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ROTS: OT loose ends and inconsistencies: SPOILERS

post #1 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:02pm
Thread Starter 
Just saw Revenge of the Sith and was wondering about what loose ends got tied up, what is still unanswered, and what inconsistencies remain with the original trilogy. This is not meant to be a hater thread, just a polite debate about what was or was not cleared up. Things I caught:

1. C3PO's memory was erased. This does clear up the fact that he does not recognise going home. I assume R2 is just keeping his damn mouth shut and why he is so motivated to find Obi-Wan; however, Obi-Wan must be a dipshit for not recognizing Anakin's droid.

2. Obi-Wan takes Anakin's light saber to give to Luke. Guess the lying bastard makes up the whole "your father wanted you to have it" speech.

3. I suppose they decide to drop Luke off at Vader's step brother's house to hide him in plain sight, or they just assume that the emperor thinks the kids won't amount to shit anyway.

4. The whole "he helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi" was for real. Was kinda surprised at that.

5. Anakin was the best star pilot in the galaxy.

6. I guess only Jedi to disappear at death are Jedi Masters. Not really explained except for the brief reference to Yoda telling Obi-Wan that he can teach him the fine Jedi art of the seance. At least it was referrred to.

7. Cool reference on how the Sith knocked up Anakin's mom. Sith loving slut.

8. Understand why the digital artists got Vader drunk and shaved his eyebrows for the DVD. Yep, they needed to do that.

9. Understand why you can't take a droid to the local bar. Might start coughing on the whisky and try to take over the galaxy.

10. Sith make lousy building contractors. 20 years to build a Death Star. Damn, Tarkin needs to get off his ass and make them work on the rainy days.

11. Leia has a REAL good memory. Mom was beautiful and sad. She got the Jedi Memory Trick. Maybe she got the photos from the bubble gum machines.

Anyway, I liked the movie alot, believe it or not, and I actually like the prequels. I do wonder what other plot line issues I missed.
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post #2 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVH
11. Leia has a REAL good memory. Mom was beautiful and sad. She got the Jedi Memory Trick. Maybe she got the photos from the bubble gum machines.
That could easily be her adopted mother being sad about the events going on in the Universe, you know?
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post #3 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:07pm
While we're trying to plug holes, please dont rely on the "He's a lying bastard" routine for OT characters too much, its too easy.

If anyone lied, it was Lucas!
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post #4 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cognizant
While we're trying to plug holes, please dont rely on the "He's a lying bastard" routine for OT characters too much, its too easy.

If anyone lied, it was Lucas!
Hey, Lucas blew a lot of continutiy between the two trilogies, and it's kind of fun to hear the fanboys try to explain it away.
I have long ago decided that if you have to seek elaborate explanations about something in a film, it's a sing that something was not well enough done to begin with. It a sure sign of sloppy writing ,editing, or directing.
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post #5 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:12pm
Actually the 20 year to build the Death Star just shows that even a long time ago, in a Galaxy far Away, a government contract never comes in on time and on budget.......
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post #6 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb
Hey, Lucas blew a lot of continutiy between the two trilogies, and it's kind of fun to hear the fanboys try to explain it away.
I have long ago decided that if you have to seek elaborate explanations about something in a film, it's a sing that something was not well enough done to begin with. It a sure sign of sloppy writing ,editing, or directing.

HA. See prior discussions on Being There.
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post #7 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:22pm
The Ghost Force thing: I thought that was one of the best reveals. It finally brings meaning to, "You can't win Darth. Strike me down now and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
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post #8 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7 Productions
That could easily be her adopted mother being sad about the events going on in the Universe, you know?
Thus removing all poignancy from that scene!
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post #9 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockham
The Ghost Force thing: I thought that was one of the best reveals. It finally brings meaning to, "You can't win Darth. Strike me down now and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Finally? Have you seen EMPIRE STRIKES BACK or RETURN OF THE JEDI?

