Will we ever get Steven Seagal special editions??

I'd be sated with just an anamorphic widescreen DVD of Marked For Death. That one's from 20th Century Fox, by the way.

I think there are some new High Definition DVDs due out soon.

but some proper Special Edition DVDs (i.e. loaded with extras) would be most welcome.. audio commentaries would be a must, obviously. and I know there has to be plenty of behind-the-scenes material for Above the Law and Marked for Death, because there are pics and even short clips that exist. and maybe DVDs featuring different cuts, such as that TV version of Out for Justice.

also would be awesome to finally see that ultra rare Canadian theatrical version of Under Siege 2: Dark Territory, complete with alternate scenes and more violence. truly the stuff of legend.

If Seagal were to do a commentary would half of it be dubbed by another actor's voice?

Seriously though, as bad as his films have become there is no question that he was turning out great stuf between '90 and '95. I'm not big on OUT FOR JUSTICE (love the pool hall scene, hate the accent) but the rest is great stuff. If I had to pick one for a special edition I'd go with MARKED FOR DEATH. Small rumors get thrown around every now and again for an UNDER SIEGE 3 but if there was one film of his that most deserves a sequel it would be MARKED FOR DEATH. At the very least FOX needs to get enough taffy together to persuade Seagal to join Keith David to do a commentary for this action classic.

Actually, I'd say there is rather a large question that he was turning out great stuff. It's hard for me to imagine that anybody ever actually enjoyed his movies in any way other than the ironic love of bad cinema that some people have. I don't feel that his movies have declined at all; they've always been this bad.

I like to imagine that Seagal's entire career was an Eliza Doolittle exercise that one of Hollywood's most powerful agents could turn anybody into a star. "Hey, what about that guy you take Aikido from on Wednesdays? He has no charisma whatsoever." "You're on, my friend." And a star was born.

Although I do love Steven Segal, I think any DVD of his films are "special" enough. Again, no offense to Mr. Segal.

You should ask some of the studio execs who ran Warner Bros. from 89-01 if there is validity to this theory. It might be hard to get them to stop counting the money Seagal helped make them in the 10, count'em 10, films he made for the studio in that time. Maybe his career started as an experiment, but it was a profitable one for all involved. Not to mention an entertaining one to the folks who enjoyed his films.

I think one reason I'm not big on OUT FOR JUSTICE (aside from the accent and that hat he kept wearing) is that it is right in between HARD, MARKED, UNDER SIEGE, and ON DEADLY GROUND. Those are all great and JUSTICE sort of sticks out in the middle of them. Plus, 1991 was a killer year for action films which may be another reason that JUSTICE didn't stand out a bit more for me. Loved Gina Gershon though!

"Where's Ritchie at?! You tell Ritchie I'm looking for him"

Marked for Death is probably my fave, followed by Under Siege (those cake cans didn't hurt either). I would like to see some SEs for his films, he could do no wrong for those first years, and I'd like to have a way to check them out in a better format with all the goodies that are available.

I like Out For Justice for the Bad Accent (Anyone know why he did BOB-EE LU-PO??) and the EXTREMELY one sided Forsythe/Seagal fight at the end.

*Forsythe is thrown into another piece of furniture*

After the Eskimo junk, ON DEADLY GROUND turns into one hell of a film thanks mainly to R. Lee Ermy and his squad of mercs on Seagal's trail. He also did UNDER SIEGE 2 after that which was a whole lot of fun as well. I think the first film of his that really went south for me was FIRE DOWN BELOW because it just felt like an over blown episode of "Walker: Texas Ranger." I liked Seagal's brief comeback in EXIT WOUNDS because it showed he could still play a character that wasn't all about preaching about the environment and wearing flashy jackets. It took Seagal back to old fashioned crooked cop type stuff and I could overlook DMX being in it. Sadly Seagal threw the credibility he got from WOUNDS away with HALF PAST DEAD, a film that has some moments of interest but really sets the stage for the movies Seagal is doing today.

not to say he hasn't made some highly entertaining movies post 1996, but I think he simply stopped caring about his films the moment he got sent out with a cruel and unceremonious "Colonel, we're not gonna make it."

they say he died being sucked out thirty thousand feet in the air... but I believe he died of a broken heart.

and by the way, I remember posting yesterday in defense of Out for Justice, but I guess it got deleted somehow in the board screwup. in my message I went to great lengths to explain why OFJ is such a vital film (Electrichead knows what time it is) and why the haters of the film are WRONG. anyway just take my word for it, I kicked your asses.

Word

It is true that EXECUTIVE DECISION may have been the first sign of trouble for Seagal. With that cast it should have been the DELTA FORCE for the 90's with Seagal taking the Lee Marvin role. If you must, kill him off at the end, not 40 minutes into the thing.

