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I really wonder about humanity sometimes...

post #1 of 68
5/5/05 at 4:22am
Thread Starter 
Earlier this evening, the body of an infant baby was found in a dumpster behind the freshman dorms here at SHSU. The baby was a newborn, and according to some of the students who live in the dorms, they heard crying coming from one of the rooms down the hallway last night. Police have done a total sweep of all the rooms in the dorm, but nothing has been released as of yet.

I really just wonder about humanity sometimes, especially when stuff like this happens right across the street from where I live.
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post #2 of 68
5/5/05 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-dude
Earlier this evening, the body of an infant baby was found in a dumpster behind the freshman dorms here at SHSU. The baby was a newborn, and according to some of the students who live in the dorms, they heard crying coming from one of the rooms down the hallway last night. Police have done a total sweep of all the rooms in the dorm, but nothing has been released as of yet.

I really just wonder about humanity sometimes, especially when stuff like this happens right across the street from where I live.
I think this throws open the wider question: what is it about our society that convinces so many young women abandoning a baby is the only choice left open to them?
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post #3 of 68
5/5/05 at 6:19am
I also wonder about the reason for them doing this. Especially in California where there are laws in place that make it able for anybody to come in and drop off a newborn baby in a hospital no questions asked. I mean why leave it in a dumpster to die when you can still retain your anonymity(sp?) and have it live.
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post #4 of 68
5/5/05 at 7:43am
Seeing as how our society makes them feel ashamed to be having sex, ashamed to want birth control, and ashamed to seek an abortion, just dumping the thing in the trash seems like the next natural step.
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post #5 of 68
5/5/05 at 9:18am
The abandonment of babies happens in just about every species out there. Humans are no exeptions. Society is probably not to blame so much as a chemical unbalance similar to post-partem depression.
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post #6 of 68
5/5/05 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
The abandonment of babies happens in just about every species out there. Humans are no exeptions. Society is probably not to blame so much as a chemical unbalance similar to post-partem depression.
I don't agree with this. Plenty of women go through post-partum depression (the baby blues). Some to the degree that they cannot even interact with the infant, or feel like hurting them. They still don't have the baby in secret and throw it in a dumpster.

Maternal instinct is very strong. Even in the case of a chemical imbalance.
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post #7 of 68
5/5/05 at 10:42am
It's not something you can agree or disagree with. Infant abandonment is a fact of nature as old as life itself.
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post #8 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Seeing as how our society makes them feel ashamed to be having sex, ashamed to want birth control, and ashamed to seek an abortion, just dumping the thing in the trash seems like the next natural step.
Now that's just bullshit. We also teach that leaving your fucking baby in a dumpster is one of the most morally reprehensible things a person can do. Just because we are a society of prudes doesn't mean that murder is the, "next natural step."

I don't care how "helpless" she felt, or how ashamed. Fry her ass. If it's PPD, then lock her up for a good 10-20 years with the loo-loos who think they're Napoleon.
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post #9 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
It's not something you can agree or disagree with. Infant abandonment is a fact of nature as old as life itself.
Infant abandonment out of religious (or other form of) intolerance isn't.
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post #10 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:14am
Huh?
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post #11 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:16am
Over here we put babies in suitcases and hide them in attics.
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post #12 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
It's not something you can agree or disagree with. Infant abandonment is a fact of nature as old as life itself.
Agreed. However, humans are thinking beings. This means that we can choose whether or not to do it. And if we indeed choose to do so, there are generally support structures in place to take the child.

I'm not buying that the mother abandoned the baby because of some hormonal imbalance. Whence,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster
I think this throws open the wider question: what is it about our society that convinces so many young women abandoning a baby is the only choice left open to them?
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post #13 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
Huh?
You've never heard of babies being abandoned because they are the wrong sex or they have been conceived out of wedlock?
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post #14 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volta
Agreed. However, humans are thinking beings. This means that we can choose whether or not to do it. And if we indeed choose to do so, there are generally support structures in place to take the child.

I'm not buying that the mother abandoned the baby because of some hormonal imbalance. Whence,
I'm not attempting to excuse her behavior, nor do I presume to say I fully understand it.
I'm just pointing out to G-dude that society isn't always to blame.
There are some crazy fucking hormones going on in a mother's body that can result in abandonment or murder. There are plenty of documented cases of mothers systematically killing their children. These crimes are rooted in personal medical disorders, not society at large.
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post #15 of 68
5/5/05 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Seeing as how our society makes them feel ashamed to be having sex, ashamed to want birth control, and ashamed to seek an abortion, just dumping the thing in the trash seems like the next natural step.
Considering how much sex happens, how well condoms sell and how easy they are to get, and how easy it is to get an abortion/how many abortions happen I don't buy this.
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post #16 of 68
5/5/05 at 12:03pm
Oh, give me a fucking break, Scotty-Boy.
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post #17 of 68
5/5/05 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Eucalyptus
Considering how much sex happens, how well condoms sell and how easy they are to get, and how easy it is to get an abortion/how many abortions happen I don't buy this.
It's more difficult swallow in the culturally advanced US, but I can assure you in places such as Africa condoms often aren't easy to get (especially in areas under the influence of the Catholic Church) and abortions that don't involve some witch-doctor shoving a knitting needle into a fetus are almost out of the question.