Give me a break.
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post #10 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:26pm
Why didn't Vader know that Obi Wan would come back and train his kid? Oh, I'm sorry, you either (a) don't understand the question, (b) don't care but care enough to post in this thread, or (c) will try to make a lame retort.
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post #11 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:29pm
What does that have to do with anything? When Obi Wan says that line, he doesn't mean "I am going to come back and train your kid."


He means, "I am going to merge with the Force and not be bound by time and space anymore."

BTW, Vader becomes one with the Force, too, so I guess Palpatine wasn't lying about being able to cheat death. Since nobody else could have taught it to him.
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post #12 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:36pm
That's stupid. Vader would have been delighted if Ben just went off into the Force-ether. AKA, Vader wins. Ben would not have said the line if it did not have some impact on Vader. Clearly, Ben knew that he would come back as a ghost and Vader did not.

The Vader ghost thing is more troubling. Then again, he was born of the Midichlorians and was the most powerful Jedi and brought balance, blah blah blah. So maybe he either (a) figure it out real quick, or (b) was taught afterward. Or maybe it just gave the viewer the 'happies' to a redeemed Vader in the SW-afterlife.
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post #13 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudalb
Hey, Lucas blew a lot of continutiy between the two trilogies, and it's kind of fun to hear the fanboys try to explain it away.
I have long ago decided that if you have to seek elaborate explanations about something in a film, it's a sing that something was not well enough done to begin with. It a sure sign of sloppy writing ,editing, or directing.
True, painly obvious to some also, but I just had to let it be known my annoyance at OT characters being labelled liars by people who think they're clever, or who think Lucas was being clever, or who think the characters are being clever.

And Obi1 allowing himself to be 'killed' still annoys me, though I guess it was a part of Luke's 'hero's journey'. Seeing Vader kick Obi1's robes like an idiot is however fun to watch, but then seeing him turn into a force ghost at the end of the saga irks me again.

I really shouldnt have watched this ridiculous story as an adult.
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post #14 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockham
That's stupid. Vader would have been delighted if Ben just went off into the Force-ether. AKA, Vader wins. Ben would not have said the line if it did not have some impact on Vader. Clearly, Ben knew that he would come back as a ghost and Vader did not.

The Vader ghost thing is more troubling. Then again, he was born of the Midichlorians and was the most powerful Jedi and brought balance, blah blah blah. So maybe he either (a) figure it out real quick, or (b) was taught afterward. Or maybe it just gave the viewer the 'happies' to a redeemed Vader in the SW-afterlife.

Huh? The line didn't have an impact on Vader. It wasn't until Ben disappeared that he got weirded out.

So what does this have to do with your original dim utterance that the lame introduction of Qui Gon's Ghosting Technique "finally brings meaning" to that line? I mean, everyone who saw the movie knew the meaning of that line 15 minutes later when Ben's ghost voice guided Luke.
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post #15 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
Now I think that Obi-Wan and Yodi think that Vader still has good in him, so he won't try to mess with his kids, and that is why they want to sent Luke to fight him in Jedi. Or they are just old and lazy. By the way, why aren't there fat jedis? Imagine if you could just sit on the couch and pick up and float your beer and remote control to you? I would be fat as hell. Maybe the midicloreans could even pee for me... (trying desperately to keep this on topic).
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post #16 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:44pm
Somebody should explain why Luke and Leia weren't raised as Jedis.
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post #17 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:45pm
"C3PO's memory was erased. This does clear up the fact that he does not recognise going home. I assume R2 is just keeping his damn mouth shut and why he is so motivated to find Obi-Wan; however, Obi-Wan must be a dipshit for not recognizing Anakin's droid."

Hell, I would think that in all his years, Obi-Wan has seen plenty of damn droids, so I'm sure R2 has a fair share of brothers and sisters out there.

I suppose they decide to drop Luke off at Vader's step brother's house to hide him in plain sight, or they just assume that the emperor thinks the kids won't amount to shit anyway.

