankenstein
M
The Haunting (still the spookiest movie I've ever seen)
Psycho
I Walked with a Zombie
Night of the Living Dead

The 70s had some great ones:

The Entity
The Exorcist
The Shining
(hm, noticing a pattern)
I would also throw in Dawn of the Dead as still holding up

In the 80s we had American Werewolf in London
The first Nightmare on Elm Street

Not listed is all the crap that was contemporary with these good ones, plus all the good ones that I didn't list. Long story short -- we are living in a time exactly like every other time. We got some crap. We got some good stuff. And we remember the old days as being better.
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