And let's not forget China, where baby girls are regularly tossed into rubbish bins - or worse.
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post #18 of 68
5/5/05 at 12:35pm
Having a baby would be such a drag and probably get in the way of of quarter draw night and drunken hook-ups.

Seriously though, there's no excuse for this, societal pressures or not. A college aged woman is old enought to know better. And for the record, I don't think any amount of free-sex, pro birth control agenda would make a bit of difference in cases like this. If anything, unwed mothers are more accepted today that at any other point in recent history as are abortions. Hell, they're trying to make the day-after pill OTC.
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post #19 of 68
5/5/05 at 1:30pm
I say it IS society's fault! It is society's fault for allowing unregulated breeding. Ideally there would be a perfected birth control administered to all young men and women just after puberty. (Possible with adequate funding). The government would tightly control the reversing drug or technique. In order to have children a person or couple would be required to pass tests both of the genetic and Q&A kind. The idea would be to weed out the most obviously unfit parents. I think there ought to be a minimum income requirement as well. The test evaluators would never meet the people being tested, or know their name or race. Every year the government would have exact figures as to how many newborns will be entering the population and would be required by law to properly budget for their needs. This is getting long so I'll stop now.
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post #20 of 68
5/5/05 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Black
I say it IS society's fault! It is society's fault for allowing unregulated breeding. Ideally there would be a perfected birth control administered to all young men and women just after puberty. (Possible with adequate funding). The government would tightly control the reversing drug or technique. In order to have children a person or couple would be required to pass tests both of the genetic and Q&A kind. The idea would be to weed out the most obviously unfit parents. I think there ought to be a minimum income requirement as well. The test evaluators would never meet the people being tested, or know their name or race. Every year the government would have exact figures as to how many newborns will be entering the population and would be required by law to properly budget for their needs. This is getting long so I'll stop now.
Bottle of mine, it’s you I’ve always wanted!
Bottle of mine, why was I ever decanted?
Skies are blue inside of you,
The weather’s always fine;
For
There aint no Bottle in all the world
Like that dear little Bottle of mine.

Now sing it again!
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post #21 of 68
5/5/05 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster
It's more difficult swallow in the culturally advanced US, but I can assure you in places such as Africa condoms often aren't easy to get (especially in areas under the influence of the Catholic Church) and abortions that don't involve some witch-doctor shoving a knitting needle into a fetus are almost out of the question.

And let's not forget China, where baby girls are regularly tossed into rubbish bins - or worse.
He did say "our society" and it was that I was responding to.
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post #22 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:05pm
Christ, you're dense.
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post #23 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:28pm
Cool it, Rath.
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post #24 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster
Bottle of mine, it’s you I’ve always wanted!
Bottle of mine, why was I ever decanted?
Skies are blue inside of you,
The weather’s always fine;
For
There aint no Bottle in all the world
Like that dear little Bottle of mine.

Now sing it again!
The mockery made him feel an outsider; and feeling an outsider he behaved like one, which increased the prejudice against him and intensified the contempt and hostility aroused by his physical defects. Which in turn increased his sense of being alien and alone. A chronic fear of being slighted made him avoid his equals, made him stand, where his inferiors were concerned, self-consciously on his dignity
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post #25 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:37pm
Blame it all on society, pagans, christians, muslims, women, men, liberals, conservatives yadda yadda yadda ect etc etc. Personal accountability is a dirty word no one utters these days.
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post #26 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
Blame it all on society. Personal accountability is a dirty word no one utters these days.
Personal accountability is great but it doesn't get the baby out of the dumpster.
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post #27 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:43pm
All your base belong to us!
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post #28 of 68
5/5/05 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
Personal accountability is a dirty word no one utters these days.
I guess math is a dirty word too.
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post #29 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
Blame it all on society, pagans, christians, muslims, women, men, liberals, conservatives yadda yadda yadda ect etc etc. Personal accountability is a dirty word no one utters these days.
Compassion, it seems, is an even dirtier one.
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post #30 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:15pm
I really wonder about humanity sometimes, too. Threads like this are stark reminder as to why.
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post #31 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyinjammies
Cool it, Rath.
I'm sorry, do you mod this forum?
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post #32 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:36pm
Cool it, Rath.
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post #33 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
I'm sorry, do you mod this forum?
I'm sorry, do YOU?

No, I don't, but I also don't believe I was out of line for asking you to back off. You could have offered a valid arguement as to WHY you felt Scott was being dense rather than being so dismissive and condescending.

I expect better from you, Rath.
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post #34 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
I'm sorry, do you mod this forum?
Cool it, Douchebag.
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post #35 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:42pm
The posts in this thread have turned out to be as creepy as the subject being discussed.