When Padme was "buried" it still looked like she was pregnant, so I guess everyone thought the kids died. It was not untill after the first Death Star was blown to shit that Vader found out that his son survived.
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post #18 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Thus removing all poignancy from that scene!
Did Leia know that was her foster mother, though?
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post #19 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by L7 Productions
Did Leia know that was her foster mother, though?
She says her "real mother." And it doesn't matter what she knows - the point of that scene is that Luke is getting as close as he can to his mom right there.
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post #20 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Somebody should explain why Luke and Leia weren't raised as Jedis.
Cause it's an ancient religion, dead like Eight Tracks.
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post #21 of 149
5/20/05 at 6:58pm
1. I always wondered how Yoda could live 900 years, and then just up and die in ROTJ. I like to think he was seriously injured during the fight with Darth Sidious, and managed to live long enough to train Luke.

2. If you do the math, Obi-Wan is only about 50 some years old in ANH. About the same age as Qui-Gon in AOTC. Obi should have been alot more spry during Obi vs. Vader part 2

3. Why did Sidious deactivate the droid army? Why not use both armys?
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post #22 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:02pm
I find your lack faith disturbing.
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post #23 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkatthemoon
Why did Sidious deactivate the droid army? Why not use both armys?
That I can answer: because he's created a fake boogeyman, and has to show that he's vanquished that threat to keep power.
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post #24 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:09pm
Luke and Leia weren't raised as Jedis' because it was too dangerous i guess. Oh wait you mean- why didn't Yoda take them to Degoba (spelling?) and raise them as Jedi there? I guess cause that's pretty dangerous place and maybe Yoda and Obi Wan were both feeling like failures or something or they didn't want to be training them, becaue that would be too suspicious and they didn't want to see anymore younglings die and didn't want to endanger themselves either.

The Death Star is the size of a planet right? So yeah, 20 years seems fine.

I guess the emporer knew and he wanted the kids alive to turn them to the dark side, which he trys to do later with Luke in RotJ. Or at least that's the cover up in RotS (at the end he clearly takes joy in lying to Vader about everyone being dead because it makes Vader stronger, and gives him nothing to live for except loyalty to his master).

Vader wouldn't ever want to go back to Tatoonie, as we know all too well, he hates him some sand. And if anyone heard the name Luke Skywalker, living with Owen Skywalker and May Skywalker, they'd probably just think those two had a kid.

So there's my best attempt at pretending to be an apologist.
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post #25 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:12pm
But raising Luke and Leia outside of Jedi teachings makes them SO susceptible to turning to the Dark Side later. It just makes no sense.
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post #26 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:27pm
Wait a minute, Anakin was raised by Jedi almost all his life, and look what happened to him, maybe Yoda and Obi thought the kids would become more human not being raised by the Jedi Order and therefore could never fall to the darkside, because they'd be raised with morals and values and love for other people, instead of the fortune cookie nonsense of the Jedi. Like someone else said on here it's Luke's humanity that makes him the best Jedi, and ultimately the savor, because he forces Vader to kill the emporer by making him choose, and Luke saves his sister and friends which make him stronger and they all help each other out, etc...

I'm not saying that Lucas planned all this 30 years ago though.
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post #27 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:31pm
Clone/stormtroopers: why has their accuracy and efficiency degraded from the PT to the OT? I suppose you could argue the "clones of clones" point, or that the Empire had to hire people, but this issue hasn't been addressed very well.
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post #28 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:35pm
lol, that's so true, i got nothing for that one, or do i...

1) the clones were all euthinized (spelling?) and they replaced them with humans, becaue cloning is wrong, and people in the galaxy hate them as much as droids.

2) the clone gene decays with time, affecting hand eye co-ordination and intelligence.
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post #29 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:36pm
Cypher Diaz? Other than being the first mexican jedi, totally unnecessary.
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post #30 of 149
5/20/05 at 7:38pm
lol, ya, but he coulda been that guy that Palpatine was talking about at that water orb opera, Palp's master, just using different names, like everyone seems to in the series.
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post #31 of 149
5/20/05 at 8:20pm
I want to know what, if Anakin was able to breathe on his own and even scream while being operated on, exactly warranted the iron lung?

