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Attack of the Edit

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
http://www.theforce.net/episode2/sto...ones_91635.asp

The Phantom Editor, the man behind the acclaimed "The Phantom Edit" version of Episode 1, is back. He's finished a similar edit for AOTC. Instead of removing Jar Jar this time, maybe he will remove Hayden Christianson? One can only hope.

On a related note, with all the talk of third parties censoring movies on DVD, is it ok to do if you actually make the original vision *better*? :P
post #2 of 38
Someones bound to have a go at you for making another Star Wars thread dude. So I'll save them the trouble: "You naughty, naughty person!"

Now thats out of the way, I'd love to see an AOTC edit made up of just scenes where Natalie Portman is wearing a hot outfit. And not talking. Get to it.
post #3 of 38
What a fucking asshole.

He kinda ignores the fact that Lucas owns Episodes V and VI.
post #4 of 38
Excellent. I was wondering the other day why this hadn't surfaced sooner.
post #5 of 38
Quote:
My "proactive criticism" is aimed only at one filmmaker - George Lucas.

For years Mr Lucas practiced the re-editing of other director's works as an act of "proactive criticism" suggesting changes where he felt the director had gone off page from the original storytelling ...

...And he did so by re-editing his own version of the director's film. Hmmmm ... Sound familiar?

So please let the entire contents of the DVD serve as my proactive criticism of where I feel George Lucas has gone off page - not only with the storytelling integrity of this film, but the integrity of a beloved piece of film history.

Note: no profit is generated from the creation of this DVD ... And let's keep it that way!

-the phantom editor
Sounds like Lucas stole his lunch money when he was little.
post #6 of 38
or raped him
post #7 of 38
Thread Starter 
So you guys are not in favor? Wouldn't most of you like to selectively edit your OT DVDs? Say, cut out a Greedo laser or two?
post #8 of 38
I'm all for editing your private copies of films, just don't care for his bitter self important tone.
post #9 of 38
If you enjoy the exercise, go ahead edit your heart out.

But altering a work you don't own and then being self-righteous about it is pathetic.

What if I honestly think that Mona Lisa would be better as a blonde? Should I go on and rant about Da Vinci being an asshole and how my personal preferences should be accepted as universal?
post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannychico
So you guys are not in favor? Wouldn't most of you like to selectively edit your OT DVDs? Say, cut out a Greedo laser or two?
I think editing Lucas' movies against his will is just as fucking evil as Clearplay and other like companies. Like it or not, Star Wars is George Lucas' and NO ONE has the right to fuck with it. I love how people scream "artistic integrity and copyright law!!!" when it suits their viewpoint but conveniently forget when the name GL comes up. GL can suck on wang for his "proactive criticism" as well, but mind you stooping to that level just because it's him doesn't make it right. All these phantom editors can chew on ass.
post #11 of 38
Gotta love this guy's timing.

"Let's wait until the hype for SITH is near fever-pitch so I can get even more attention!!"

What a loser.

And shame on TFN and the others for playing right into his hands. People like him with obvious self-important motivations should be completely shunned and ignored, not spotlighted.
post #12 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Cunningham
And shame on TFN and the others for playing right into his hands. People like him with obvious self-important motivations should be completely shunned and ignored, not spotlighted.
You know what they say, Carl, "Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house."
post #13 of 38
So, I do things solely for publicity (even if anonymously) and then solicit it to each and every website and media outlet I can find? Okay, sure. Whatever you say. The "Phantom Editor" and I are indeed two pees in a pod.

Nice "first" post, by the way.
post #14 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly Shore's devil spawn
I think editing Lucas' movies against his will is just as fucking evil as Clearplay and other like companies. Like it or not, Star Wars is George Lucas' and NO ONE has the right to fuck with it. I love how people scream "artistic integrity and copyright law!!!" when it suits their viewpoint but conveniently forget when the name GL comes up. GL can suck on wang for his "proactive criticism" as well, but mind you stooping to that level just because it's him doesn't make it right. All these phantom editors can chew on ass.
I agree. No difference between the morons at Clearplay and the Phantom Edit idiots.
I hated the Phantom Menace, but Lucas made and owns it and he can do what he wants to with it.
The irony is that TPM is so badly flawed that the minor edits the fool made are not going to improve it any.
What makes me sick is that if history repeats itself, go over to www.theforce.net in a couple of days and you will find this guy proclaimed as a hero and "an artist".
Whether or not you think TPM is a masterpiece of a steaming pile of shit is irrevelant to this discussion. Crap like the edit is stupid and wrong to distribute. If you want to do this to your own DVD's that's your right, I guess, but to sell it is wrong,wrong,wrong.

