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I just got impressed by....John Mayer?

post #1 of 55
5/8/05 at 11:47pm
Thread Starter 
I have a feeling I may get ripped to shreds for this one, but here goes. So, I'm going to bed last night, and I flip on the t.v. for a bit while I'm laying there. In flipping channels, I hear some excellent bluesy lead guitar coming out of public television. I look at the screen to see who's playing, and its vanilla crooner John Mayer. Imagine my surprise when I start to be incredibly impressed by the guy who I previously thought was a low rent Dave Matthews(who I've never been a big fan of either). I say this to you now, John Mayer is an extraordinarily good guitar player when he straps on an electric. Apparently his abilities have been noticed, as he was joined onstage by Buddy Guy, then later backed up by SRV's former cover band Double Trouble. I'm not going to commit the sacrelige of saying it was anything close to a Vaughn performance, but it was still damned impressive. I guess I shouldnt be too surprised, since I did know that Mayer went to Berklee conservatory, which is a great school, but still. I think if he were to stay away from the middle of the road acoustic numbers, this guy could be great.

O.k., all that being said, thoughts? Impressions? Also, anyone else had a similiar mind changing experience for the positive with another artist?
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post #2 of 55
5/9/05 at 12:00am
I was surprised when he appeared on Chappelle's Show because I thought he was much too bland to hang out there. I didn't see what you saw, but if I did I'd probably be surprised.

But then they'd play that friggin' "Fathers be good to your daughters" song on the radio and I'd still want to harvest his kidneys.

On a semi-related note, Punch Drunk Love made me calm my hate for Adam Sandler for a while. And Gary Cole has completely made me forget about how much he annoyed me back during his Midnight Caller days.

All that being said, You live in Towson! I used to live just down York Road from Towson!
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post #3 of 55
5/9/05 at 12:06am
Thread Starter 
Lived here for 7 years friend, right off of york road (off of knollwood, if you know where that is). And yeah, I totally agree about the daughters song, and the "run through the halls of my highschool" song. That's why I was so impressed, it was like two different artists completely.
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post #4 of 55
5/9/05 at 12:19am
I like that Chappelle's show bit a lot. I think the guy's quite talented, even though he makes middle of the road soft rock/folk pop, and from what I can tell in interviews, he seems to be a nice guy.

That no talent asshat named Jack Johnson, on the other hand...
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post #5 of 55
5/9/05 at 12:22am
Thread Starter 
Johnson, who is, by the way, starting a jam-band with Eddie Vedder, Kirk Hammet, and I think the drummer from The Mars Volta. That to me is the equivalent of William Hung having a 3-some with Lohan and Cuthbert.
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post #6 of 55
5/9/05 at 12:23am
At the store I work at, I've had to listen to the entire John Mayer album about 4-5 times, and Jack Johnson at least 12 times. Both guys deserve to be buried in mass graves in Bosnia, but I'd say the John Mayer album is at least twice as bad.
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post #7 of 55
5/9/05 at 3:15am
I've seen a performance by him on the tele and saw him get his blues on and was quite shocked as well. But shit, that white boy can play.
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post #8 of 55
5/9/05 at 7:54am
John Mayer is a pretty cool guy, I can't fault him for anything. I may not normally listen to that genre of music but at least I'm not blind enough to think that that means that it's 'bad' music. He's talented.

But what makes me love the guy would be his spot on Chapelle and his little-seen TV show that was on vh1. Hilarious stuff. I respect him all the much more for that.
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post #9 of 55
5/9/05 at 11:33am
I hope you folks that respect him for his "talent" never actually listen to his wretched album, so you can continue to live in your fantasy worlds.
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post #10 of 55
5/9/05 at 9:53pm
I spent three horrendous weeks listening to "Your Body Is A Wonderland" at least five times a day when working at a radio station.

The guy has talent.
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post #11 of 55
5/9/05 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
I spent three horrendous weeks listening to "Your Body Is A Wonderland" at least five times a day when working at a radio station.

The guy has talent.
Correct...in fact, there's no question regarding his talent. The guy can flat-out burn up an electric blues guitar, and from listening to him in interviews and shit, it seems like that's his passion.