The Obi-Wan/R2 thing can be played off when Obi-Wan gives him that curious look and says "I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid". Of course it was never planned that way, but it works if you want it to.

That scene where Palpatine talks about how Plagueis could manipulate midichlorians to create life pisses me off, because it raises such a big question that we'll never have answered. That type of ambiguous shit had no place in a movie that's supposed to fill in existing (and huge) gaps. I don't think Anakin was created by either Plagueis or Sidious - I think it was just a shitty writing decision by Lucas - but now we have to listen to the hardcore nerds debate about it for the rest of our lives as fans, with no resolution in sight.

I'm with Devin as far as nothing with the twins making much sense. They should have established the fact that the twins would be a threat to Vader and the Emperor, and that they'd be hunted and destroyed. That would have given reason for Obi-Wan and Yoda separating them and hiding them, and taking a huge risk in attempting to train them so late in life to defeat someone even the two of them - foremost Jedi Masters - weren't powerful to take on.

But oh well. It's done and over with now.
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post #32 of 149
5/20/05 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkyway

The Death Star is the size of a planet right? So yeah, 20 years seems fine.
[Geek] Check this out. Click on the 2000x tab and scroll down. The Death Star's teeny-weeny compared to the Moon.[/Geek]

Not that I care how long it took to build the Death Star or why. I just think it's a nifty site.
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post #33 of 149
5/20/05 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Thus removing all poignancy from that scene!
Nah, Carrie Fischers' performance took care of that.
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post #34 of 149
5/20/05 at 8:26pm
Oh, what about Vader's line in Jedi? "Obi-Wan once thought as you did?" I mean, it's inferred, but never to the level of Luke's belief in Jedi that there's still good in Vader.
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post #35 of 149
5/20/05 at 8:28pm
I have a question - are the stormtroopers in the OT clones or are they recruits? Not a big deal, I was just wondering.
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post #36 of 149
5/20/05 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Goldberg
I have a question - are the stormtroopers in the OT clones or are they recruits? Not a big deal, I was just wondering.
Going with the fact that George changed Boba's voice to Temura's on the DVDs, and left the Stormtroopers the same, I'd say some or all the troops are recruits.
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post #37 of 149
5/21/05 at 12:56am
I haven't seen this movie yet.

To me, all these questions prove that Lucas acted like an idiot. Instead of drafting the main lines and getting some talented writers and a talented director (let's call it the Peter Jackson Way), he just botched the job because he knew that no matter what, the hardcore fans (and in the Star Wars market they are many) would fill in the gaps for him.

All these things should not have to be explained. R2 and C3PO? Shouldn'y have been there.

Midichlorinians? Shouldn't have been there.

And the space pilot thing is just ridiculous. It's one of the most famous lines. How hard was it, in the course of three films, to make Anakin a great pilot? Top Gun is what? 100 minutes?

I know all this as been debated to death. I just wish people would stop making excuses for a shitty job by Lucas. He blew it.
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post #38 of 149
5/21/05 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkatthemoon
Going with the fact that George changed Boba's voice to Temura's on the DVDs, and left the Stormtroopers the same, I'd say some or all the troops are recruits.
Except for the fact that, at least in the first film, every single stormtrooper has exactly the same voice.

As for the people who say that Obi-Wan is a liar in Episode IV (and those who hate those who say that), well, he does lie in Episode IV. Either Obi-Wan is trying to spare him the pain of that knowledge, thinks Luke isn't ready to hear it yet, or he's taking the coward's way out and avoiding the issue. And incidentally, these explanations are only inconsistent if you view his character as having been a great Jedi, which he really wasn't. It's said in Episode I that he can be rash and impetuous, and we see him do that a few times in I and II. In III (and VI), he as much as admits that he did a lousy job training Anakin ("I failed you" & "I was wrong"). Clearly, he's supposed to be a pretty flawed human being, not a paragon of Jedi virtue, which I think makes him much more interesting. It also makes it much more believable that he might very well have intentionally lied to Luke.
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post #39 of 149
5/21/05 at 1:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I haven't seen this movie yet.