If OUT FOR JUSTICE came out now I'd probably love it. Outside of UNLEASHED you don't see many movies like that anymore. But coming in the same year as T2, THE LAST BOY SCOUT, THE PUNISHER (hit the states in '91), SHOWDOWN IN LITTLE TOKYO, RICOCHET, DOUBLE IMPACT, STONE COLD (I thought Forsythe was better here), and even HARLEY DAVIDSON AND THE MARLBORO MAN it ends up looking sort of average. I did like JUSTICE more than THE HITMAN and THE TAKING OF BEVERLY HILLS. Take that Italian Chuck Norris and Ken "Boomer" Wahl!

I would have to say that Fire Down Below was the beginning of his downward spiral. If I recall correctly, no one died in that one and people got tired of his rantings about the environment. NO ONE DIED! IN A SEAGAL FLICK! That's just plain wrong.

However he did come back to form with The Patriot which was a direct to DVD gem shortly thereafter. The violence and action were surprisingly good. But then he started working with rappers.

observing the three stages of his career should help us pinpoint. first you have the dynamic/nervous energy, occasionally high pitched, something-to-prove Sensei. for anyone who can appreciate this kind of action, his films deliver. they are:

Above the Law

Hard to Kill

Marked for Death

Out for Justice

Under Siege

On Deadly Ground



then he slips into ultra laid back, ultra confident, barely above a whisper zen detachment mode. the films still deliver- if not always in action then at least in macho posturing and one liners and general Sensei charisma. the films are:

Under Siege 2

Executive Decision

The Glimmer Man

Fire Down Below

The Patriot

Exit Wounds



and finally you have the pure paycheck period [hint- THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL IN QUALITY STARTS HERE]:

Ticker

Half Past Dead

The Foreigner

Belly of the Beast

Into the Sun

etc etc

and getting back to Out for Justice, I think it's a flawless Steven Seagal movie. It has a director who knows exactly how do the cinematic tough guy thing (I love Hard Times and Extreme Prejudice and Trespass, but still Walter Hill was never quite as good at this as John Flynn) and who makes a great showcase for his star's swift and brutal Aikijutsu roughhouse.

it has a great villain in Forsythe. he understands his role in this film, making Richie the most obnoxious, paranoid, out of shape, foaming at the mouth, hopped up on goofballs scumnugget ever, and thus setting himself up as the perfect human heavy bag for Sensei to pummel on. Forsythe's remarkable smashing-a-room-up-with-own-body abilities rival those of Bruce Campbell (got to admire a man willing to put himself in traction for the amusement of others)

OFJ also features two audacious French Connection tributes, Sensei speaking different languages as if it's no biggie at all, an appearance by Dan Inosanto, and random Beastie Boys music that ensures this film will never become dated.

there's just so much to love.

Good Christmas Disciple you make the greatest case there. I watched Out For Justice countless times on HBO (as a youngster) and I could never understand why. Theres really no good fight scenes and William presents no challenge to Sensei (no surprise as the Sensei rarely does take much punishment from the baddies). I thought the performers outside Orbach added way too much cheese (looking at your horrible accent there Sensei and Gershon) to the proceedings. Yet I must admit theres something really good about how the film is setup I just never thought it paid off as well as it could have. Perhaps a few 2 minute dragouts more and it'd be there.

As for Seagal I think his best flicks in quality are Above The Law, Under Siege, Executive Decision, Hard to Kill, Marked For Death, Under Siege 2, Exit Wounds, Belly of the Beast and Out for Justice last.

I'm digging OFJ, but my fave is Marked for Death. There is enough brutality and one-liners in that film for a series of lesser films. I'm saddened by his films today, and remember lovingly being there opening night to watch Sensei damage people in the best possible ways.

"You fuck with my family, you die!"

"I hope they weren't triplets."

I have the same defense for ON DEADLY GROUND that I've always had. When you make it through the Eskimo stuff you get to see Seagal kill Billy Bob Thornton, R. Lee Ermey, John C. McGinley, and Michael Caine in a span of 10 minutes. I can't say many bad things about a film that pulls off this amazing quartet of kills. I also think the fight scenes are pretty brutal. UNDER SIEGE is a better movie but I think GROUND is a little more of a throwback to his badass persona. Plus, he makes a silencer out of a 2 liter bottle of soda. I have no idea if that would work but it sure looked cool.