Carl, I posted before seeing your post so I assume that TFN has already begun it protraying this jerk as some kind of heroic artist?
TFN is a joke. They kiss the ass of Lucas but then allow something that Lucas has every right to be mad about to be promoted and praised. I have no respect left for the mods at that website.
post #15 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly Shore's devil spawn
I think editing Lucas' movies against his will is just as fucking evil as Clearplay and other like companies. Like it or not, Star Wars is George Lucas' and NO ONE has the right to fuck with it. I love how people scream "artistic integrity and copyright law!!!" when it suits their viewpoint but conveniently forget when the name GL comes up. GL can suck on wang for his "proactive criticism" as well, but mind you stooping to that level just because it's him doesn't make it right. All these phantom editors can chew on ass.
I agree. No difference between the morons at Clearplay and the Phantom Edit idiots.
I hated the Phantom Menace, but Lucas made and owns it and he can do what he wants to with it.
The irony is that TPM is so badly flawed that the minor edits the fool made are not going to improve it any.
What makes me sick is that if history repeats itself, go over to www.theforce.net in a couple of days and you will find this guy proclaimed as a hero and "an artist".
Whether or not you think TPM is a masterpiece of a steaming pile of shit is irrevelant to this discussion. Crap like the edit is stupid and wrong to distribute. If you want to do this to your own DVD's that's your right, I guess, but to sell it is wrong,wrong,wrong.
post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Cunningham
So, I do things solely for publicity (even if anonymously) and then solicit it to each and every website and media outlet I can find? Okay, sure. Whatever you say. The "Phantom Editor" and I are indeed two pees in a pod.

Nice "first" post, by the way.
Did you mean to say 'pees' Carl? If so, forgive my ignorance to irony

This reminds me of those 'Star Dudes' animations of the films that came out a while back, they were awesome. Never seen the Phantom Edit, isn't that what the 'skip chapter' button on your dvd player is for?
post #17 of 38
BTW I know that the guy who did the Phantom Edit was not involved with the duplication and selling of the edit, but this time he has to know that is exactly what is going to happen with his edit of AOTC.
To sell or give away the Edit of AOTC is just about as clear cut violation of Lucas's copyright legal rights as you can name.
Between the wrong theater line up and this, no wonder Star Wars fans have become laughing stocks...
post #18 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeviatedPrevert
Did you mean to say 'pees' Carl? If so, forgive my ignorance to irony
hahahaha! Actually, no... I didn't mean to. It was a bad typo. I'm gonna leave it, though.
post #19 of 38
Typical whiny little self-important douchebag. I hope they are sued into oblivion.


If this was done in the privacy of his own home, fine, if you can no longer fight off the delusions, have at it, but to take someone else's work and alter it and act like you are doing the world some kind of favor is fucking disgusting.

Clean edit folks can go swallow a turd and die too.
post #20 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Cunningham
So, I do things solely for publicity (even if anonymously) and then solicit it to each and every website and media outlet I can find? Okay, sure. Whatever you say. The "Phantom Editor" and I are indeed two pees in a pod.

Nice "first" post, by the way.
Funny you should say that, because I think you two are more alike then you want to admit to your fan base, since you both have self-important motivations and you are both starving for attention. I am truly amazed that you have gotten this far without a single person here being able to expose you.

I know I don't have any clout here what with my being a "newbie" at posting, but I can assure everyone I have been following these message boards and reading your B.S. for well over a year and a half now. Does it seem odd to anyone else that somebody who claims to have strong connections to Lucasfilm (especially in the capacity that would include non-disclosure agreements) has been spending almost every day consistently posting on an elitist fan site chock-full of illegal content (Behind the Helmet pics, webdocs, etc.)?

Carl, I've watched you debunk rumors that turned out to be true, like when you accused somebody of fabricating an incident where they were shown the opening space battle footage from Ep.III. Then it started popping up on other sites that other people had seen the same thing--and later at ShoWest, no less, and you got really quiet for a while…until things blew over. Several weeks ago, I watched you act like a self-appointed message board constable when you tried to imply there would be consequences for someone who posted certain material (man, I wish I could find that post again), as if you had any real authority. They removed the content and you later told them not to worry, that they had realized their mistake and took action to fix it. I think this incident pissed me off the most--it was a very transparent effort on your part to corner the market on spoilers, so you could stay atop your geek throne and continue to be worshipped by the people you are tricking.