Which makes it all the more frustrating that he keeps puking out the bland, easy-listening pap. I understand that it pays the bills quite well, but the guy's successful enough now that there's no excuse for him not to make a bluesier, ballsier record.
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post #12 of 55
5/10/05 at 11:13am
Gist, word on the street is that's exactly what he's going to do on his next record. I hope that's not a load of bullshit because his last album was pretty much not good (except for "Clarity").
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post #13 of 55
5/10/05 at 11:34am
What does being able to shred on an instrument have to do with an artist's music being good or not?
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post #14 of 55
5/10/05 at 11:38am
Eddie Van Halen weeps in agreement.
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post #15 of 55
5/10/05 at 3:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micah Robinson
What does being able to shred on an instrument have to do with an artist's music being good or not?
Not a whole lot. I think it does have some, having technical ability to play fast and cram a lot of notes is a good tool for an artist to have in his utility belt, but there are certainly some of the best musicians out there who have never played a note-cramming passage in their life. However, The thing that impressed me in my initial post was not Mayer's speed or dexterity(if it was, I would have pointed that out) it was the fact that he had a great amount of soul in his playing (I did not point that out, I should have). If this guy continues the path of that playing, and not the path of vanilla, he has the potential for being absolutely incredible, and worthy of being spoken in the same breath as the greats he idolizes. I am in no way saying he is there yet, I am saying however that if Buddy Guy and Double Trouble are all willing to hop on stage with him, I think he must be heading in the right direction.
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post #16 of 55
5/10/05 at 3:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Clarke
Eddie Van Halen weeps in agreement.
Is that an "Eddie is great" comment, or an "Eddie sucks" comment? Just curious.
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post #17 of 55
5/10/05 at 3:40pm
I'm not saying, Seemil.

Now, over in England the general perception is that Americans REALLY respect technically gifted bands. they demand serious chops from their live performances. Not a bad thing to expect i guess, but the implication is that you lot think a band is good just because they can play technically accomplished music.
A lot of english bands bitch that america does not appreciate their passion and art just because they can't play 20 minute jams.
Now lord knows i'm bored rigid these days by noisy bunches of kids claiming their racket is the 'future' when their sound is due to them simply not being able to play anything else - it hardly smacks of deliberate artistic statement.
Also i'm pretty sure a lot of this bitching comes from English bands' continued difficulty in breaking america.

But - is there any truth to this perception? That Americans weight technical virtuosity too heavily over passion? There's a famous story of when Metallica came over here and while Lars Ulrich was doing one of his drum solos all he could see was people in the crowd hand-signalling him to get on with it.
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post #18 of 55
5/10/05 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 
Where did all the incredible blues music that inspired the british invasion come from? Sorry, that sounded very snide, I don't intend it to be that way, but my point being it's not an across the board "America only likes shredders" feeling over here that I can attest to. Even in the case of "King Edward", I think some of his more inspired playing comes when he slows down, or inserts slower sections into his more blistering solos. My favorite player is David Gilmour, from your side of the pond, but he may also be tied with SRV. In David's case, he has never been accused of being a technical virtuoso, but more a bluesy, even jazzy soulful player. In Vaughns case, the man played incredibly slow, the man played incredibly fast, didn't matter, it was all gold. I think technicality has its place, there is certainly much to be said for someone who has taken the time to master their craft, but no amount of notes played can make up for a lack of personality and feeling. So, I guess to make a long story long, technical prowess is a welcome addition, and doesnt preclude being a great player, but more stock in my opinion goes into feeling.
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post #19 of 55
6/5/09 at 8:38pm
Thread Starter 
Bump. After watching the John Mayer Trio on The Tonight Show last night, I have come to the conclusion that he needs to never pick up an acoustic guitar again. The guy can straight KILL when he's playing blues. I know that doesn't sell nearly as much as his Mix106 fare, but fuck it, he's made enough money, right? The guy is phenomenal on guitar, he owes it to himself to keep playing like that.
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post #20 of 55
6/5/09 at 9:51pm
Haha, gay.