I'll admit that this discussion makes me wish OUT FOR JUSTICE would get more cable airplay. I remember I first saw it years back on video with my older brother. Back then he was a huge Seagal fan and made me a fan by watching HARD TO KILL and MARKED FOR DEATH. He had seen OFJ in theaters and raved about it. When it came out for rent we made a night out of watching JUSTICE and THE PERFECT WEAPON, which must have also just been released. As crazy as it sounds THE PERFECT WEAPON seemed to come off better than JUSTICE. Hopefully I'll run across it again soon instead of FIRE DOWN BELOW and HALF PAST DEAD which always seem to be on.

Save for BELLY OF THE BEAST I rip on Seagal plenty when it comes to his current cinematic efforts. But I only do it out of the respect I had for the guy back in the day. If anyone has seen SUBMERGED yet you'll know it is a new low for him in regards to not looping his dialogue. The dubbing added to his weight make it real hard to keep punishing myself with his current films. On the DVD of the new Lundgren film, DIRECT ACTION, there is a brief interview where he is asked how he keeps his fight scenes fresh. Lundgren answers with "One way to keep your fight scenes fresh is to keep yourself IN SHAPE." He really emphasized the "in shape" part of his response which may mean nothing but my imaginative mind took as a little dig at Seagal.

don't forget to add Mike Starr and Sven Ole Thorsen to the list of baddies in that film. the eskimo stuff was so out there, yet totally appropriate for Sensei, the voice of the indigenous, the champion of the oppressed. I looked at the recurring eco warrior theme as an eccentricity, something that gave his movies flavor, loving how it was stubbornly, almost defiantly shoehorned into every project even after the failure of ODG. because however much of a vanity piece ODG might have been on the surface, and however hamfisted the delivery of the message, I think deep down the environmental stuff came from somewhere sincere. you pick dolphin unfriendly tuna, or fail to separate cans from plastic, or pollute the land with your oil and your wavering accent? YOU'RE IN FOR A WORLD OF HURT. the movie had a good cause, so by feverishly rewinding and rewatching Sensei perform the classic flip around shotgun disarm on Ermey, it was like helping out in some small way.

and as for Fire Down Below, that movie was worth the entrance fee just to witness him calling all the good rednecks "sir", all the bad rednecks "boy", and saying "y'all" a lot (as in "now, y'all know why I'm here!") when talking down to the simple townfolk.

also, Speakman = the goods. back when he first started I remember the marketing of this new guy as Sensei II, so for a while I didn't like him and would cut any pictures I found of him out of my monthly copy of Bey Logan's Impact. but later, I calmed down and realized that there was indeed room for a wonderbread martial arts powerhouse like him.

Electric, didn't you say you took your wife to see a Speakman flick on the first date?

I too thought The Perfect Weapon wasn't too shabby. Speakman looked ripe for good things. Then I watched Street Knight and realized it was over. Sad I mean what the hell happened?

I remember Speakman had a film called THE EXPERT which wasn't too bad but the last one I saw him in was DEADLY OUTBREAK which sucked. I know he did a film with Snoop Dogg, Gary Busey, C. Thomas Howell, and Master P (who also directed) called HOT BOYZ. I can't say I've eaten enough Twinkies to watch the thing but that's one odd cast.

Aside from Seagal, Speakman reminds me a bit of Thomas Ian Griffith. He was another one who had a good solo effort early on with EXCESSIVE FORCE but then fizzled with everything after that. The early 90's are full of guys like this which makes the fact that Seagal, Van Damme, and to an extent Lundgren look impressive for at least sticking around in high profile films for a decade.

Seagal's downward spiral began the day his mom's cooch spat him out.

And they say Seagal's fans are the uncivilized ones, it would appear that myth has been shattered like a broken Jamaican bone in MARKED FOR DEATH.

yeah so anyway, Griffith was a decent enough actor but he did some awful movies. even Lance Henriksen couldn't save the tedious Excessive Force. the worst one had to be Crackerjack though... If I remember correctly his name was like Steve Crackerjack or Max Crackerjack or something. and his catchphrase was "Crackerjack's back!"

but he was pretty great in Karate Kid III. definitely his defining role.

He was good in Vampires, I thought.

CRACKERJACK was terrible, so was the one that he did with Rutger Hauer called BEYOND FORGIVENESS (I think that was the title). But I liked EXCESSIVE FORCE quite a bit. I think Tony Todd was almost as good a #2 villain for Henricksen than Forsythe was in STONE COLD or Vosloo in HARD TARGET.

my problem was he had a pansy fighting style that didn't look like it could do much. his strikes lacked the bonecrushing quality of a Seagal or a Speakman. plus the overcoat and the musician thing in Excessive Force were signs of trying too hard. but like I said, he did good as Terry Silver. that character had some real hatred behind his blows. and yes, he was good as Valek too (the goth look worked just as good for him as it did for fellow kicker Brandon Lee)

basically, he's better suited to bad guys.