You also got really quiet when Spoilerrific went on a rampage recently, revealing LEGITIMATE, news-breaking spoilers. And while MF.com was posting pictures left and right, we got tidbits like this this from you:

>>This is officially my 16,000th post so I'll make it count:

I've been told to expect news "of some kind" regarding the future of STAR WARS on T.V. at Celebration III in Indianapolis next month…
>>

Wow! Now THAT was a newsflash! Only someone with real insider information would know that there would be a Star Wars-related announcement at an event celebrating Star Wars! And you turned out to be right, what a shocker.

I'm just sick and tired of watching you pass judgment on people and watching your ego grow every time someone appeals to you to settle a debate, as if your word about SW means anything more than the word of the register-jockey at the local comic book store. Why can't you just admit that the extent of your "connections" is a friend or acquaintance who has some surface-level involvement with Lucasfilm, and that you might get thrown the occasional bone or two? I could buy that. But why, instead, do you constantly populate the boards with ambiguous, blanket statements about "big news" that is right around the corner anyway? With you, it's always an empty post about something you've seen that is so "cool" or "controversial," but you haven't once dropped a real bomb. I could just as easily say that I've seen Episode III, then do what you do which is either bring to everyone's attention--for the thousandth time--that I can't talk about anything substantial because I've signed a Non-disclosure agreement, or just go the safe route and say that "it will blow everyone away" or "it will really get the SW fans talking" or some ambiguous (and safe) crap like that. I'd also like to add that these posts of yours often come on the very brink of a big announcement we all know is coming, so as to provide too little time for any questions or investigations that might expose your lack of knowledge or real insider information--like when you alluded to the many "holy-shit moments" in the teaser that you supposedly saw before it came out. Every time you are asked a direct question, you come back with an ambiguous answer. And if it's not ambiguous, it's completely safe--presented in a form where you can fill in the blanks later--after everyone else has been exposed to it. Then you can safely say, "Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about."

I now call these Carl-isms. These are posts like:

"I can't tell you if I saw ROTS, but I can tell you that my opinion of the film will probably be similar to many members on this board." Or,

"I can't say if I've seen ROTS, but I'll leave you with this hint: there was once a driving school instructor who tried to take a bath, but the water was too cold and so he went to the supermarket and bought a head of cabbage that was on sale."

I don't see Pablo hanging around all day on TF.net boards and engaging in meaningless banter with everyone under the sun. If I had to guess, I'd say the reason for this is that he has real ties to Lucasfilm and doesn't have to spend every waking minute trying to prove it to everyone. I have also never seen him dangle the carrot in front of fans, pull it away, then hide behind non-disclosure agreements right after. I know it really gets you off when people beg you to divulge the inside scoops you claim to be privy to.

This "Phantom Editor" is violating copyright laws, plain and simple. I do not support his actions in any way, shape or form, nor am I sticking up for him. I just have a problem listening to a total hypocrite like yourself. Your beef with this guy is not that he's violating copyright laws, but because he's trying (in a pathetic way, you say) to jump into the spotlight. At least this is only his second effort, you do this on a daily basis. And don't go trash-talking and judging the people on TF.net boards for patronizing someone who clearly just wants attention--you don't realize it but you are insulting a lot of your own followers by doing so.
post #21 of 38
Wow... There is so much wrong with that post I do not even know where to begin. I also don't have all night to sit here an deconstruct your "exposure" of me, so I'll just hit on a few points:

Quote:
I don't see Pablo hanging around all day on TF.net boards and engaging in meaningless banter with everyone under the sun. If I had to guess, I'd say the reason for this is that he has real ties to Lucasfilm.
Uh, well... duh. That would be because Pablo is an actual employee of Lucasfilm that works there. I am not and have never once claimed to be. Genius comparison.

Quote:
Does it seem odd to anyone else that somebody who claims to have strong connections to Lucasfilm (especially in the capacity that would include non-disclosure agreements) has been spending almost every day consistently posting on an elitist fan site chock-full of illegal content...