*punches Chris Miller in the stomach*
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post #21 of 55
6/5/09 at 9:52pm
Also, I need to catch up on Conan, so I'll save my actual constructive responses for as soon as I finish this week up.
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post #22 of 55
6/5/09 at 9:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Haha, gay.

*punches Chris Miller in the stomach*
Punch me all you want big guy. But after you watch him, tell me the Texan in you doesn't hear some SRV in the guy.
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post #23 of 55
6/5/09 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
Punch me all you want big guy. But after you watch him, tell me the Texan in you doesn't hear some SRV in the guy.
I've heard that he pays a fair bit of lip service to SRV in interviews, which I'm absolutely fine with. I just haven't really heard much of him aside from "Your Vagina Is A Funhouse" and that one "Real World" song.
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post #24 of 55
6/5/09 at 10:04pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, let me reiterate: His hit singles, the ones that sell well, are shitty, formulaic, and boring. Mean blues guitar player though.
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post #25 of 55
6/5/09 at 11:50pm
He's one of those folks who's actually really funny and has a great personality, but none of it ever makes it into his music. See also: Coldplay.
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post #26 of 55
6/6/09 at 1:58am
I've heard good things about his album Continuum. 'Waiting on the World to Change' actually didn't annoy me as a lead single. 'Gravity' is actually a pretty cool tune, too. Some sharp playing on that one.
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post #27 of 55
6/6/09 at 2:19am
Thread Starter 
See, "Waiting on the World to Change" annoys the shit out of me. It's not too far off from Clapton's "My Father's Eyes", which (in my opinion), is another example of a great guitar player playing a shitty shmaltzy song. This is the kind of shit I wish Mayer did all of the time.
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post #28 of 55
6/6/09 at 4:34am
Continuum is probably the closest we'll get to Mayer melding his Trio persona with his Top 40 persona. "Waiting on the World to Change" eats it but the rest of the album is pretty good. The Trio record is his best, though. I'd say his best non-Trio cut would be "Clarity" off of Heavier Things. He got ?uestlove to lay down the drum track.
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post #29 of 55
6/7/09 at 12:14pm
The way I feel about John Mayer is the same way I feel about Dane Cook when watching his standup. There's so much shit, but when the good stuff comes out, it's either ignored or lumped in with the junk so much that it becomes junk by proxy.

For example, old Dane Cook (before he got big) was really good stuff, especially his Comedy Central Presents stuff. Old John Mayer was really good too. Then the girlies came out and they both lost their appeal by making junk. Yet, there's still some stuff they have released recently that shines like before. Some songs by Mayer and his guitar playing (yes, he's rocked like that for years) are great as the new Dane Cook isn't all that bad either.

Call me crazy though.
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post #30 of 55
6/7/09 at 1:16pm
I hate John Mayer, but I love this cover. Though admittedly it may be because I really like the song, regardless of who sings it.

In the related section of You Tube I came across this 2007 Grammy Awards performance. Man, Mayer looks coked out.
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post #31 of 55
6/7/09 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
Where did all the incredible blues music that inspired the british invasion come from? Sorry, that sounded very snide, I don't intend it to be that way, but my point being it's not an across the board "America only likes shredders" feeling over here that I can attest to.....I think technicality has its place, there is certainly much to be said for someone who has taken the time to master their craft, but no amount of notes played can make up for a lack of personality and feeling. So, I guess to make a long story long, technical prowess is a welcome addition, and doesnt preclude being a great player, but more stock in my opinion goes into feeling.
I think England's whining is based on the fact that the "best" guitarist they've turned out has been Clapton (really, it's Beck, but that's not the point), whereas we Seppos can claim Jimi, EVH, SRV, Duane Allman, Eddie Hazel, etc...all of whom flat-out smoke Clapton by any standard you want to measure them.
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post #32 of 55
6/7/09 at 1:56pm
John Mayer has been good for quite a while. Its sad i think when people hear his name they just automatically dismiss him. Aside from Waiting On The World to Change Continuim is a great album and his trio stuff is gold.
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post #33 of 55
6/7/09 at 2:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
I think England's whining is based on the fact that the "best" guitarist they've turned out has been Clapton (really, it's Beck, but that's not the point), whereas we Seppos can claim Jimi, EVH, SRV, Duane Allman, Eddie Hazel, etc...all of whom flat-out smoke Clapton by any standard you want to measure them.
I'd put David Gilmour against Eric Clapton or Jeff Beck any day. Hell, Roger Waters tried to replace Dave with those two after he left Floyd. Of course ,I'm an unabashed Gilmour disciple, so that should be accompanied with a grain of salt.
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post #34 of 55
6/7/09 at 2:17pm
David Gilmour? No way!