You hear that Helix? I just compared you to a dumpster with a baby in it!
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post #36 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:44pm
I'm hurt.
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post #37 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:49pm
Q: What is worse than 10 dead babies in a garbage can?
A: One dead baby in a ten garbage cans.
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post #38 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:55pm
Back on topic, there was a "baby-dumping" in the town I live in on Monday.

Linky

Quote:
ARLINGTON, Texas — Police are trying to find the mother of a newborn baby boy found dead inside a duffel bag.

A man mowing a lawn at a southwest Arlington home discovered a black duffel bag behind a shed Monday night, police said. When he looked inside the bag, the man found a decomposing full-term baby with its umbilical cord still attached.

Police said the baby appeared to be white or Hispanic with a full head of straight black hair. Women's clothing, including a purple robe, also was found inside the bag.

Investigators do not know whether the child was stillborn or born alive and later died. The Tarrant County Medical Examiner's Office is trying to determine the cause of death.

Police hope to talk to anyone with information about a woman who was recently about to deliver and now cannot account for the baby.

___
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post #39 of 68
5/5/05 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyinjammies
I expect better from you, Rath.
Gee, thanks, mom.

I'll quit now. But don't ever expect to tell me what to do if you're not in charge.
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post #40 of 68
5/5/05 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
All your base belong to us!
Actually, I believe the quote is "All your base ARE belong to us!"

just...fyi
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post #41 of 68
5/5/05 at 4:55pm
Shocking as it may be, infanticide is nothing new and it's not a "humanity" problem, it's a "societal evolution" problem.
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post #42 of 68
5/5/05 at 5:53pm
Abandoning babies is something that has happened since the beginning of time, sure. But that doesn't translate into a need to kill the baby, or make it disappear. I mean, if that was the case, you'd probably have mothers instinctively eating their children. Even if you ignore the fact that child abandonment in the natural world generally happens due to a lack of food or other resource, not arbitrarily, there's still the problem of why people, making the conscious decision to get rid of their child, do it in ways that are anonymous and lethal.

I don't think blaming societal guilt is too much of a stretch here. Unless you "personal responsibility" types really think that that many women are just psychopathic child-killers.
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post #43 of 68
5/5/05 at 6:17pm
As a "personal responsibility" type, I suppose I sort of do think that women who dispose of newborn infants in dumpsters are "child killers". Fuck me for thinking, I suppose. All that societal evolution jazz is just an abstraction, a dispersion of liability. I may feel sorrow or anger or whatever, but I feel absolutely no guilt or complicity in that behavior and I have no inner need to justify it in order to demonstrate the kind of faux humility and pretense of empathy making the rounds these days.

Kill baby = bad, goddammit!!!!
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post #44 of 68
5/5/05 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyinjammies
Back on topic, there was a "baby-dumping" in the town I live in on Monday.

Linky
Wow...timely. I missed that in the DMN. or was it only in the Arlington papers? If so, proof that it is more common than we'd like to think if it didn't make it newsworthy in a city 15 miles away.
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post #45 of 68
5/5/05 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Necessiter
As a "personal responsibility" type, I suppose I sort of do think that women who dispose of newborn infants in dumpsters are "child killers". Fuck me for thinking, I suppose. All that societal evolution jazz is just an abstraction, a dispersion of liability. I may feel sorrow or anger or whatever, but I feel absolutely no guilt or complicity in that behavior and I have no inner need to justify it in order to demonstrate the kind of faux humility and pretense of empathy making the rounds these days.

Kill baby = bad, goddammit!!!!
Yeah and as someone who helps humans and animals in need continually I have little compassion or sympathy for people that would kill such defenseless and innocent life.
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post #46 of 68
5/6/05 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster
It's more difficult swallow in the culturally advanced US, but I can assure you in places such as Africa condoms often aren't easy to get ....
I'm sorry, did you say culturally advanced? What do you mean exactly when you say that, because that's a pretty slippery concept that you've just introduced.
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post #47 of 68
5/6/05 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suttytx
Wow...timely. I missed that in the DMN. or was it only in the Arlington papers? If so, proof that it is more common than we'd like to think if it didn't make it newsworthy in a city 15 miles away.
Not sure which paper it was in, but it was all over the NBC affiliate Tuesday morning.
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post #48 of 68
5/6/05 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeo
I'm sorry, did you say culturally advanced? What do you mean exactly when you say that, because that's a pretty slippery concept that you've just introduced.
Yes, you are probably right. There's a touch too much ambiguity in the phrase "culturally advanced". I shouldn't have used it.

What I meant to say is - in nations, such as the US, where the value of human life is generally quite high.
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post #49 of 68
5/6/05 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyinjammies
I expect better from you, Rath.
I used to, but I'm not sure why.
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post #50 of 68
5/6/05 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster
What I meant to say is - in nations, such as the US, where the value of human life is generally quite high.
Human life's value high in the US? I disagree.
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