...Several weeks ago, I watched you act like a self-appointed message board constable when you tried to imply there would be consequences for someone who posted certain material (man, I wish I could find that post again), as if you had any real authority. They removed the content and you later told them not to worry, that they had realized their mistake and took action to fix it.
Okay, am I in wrong for posting on "an elitist fan site chock-full of illegal content" or because I try to prevent people from posting said illegal content?? Which is it? And I'm no self-appointed board "constable" as much as I am a personal friend of Nick (who owns this site) and would prefer not to see him get in any legal trouble because of something posted on the boards. But I suppose you and your like will find some kind of malign intent with that as well.

Quote:
You also got really quiet when Spoilerrific went on a rampage recently, revealing LEGITIMATE, news-breaking spoilers. And while MF.com was posting pictures left and right
And this is supposed to mean what, exactly?

Quote:
it was a very transparent effort on your part to corner the market on spoilers, so you could stay atop your geek throne and continue to be worshipped by the people you are tricking.
You're on crack. I am one of the least spoiler-spilling people around... and have been for years now. "Corner the market"? Shit... I'm not even in that market.


Quote:
Why can't you just admit that the extent of your "connections" is a friend or acquaintance who has some surface-level involvement with Lucasfilm, and that you might get thrown the occasional bone or two?
If that's what you want to believe, perfectly fine by me.

Above all, I fail to see how posting on the message boards of a fansite constitutes "trying to jump into the spotlight". Am I sending notes to every other website, posting on every SW related message board, and soliciting the mainstream media for attention? Eh... NO. So, your Phantom Editor analogy remains stale and your attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill has failed miserably. And it's obvious that you are a longtime poster here who has used this new account simply for the purpose to flame anonymously. You must be proud.

But if it really makes you feel any better I think U R mean and your post made me cry like a little girl.
post #22 of 38
I just got my popcorn, please continue. This thread is turning out much better than I could have ever expected ...
post #23 of 38
Sorry, I'm done. I'm too busy crying.
post #24 of 38
I haven't been posting in the last few hundred SW threads, but lately I think maybe 75% of my limited CHUD reading time is spent here. So, first off, thanks to all the contributers. I am so jonesed for III it's crazy.

Second off, this thread just turned real awesome. Okay, so I hit "truth_seeker" read the first three lines then scrolled a bunch down saving it for lunch tomorrow, but I expect great things 12 hours from now.
post #25 of 38
Is coffnrock back? How long can that last?
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_seeker196
Unabomber Manifesto
Jesus, man. Go ride a bike or something.

post #27 of 38
I'm lighting the Whitehead Signal for this thread.

Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-WHITEHEAD!
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunk Ape
I love how self righteous all you Star Wars fans have gotten all the sudden. SITH gets a good review from Kevin Smith (which doesn't count) and all the sudden you're all strutting around with this attitude that all the naysayers have no ground to stand on despite the fact that the past two films have been HORRID. Not to mention that they got early reviews that were positive, too. One good movie, if indeed it IS good, does not save the trilogy.

I used to like being a Star Wars fan. Now it's like a snotty, very uncool clique.

Go ahead, flame me.
We've always been self-righteous. But no, really, go ahead and paint us all with the same brush.
post #29 of 38
Skunk Ape is a poor substitute to truth_seeker196, where is truth seeker? C'mon post man, post!
post #30 of 38
Anybody note how anybody who choosedsa name like "Truth Seeker","Truth Teller" etc, always turns out to be self righteous, preachy, full of himself asshole?
I do not agree with Carl a lot of the time, and have a lower opinion of the prequels then he does. But he is literate, interesting, and tries to maintain a tone of deceny with those he disagree with, and those traits are to be treasured on an Internet htat has been overun by a bunch of illiterate,self righteous, assholes.
post #31 of 38
For all the shouting on this thread, we have come to overwhelming consensus: The guy who did The Phantom Edit and the AOTC edit is an idiot, has no respect for other people's legal and intellectual property, and is a good example of fan behavior at it's shittiest.
post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb
For all the shouting on this thread, we have come to overwhelming consensus: The guy who did The Phantom Edit and the AOTC edit is an idiot, has no respect for other people's legal and intellectual property, and is a good example of fan behavior at it's shittiest.
I'm not sure there is anything "overwhelming" about this thread but I somewhat agree. Sort of. The idea behind creating a fan-made edit is not bad, especially in this case. At the very least, it's an interesting experiment and goes a long way towards proving the point that if Lucas had allowed more collaboration, and not surrounded himself with glaze-eyed sycophants, the Prequels might have turned out better. However, this fan's self-importance, self-promotion and overall need for exposure and distribution is what's ethically uncool. But I understand the impulse. After all, all of the heated debates that surround any creative work generally involve people who think they could do it better. And there's nothing wrong with that. It might even be okay to tinker with someone else's work on your own, just for personal gratification. What's wrong is going beyond simple debate and trying to somehow openly capitalize on someone else's work and property.