Chavez: England also turned out Jimmy Page & Peter Green. And George Harrison.

Clapton is England's best. He's been old and boring for so long people forget his glory days.

His stuff with Cream is more interesting to me than Zep. His playing with the Dominos so alive and passionate.

(When has Gilmour ever been passionate?)

On topic: If I ever buy a John Mayer album...somebody shoot me in the head!
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post #35 of 55
6/7/09 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
David Gilmour? No way!

Chavez: England also turned out Jimmy Page & Peter Green. And George Harrison.
And Robin Trower. When Robin's ON, he's better than any of those guys.
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post #36 of 55
6/7/09 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
And Robin Trower. When Robin's ON, he's better than any of those guys.
I was kind of going for "name" guitar players rather than niche players.

Heck, if we're doing that, you can throw Al Di Meola and Steve Vai up there. Although I'd say that Peter Frampton may be the classic rock guy suffering from John Mayer disease - the man can shred but all they play by him is "Baby I Love Your Way" and "Show Me the Way" - both of which sorta, well, suck.
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post #37 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:01pm
I was merely citing an additional British guitarist, that's all. I also wouldn't call Robin a 'niche' player; he was part of that British invasion of incredible guitarists in the late 60s/early 70s (Robin was guitarist for Procol Harem before branching out on his own).

Another great British guitarist that Fat Elvis missed: Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple/Rainbow). Would you call hime a 'niche' guitarist?
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post #38 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I was merely citing an additional British guitarist, that's all. I also wouldn't call Robin a 'niche' player; he was part of that British invasion of incredible guitarists in the late 60s/early 70s (Robin was guitarist for Procol Harem before branching out on his own).

Another great British guitarist that Fat Elvis missed: Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple/Rainbow). Would you call hime a 'niche' guitarist?
Should we move this over to the "lists" forum? Then we can just crank out lists of good players.

Youse guys just can't let somebody poke at the Brits, can you?
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post #39 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
Heck, if we're doing that, you can throw Al Di Meola and Steve Vai up there. Although I'd say that Peter Frampton may be the classic rock guy suffering from John Mayer disease - the man can shred but all they play by him is "Baby I Love Your Way" and "Show Me the Way" - both of which sorta, well, suck.
Dead on, Chavez. Frampton is as good as they come but most of the world doesn't know it. Hell, he inspired one of the great Doonesbury characters, Jimmy Thudpucker.

I feel for Mayer. The Crossroads concert showed the guy can play the hell out of the blues but his fans want all that adult contemporary crap.
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post #40 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

Another great British guitarist that Fat Elvis missed: Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple/Rainbow). Would you call hime a 'niche' guitarist?
Ha. I'm reminded of that Kids in The Hall sketch where a teenager takes on the devil in a guiltar duel. The Devil goes into some shredding Steve Vai-type bullshit--the kid comes back with Smoke on The Water! The ultimate riff for the win!
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post #41 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
Should we move this over to the "lists" forum? Then we can just crank out lists of good players.

Youse guys just can't let somebody poke at the Brits, can you?
I have no problem poking fun at the Brits when they deserve it. You made a blanket statement regarding British guitarists being 'smoked' by American guitarists, and YOU started the whole 'list' thing by rattling off a bunch of American guitarists.