And the space pilot thing is just ridiculous. It's one of the most famous lines. How hard was it, in the course of three films, to make Anakin a great pilot? Top Gun is what? 100 minutes?

I know all this as been debated to death. I just wish people would stop making excuses for a shitty job by Lucas. He blew it.
Well, maybe if you HAD seen the film, you would know that the opening battle does, in fact, show Anakin being a great pilot. For those of you who have seen it, I'm referring to the trick with the buzz droids. Not to mention that the Episode I pod race covers his piloting skills pretty well, along with the chase through Coruscant in Episode II.

Maybe you should try seeing the film before holding forth on how much Lucas blew it.
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post #40 of 149
5/21/05 at 1:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel St. Buggering
Well, maybe if you HAD seen the film, you would know that the opening battle does, in fact, show Anakin being a great pilot. For those of you who have seen it, I'm referring to the trick with the buzz droids. Not to mention that the Episode I pod race covers his piloting skills pretty well, along with the chase through Coruscant in Episode II.

Maybe you should try seeing the film before holding forth on how much Lucas blew it.
Three movies. One space battles where he does a good trick. That's not how I would define the greatest pilot in the galaxy. The Red Baron did not become famous because of one fancy move he did on a sunday.

Three movies. One good. Two terrible ones. He blew it. Accept it. Why is it that everyone can agree that the Jaws sequels are turds but not the Star Wars prequels? Why is the popular internet bashing of the Godfather III accepted but god forbid you'd say Attack of the Clones is a poorly made film? I don't get why people get so personnal about this. The OT were good and fun movies. The Phantom Menace and AOTC were not.

You know, a good movie flows effortlessly. When you have to explain everything for it to make sense, that means it doesn't work.
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post #41 of 149
5/21/05 at 1:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
Three movies. One space battles where he does a good trick. That's not how I would define the greatest pilot in the galaxy. The Red Baron did not become famous because of one fancy move he did on a sunday.

Three movies. One good. Two terrible ones. He blew it. Accept it. Why is it that everyone can agree that the Jaws sequels are turds but not the Star Wars prequels? Why is the popular internet bashing of the Godfather III accepted but god forbid you'd say Attack of the Clones is a poorly made film? I don't get why people get so personnal about this. The OT were good and fun movies. The Phantom Menace and AOTC were not.

You know, a good movie flows effortlessly. When you have to explain everything for it to make sense, that means it doesn't work.
I believe I just mentioned three scenes from all three movies, not the one trick in the one.

Additionally, I'm not getting personal about this. I simply don't agree with you that they're poorly made films. It's really that simple. This seems to upset you, and I'm sorry about that, but I disagree. You talk as if it's a stone cold FACT that they're poorly made films, and we refuse to see it. It's only the fact that it's Star Wars that seems to make it a big deal. Personally, I don't think "The Fifth Element" is a good movie, and there are a lot of people who do. It's just that "The Fifth Element" isn't a popular subject for debate, so the disagreement doesn't come up much.

I guess the salient point is, if you hate this trilogy, why waste your time posting on threads devoted to them? Clearly, it's still something you care about. Otherwise, why bother?
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post #42 of 149
5/21/05 at 1:39am
Quote:
I believe I just mentioned three scenes from all three movies, not the one trick in the one.
Driving a pod racer does not make him the greatest pilot in the galaxy. Think back before these films were made. When they were just a rumor. Didn't you dream of seeing three films filmed with space battles and light saber duels?

Quote:
I don't think "The Fifth Element" is a good movie, and there are a lot of people who do.
I don't either. It's beautifull, but not very good.

Quote:
You talk as if it's a stone cold FACT that they're poorly made films, and we refuse to see it.
It is a fact. The first 2 prequels are bad movies. Just like the Friday the 13th series are bad movies but a lot of people like them, the prequels have a lot of fans. My problem is not that they like it. My problem is that they try to pass these movies as quality films.