Then again, we can get back into the semi-gray area of Lucas tinkering with direction of the late Richard Marquand in the SEs and DVDs. But that whole line of discussion quickly reaches an impasse once you butt creative ethics up against legal ownership. Not to mention that hired-gun Marquand probably wouldn't have cared anyway. So nevermind...

I'd love to hear more from truth_seeker though!
post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration
At the very least, it's an interesting experiment and goes a long way towards proving the point that if Lucas had allowed more collaboration, and not surrounded himself with glaze-eyed sycophants, the Prequels might have turned out better.

Rather a strange extrapolation. Not a proponent of Dadaism are you?
post #34 of 38
This guy sure is getting vilified, isn't he? Maybe he is being a bit whiny and attention-grubbing, but his actions are not exactly evil. I don't know about you guys, but the Phantom Edit has been in existence for, what, six or seven years? I have yet to have seen one frame of it. It doesn't seem to be in any danger of being beemed out to every Star Wars fan on the planet. I see it as an "exercise" just like the editor I suppose. Hell, we did excercises like this in film school. The point of the exercise is obviously different in this case. He wants to posit that a better film can come out of different editing decisions; i am willing to listen to a theory like that. Though I will probably never see this thing only because they seem to be hidden well, for being "distributed."

I know I'm still planning on doing my own edit of Matrix 2 and 3 (into one film) some day, to see what I come up with. To see how different decisions might have impacted the story and the flow. I may even show it to people! I'm EVIL!!!!! AHA hah Ahah hhahahaaaaa!!!!
post #35 of 38
Thread Starter 
A) I have a hard time believing anyone is out for attention when they insist on anonymity.
B) He's not selling or renting this thing. That's the main difference b/w his work and Clearplay's.
C) He's not being self-righteous; he knows people appreciate what he does and he gives them what they want - for free.
D) If I edited my own copies of movies (as we will all do someday when everything's on our personal hard drives), I would sure as hell want to show off my work to my friends. If it's something I believed in, why not share it?
post #36 of 38
I think the guy asks for trouble with the self righteous attitude he shows in his press releases.
And he whole "Lucas should Listen To The Fans" is so fucking wrong. The longer I live the more I feel that catering to the whims of the fans is a sure way to disaster.


"Then again, we can get back into the semi-gray area of Lucas tinkering with direction of the late Richard Marquand in the SEs and DVDs."
These films, all of them. are Lucas's babies. He has always had creative control. Both Kershner and Marquand were hired guns to put the actors through their paces, not the creative guy behind the film.
Producers, if they originate a project, almost always have a strong say in the editing of a film. Much more so in the case of Lucas and Star Wars. I am willing to bet that both Marquand and Kershner had only minor roles in the editing of the films. Actually, that was the way it was in Hollywood in the golden age and some pretty good films got made that way. Up until the mid 1950's many directors, including some of the top names, job pretty much ended when they shouted cut on the final scene and then the producer took over post production. It seems to me that a producer can be the main force behind a film as well as the director.
post #37 of 38
Actually, Kershner had a huge effect on EMPIRE, which is why Lucas alledgely went for Marquand after Kersh turned JEDI down and he couldn't get SS, because he wanted someone who would be easier to control. However, Kersh did sign off on the ESB SE.
post #38 of 38
I actually started working on a matrix reedit (it was titled The Matrix ReEdited and yes it has a multi page thread around here). I was surprised how much could be edited out, but then something hit me very hard about the film, everything had a purpose. I would remove dialouge, but I had to remove dialouge that supported that dialouge and further references to it. Then minor things in Reloaded made sense with Revolutions put right beside it (like Seraph's line of not knowing a person till you fight them). I caved into learning about the film, and fell into the geek pit, and now I actually like 2 and 3 as is. I did get it down to 3 hours, but it felt hollowed out.

I will give you a slight cookie though:
the entire opening can be edited to make it look like Neo is waking from his dream and then goes to check on Trinity in another room (thus making the sex sequence a little more justified, but I do understand why its there, and yes I left in the rave to a certain extent).
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