I'll admit that the musician aspect to EXCESSIVE FORCE was a bit much but if that's how they could get James Earl Jones in it then by God it was worth it! I just thought that movie reminded me of the early Seagal stuff, lone wolf cop tackilng corruption type stuff. Did anyone ever catch him in HOLLOW POINT? If so, is there any value in watching it other than seeing Tia Carrera?

I can't believe some of you say Seagal never made a good action flick. Under Siege is a classic action movie and Out For Justice and Marked for Death are pretty solid action entries as well. Hell I would love an SE of Under Siege. I would buy it first day out.

"I have the same defense for ON DEADLY GROUND that I've always had. When you make it through the Eskimo stuff you get to see Seagal kill Billy Bob Thornton, R. Lee Ermey, John C. McGinley, and Michael Caine in a span of 10 minutes. I can't say many bad things about a film that pulls off this amazing quartet of kills."

Too True. I don't really care the movie as a whole at all but the last act is rather fun.

I saw Out Of Reach dvd for sale at the Warehouse (big, shitty NZ department store chain) today for $12.63! Thats about $7-$8 US, but WTF?! $12.63? I was almost tempted to buy it for the sheer potential comedy value (I'd heard a lot about it in the net) but alas, no.

BTW, that chick jumping out of the cake in Under Siege was the highlight of Seagals films IMO.

OUT OF REACH is the only one of Seagal's recent films that I have not suffered through. I know that if I rent it the next week it will be on USA so I'm saving myself the pain. I would hope Seagal seems a little more alive in that one than he does in SUBMERGED.

Another Seagal film that I wouldn't mind catching on the tube again is THE GLIMMER MAN. I remember seeing it when it came out and thinking it was okay, but nothing special. At that time Keenan Ivory Wayans was coming off of LOW DOWN DIRTY SHAME, which was kind of fun, so matching him with Seagal seemed like a good combination that didn't meet its full potential.

You're pretty much on the mark with THE GLIMMER MAN, I think the only funny moment Wayans had was after his apartment blew up. Though I do think it was the first time Seagal referred to another character as "white boy" which always comes off as oddly strange when he does that.

You're also right that Vinnie Jones was good in SUBMERGED, I just wish Seagal could have looked as interested in trying to act as Jones did. He does have one good (but quick) fight scene at the end but there is no reason to not have at least 2 or 3 additional scenes like that in a Seagal film. Plus, having Seagal do a cajun accent, and then having half of his dialogue dubbed in a non-cajun accent really takes one out of the film. The premise was good, sort of THE DIRTY DOZEN meets THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, but the "going through the motions" performance from Seagal is what sunk SUBMERGED (hey, sunk SUBMERGED!, haha, oh dear).

nuts to you, Glimmer Man had a lot to enjoy. decent chemistry between Wayans and Seagal (both have some good lines), the whole dilemma over having to deal with Tobolowsky in a house of God, making Cox hobble to a hospital, awesome mileage from the deer parts gag (best is when Sensei finds more bottles at Wayans' apartment, bought on the down low)

I know Keenan is no Damon but I was hoping THE GLIMMER MAN would be closer to THE LAST BOY SCOUT instead of just being a tad better than BULLETPROOF. The lie detector scene was pretty good but I could have done with less Gunton and more Cox (that sounds awkaward).

I don't think it was quite the first date, I think that was the Nick Cage starring Honeymoon in Vegas, but it was one of the early films that we went to. She's still a good sport 12 years later, sitting through Perfect Weapon, Rapid Fire, or whatever else pops up on TV, not to mention being OK with all the cash I dump into my DVD collection of martial arts film.

Sensei is so cool he is on the front page.

Edited to add that it was Street Knight, not even his best effort. If anything needs a SE, it's fucking The Perfect Weapon. Damn thing isn't even on dvd at all.

yep a DVD of that would be nice. I can just picture the Speakman/Mako/Toru Tanaka floating heads on the cover.

What about Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa? He threw a few kicks there.

After I COME IN PEACE and STONE COLD, THE PERFECT WEAPON is on my most wanted DVD list. I thought STONE COLD was coming at the end of this month but it ended up being a Tom Selleck film with the same name. The best way I can describe my reaction to this was "Fuck!"

I took a girl to see UNDER SIEGE 2. I also took her to JUDGE DREDD. Maria, if you're reading this call me, those other whores meant nothing.

I got fucked too, I was looking for the Bosworth actioner myself, got excited when I thought it was on it's way.

It's the closest I've come to being raped by a Magnum.