Quote:
Clearly, it's still something you care about. Otherwise, why bother?
I do care, because I wanted them to be good. To be truthfull, I wanted them to be great but I expected them to be good. I got neither. Except maybe for Sith, wich seems to be a bad movie with some good parts. So maybe I'll enjoy this one.
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post #43 of 149
5/21/05 at 3:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkyway
Vader wouldn't ever want to go back to Tatoonie, as we know all too well, he hates him some sand. And if anyone heard the name Luke Skywalker, living with Owen Skywalker and May Skywalker, they'd probably just think those two had a kid.

So there's my best attempt at pretending to be an apologist.
No one else has caught this?
His Uncle was named Owen Lars, and his Aunt was Beru. Owen was Anakin's step-brother from when Shmi married the dude in the hover-wheelchair (something-or-other Lars), hence the different last names.
I just assume Vader thinks the child(ren) are dead, since Palpatine tells him she died because of the injuries he gave her, not from childbirth or anything...
And for anyone who wonders about the last name Skywalker being mentioned anywhere to Vader, Tatooine's supposed to be an assbackward hick planet, right? Vader's too busy being all big and black and evil elsewhere to care about the place he couldn't wait to get away from when he was a snot-nosed little nobody, so why's he going to bother even thinking about it, much less looking there and hearing about some farm kid with his old last name (that no one but the Emperor, OB1, or Yoda would know anyway)?

Anywho, despite its flaws (like any of the love dialogue), I enjoyed the film. And seeing it again from the projection booth tonight, I caught a few subtleties I'd missed before. I'd put it third out of six (behind Empire and New Hope).
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post #44 of 149
5/21/05 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVH
1. C3PO's memory was erased. This does clear up the fact that he does not recognise going home. I assume R2 is just keeping his damn mouth shut and why he is so motivated to find Obi-Wan; however, Obi-Wan must be a dipshit for not recognizing Anakin's droid.

-All Obi-Wan said is he never recalled owning any droids, he never said he didnt know who they were.

2. Obi-Wan takes Anakin's light saber to give to Luke. Guess the lying bastard makes up the whole "your father wanted you to have it" speech.

-Whats he supposed to say, I took this from your fathers torched almost dead hands?

3. I suppose they decide to drop Luke off at Vader's step brother's house to hide him in plain sight, or they just assume that the emperor thinks the kids won't amount to shit anyway.

-Probably not the greatest idea, but if Darth thinks his kid (not kids, cause he only knew there was 1) is dead, why would he go looking there? And id think he wouldnt bother with Owen and Beru cause there family, even if he was stone cold evil.

4. The whole "he helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi" was for real. Was kinda surprised at that.

-I was shocked at the killing of the children scene, though they should have gone for the hard R rating and shown it

5. Anakin was the best star pilot in the galaxy.

-HA! Wedge is, he lived through 2 Death Star runs and killed 1. Top that Darth, you got your ass kicked there twice.

6. I guess only Jedi to disappear at death are Jedi Masters. Not really explained except for the brief reference to Yoda telling Obi-Wan that he can teach him the fine Jedi art of the seance. At least it was referrred to.

-Only Jedi I saw who disappeared when they died were Obi-Wan and Yoda. Countless other masters who died left nice corpses: Qui-Gon, Windu, Pointyheaded guy, Kit Fasto, Vader and many more.

7. Cool reference on how the Sith knocked up Anakin's mom. Sith loving slut.

-Thats not a given as to what happened, all it was was a story. Though if it was what happened, Palpatine had to be one patient guy to wait around for all that to happen. I dont see it as happening becuase theres too many factors that could go wrong and leave him with just wasted time.

10. Sith make lousy building contractors. 20 years to build a Death Star. Damn, Tarkin needs to get off his ass and make them work on the rainy days.

-Whats crazy is it took 20 years to make 1 Death Star and 5 or 6 to make a 2nd. Though Im sure they used the good old government adage, why build one when you can build 2 for twice the cost/

11. Leia has a REAL good memory. Mom was beautiful and sad. She got the Jedi Memory Trick. Maybe she got the photos from the bubble gum machines.

-Probably just Mrs. Organa she remembered, though she could have latent memories from the womb.