Just sayin'.

eta: Frampton's got the chops; unfortunately, you'll never get to hear what he's capable of on the radio.
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post #42 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Frampton's got the chops; unfortunately, you'll never get to hear what he's capable of on the radio.
That end solo in "Do You Feel Like We Do?" is pretty awesome. The problem is you've gotta listen to 4 or 5 minutes of grabass to get to it.
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post #43 of 55
6/7/09 at 3:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

(When has Gilmour ever been passionate?)
I.......I...............AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURURUGGRRU GGHGH!!!!!!

That is what went through my brain when you asked that question. Pistols at dawn Fat Elvis.
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post #44 of 55
6/7/09 at 4:28pm
I'll be your second, Chris.

As a live performer, Gilmour may not be the most demostrative guitarist out there. But you can't listen to any recorded output, live or studio, where his passion isn't in the forefront of what he's playing.
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post #45 of 55
6/8/09 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
David Gilmour? No way!

Chavez: England also turned out Jimmy Page & Peter Green. And George Harrison.

Clapton is England's best. He's been old and boring for so long people forget his glory days.

His stuff with Cream is more interesting to me than Zep. His playing with the Dominos so alive and passionate.

(When has Gilmour ever been passionate?)

On topic: If I ever buy a John Mayer album...somebody shoot me in the head!
I really wouldn't rank George Harrison, as a songwriter, yes but as a guitar player, I'm sorry, I just don't buy it, yeah, he was the lead guitarist in the beatles but he's not in the class of Clapton and Page.

As far as Gilmour having no passion, that's just wrong, his entire style is just one passion filled embrace, no-one and I mean no-one can bend those strings like him and produce the sound he get's, if it had a voice, it would make you cry, that's passion.

Oh, and the single greatest guitar player, england has ever produced? John McLaughlin.
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post #46 of 55
6/8/09 at 11:25am
*cough* Richard Thompson. Unlike a lot of the strictly blues-based guys, he's never boring as a soloist. Of the bluesier guys, I like Page, just because he doesn't mind being messy to get his point across. Kinda like Hendrix and one of the reasons I never bought SRV as the Hendrix successor that so many seem to want him to have been.

There's something too "professional" about Gilmour and Clapton, and it's always prevented me from getting into their solos (and I don't mean this as a slam on Gilmour's work, in general, since I like a lot of Floyd). To bring this full-circle, it's the same problem I have with what I've heard of Mayer. He's technically accomplished, but everything sounds like it's the 20th take and all recklessness has been bled from it.
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post #47 of 55
6/8/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
*cough* Richard Thompson.
On the train into work today, I was just toying with the idea of starting a Thompson thread, but I wasn't sure anyone would sit still for the album-by-album breakdown of his career that was running through my head.

I'm not much on "ranking" musicians (how do you "rank," say, Lightnin' Hopkins, Joe Pass, and Robert Quine?), but Thompson is probably my personal favorite guitarist, in any genre. Whether or not he's the "best" or "greatest" doesn't interest me much.

Some other brilliant Brits not cited yet: John Martyn, Bert Jansch, John Renbourne, Robert Fripp, Nick Drake.

Oh, and yeah, Mayer surprised me, too. Guy can certainly play. If he'd only quit trying to write and sing...
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post #48 of 55
6/8/09 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
Oh, and yeah, Mayer surprised me, too. Guy can certainly play. If he'd only quit trying to write and sing...
Agreed entirely. He'd be a guitar god if he just stuck to jamming out in an instrumental band.
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post #49 of 55
6/8/09 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Another great British guitarist that Fat Elvis missed: Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple/Rainbow). Would you call hime a 'niche' guitarist?
I'd certainly call him niche now with Blackmore's Night, his renaissance band. I imagine it's quite good...as far as renaissance music goes, however.
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post #50 of 55
6/8/09 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Agreed entirely. He'd be a guitar god if he just stuck to jamming out in an instrumental band.
Though, to play Devil's Advocate, do we need more guitar gods? Personally, I think we can never have enough great songwriters.

In Mayer's case, though, he's certainly had time to shoot for that, and missed by a mile. So I'm OK with him just shutting up and playing guitar (as friend Zappa used to say) (another brilliant guitarist who was much better with his mouth closed).
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