Anyway, I liked the movie alot, believe it or not, and I actually like the prequels. I do wonder what other plot line issues I missed.
I really liked it too, especially the irony in all of it at the end. Though when Vader let out the Captain Kirk like NOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the end of the movie, I almost threw up. Of all the horrible lines George has thrown into the series, this is the worst. It really make Vader look like a punk.

I too would have liked to see some reasoning behind splititng them up, like Obi says in Jedi. And maybe even see Yoda settling down on Degobah. Maybe on the DVD.

But what I really liked, is Lucas kinda gives some legitamacy to the whole Dark Empire comicbook series, by having Anakin say the stuff about knowing evil is without learning about it. And to a larger extent, Palpatine saying he knows how to be Immortal, and in the Dark Empire series, he transfered his soul to a clone of himself. Which, is what I would do, if It were possible in that situation.
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post #45 of 149
5/21/05 at 4:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
It is a fact. The first 2 prequels are bad movies. Just like the Friday the 13th series are bad movies but a lot of people like them, the prequels have a lot of fans. My problem is not that they like it. My problem is that they try to pass these movies as quality films.
Well that pretty much tells me everything I need to know about your opinions, doesn't it? The quality of a film is an opinion, not a fact. Devin agrees with you, and guess what: he's wrong too. You can't say that a subjective opinion is a fact, even if a majority of people agree with you. Because in the end, we're not really arguing whether they're good movies; we're expressing whether we enjoyed them or not. That's all there really is when it comes to movies, or any art for that matter.

And really, anybody who thinks that Return of the Jedi is in any way comparable to Star Wars or Empire loses my support anyway. Either of the first two prequels beats that Muppet Show hands down for me. I know you didn't say that, I'm just throwing it out there. It's my opinion that the main reason people throw so much crap at these movies is that they over-worship the originals. The dialogue has always been bad, the performances have always been sub-par. Live with it.
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post #46 of 149
5/21/05 at 4:41am
One thing in the EU its been stated that the Palpatine was a hardcore racist. Only one Grand Moff was non White. I wonder after he starts up his Empire if he kills or enslaves Mas Amana, A lot of other races where inslaved
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post #47 of 149
5/21/05 at 10:57am
Someone posted this on Empire magazine's forums:

Quote:
*Scene from ESB:
OBI WAN: "That boy is our only hope."
YODA: "No. There is another."
Did Obi forget??? Sorry if this has already been brought up.
Guess we're back to that old "did he mean Anakin?" chestnut.

EDIT:

I still want to know why the film's called 'Revenge of the Sith', seeing as we've never seen the Sith pre-revengeful, know what I mean? Also, the title brings to mind a new order of Sith, a Sith society, a Sith dystopia, basically Sith everywhere you look. But really, its just two dudes. Ok, enough nitpicking...
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post #48 of 149
5/21/05 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
But raising Luke and Leia outside of Jedi teachings makes them SO susceptible to turning to the Dark Side later. It just makes no sense.
"The more you tighten your grip, Devin, the more apologists will
slip through your fingers."
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post #49 of 149
5/21/05 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
Driving a pod racer does not make him the greatest pilot in the galaxy. [/U]
An eight year old kid winning a race that no other human in the galaxy can even compete in is pretty damn impressive.

I think Anakin showed off his piloting skills well enough over the course of three films that years later his best friend would refer to him as "the greatest starpilot in the galaxy."
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post #50 of 149
5/21/05 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronVH
Now I think that Obi-Wan and Yodi think that Vader still has good in him, so he won't try to mess with his kids, and that is why they want to sent Luke to fight him in Jedi.
Obi-Wan doesn't think that there is still good in Anakin though. By the time ther duel is over he's already written him off. And in fact in Return of the Jedi he disagrees with Luke on the topic of Anakin's lingering good side.

Obi-Wan and Yoda know that Vader and The Emperor won't go after the kids for the simple reason that Vader and The Emperor don't know the kids exist. As far as they know, Anakin and Padmé's single child died with her, which suits Palpatine just fine.
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