BATMAN BEGINS sequel - Villains? - Page 2

I don't know, I wasn't really sure about how incurably insane he was so I'd like to see him be an underworld figure in future films. I thought he came off better than the Scarecrow.


I'll admit it's an odd choice on my part and you wouldn't know it from his other film roles but on "Rescue Me" he always seems on the verge of completey flipping out, and he did in the last episode of the season, and I think he could pull off the mix of humor and psychosis that the Joker needs.

Since BATMAN BEGINS is so far just off to a better than average start box office wise, I don't see Warner letting an unknown be cast as the Joker. They're going to want someone to really get mainstream audiences excited like Nicholson did in the original. I would say Robin Williams and Nicolas Cage are the obvious big names they'd want first. Dent/Two-Face is probably the role that has a better chance of going to someone who isn't a household name.

If that happens, not seeing the movie won't be enough -- I'd have to go burn down Warner Brothers.

And I mean digging up the bodies of the original Warner Brothers and burning them.

Exactly.

Not saying it's the way I'd want to go but BATMAN BEGINS is going to have to grow strong legs for Warner to not go this route. SPIDER-MAN was such a powerhouse that Sony could get a great actor like Alfred Molina for the sequel because a big draw wasn't needed to insure audiences would see it.

But don't you think Warners might look back at the first four films and see how casting big names as the villains led to disaster?

I'm not suggesting they would ever go with Nicholson again, in fact the name I threw out for a good Joker has no real clout at all box office wise. I don't think going with big names in the previous films was the problem, Pfeiffer was a great Catwoman, it was completely screwing up the presentation of the villains (namely Two-Face and the Penguin) that really hurt those films.

I'm just putting myself in the heads of the folks in charge of a studio that doesn't have a ton of franchises to work with. It's obviously too soon to tell what the word of mouth is going to be for next weekend. The Internet word of mouth seems pretty good but actual word of mouth won't really kick in until tomorrow when folks go back to the workplace to spread either (hopefully) positive or a negative reaction.

Casting Jim Carrey as the Riddler immediately made Forever a Jim Carrey movie, not a Batman movie.

Casting Arnold as Mr. Freeze immediately made Batman and Robin an Arnold movie, not a Batman movie.

The minute you cast a big name as the villain, the movie becomes about that big name and not about Batman, which is the road to ruin.

Casting Carrey as the Riddler wasn't the problem, it was giving his character the origin story instead of the much more interesting origin of Two-Face that was the problem.

I also think Arnold being Mr. Freeze was not the biggest mistake of that film. People can talk all they want about how much of a tragic figure Freeze is but he mainly goes around freezing people, so you may as well get someone larger than life to play the role. Arnold, like everything else in that horrid movie, was just turned into camp crap instead of scary cool.

But once again, I'd like to see a more subtle choice for the Joker. I just have my doubts that this will now happen.

Based on his almost superb casting in this film, I trust Nolan will make the right decision for the Joker when the time comes if he chooses to return to the director's chair. Outside of the oft-mentioned Crispin Glover, it'll be interesting to see who ends up auditioning for the role.

goyer was quoted in a screenplay mag as saying that they were going to put harvey dent in begins but wanted to save his whole origin for the sequel.

and joker will have another nod, maybe something a little more substantial, but he wont be the main guy until 3. thats from goyer, who has submitted outlines for the next two films to warners.

batman 2 - two face
batman 3 - joker

Twoface for the next movie would be easy. Use the animated series origon. Noland should go out on a high and have the Joker in number 3 talked to a cute blond shrink

I mentioned this in passing in another thread, but I think we could still see Ra's again, maybe as a shadowy behind the scenes figure pulling all the strings.

Between the possibility of a Lazarus pit and the ambiguous nature of his death, I don't really see anything in BB that would keep him from coming back.

Regarding the Joker and Harley Quinn: I suspect that - at the very least - we'll see a Dr. Quinzel, possibly Crane's replacement, at Arkham when Joker's brought in. I tend to think that'll happen mid-movie, actually, since Harley might be the only female character in the sequel and they'd want to give her more screen time.

Two things they should do is first introduce them in an as much logical manner as possible, making these characters as real as possible so it fit into the down-to-Earth World Nolan has created. Second, give them a specific role that is unique to each one of the villains. For instance don`t make them all typical homicidal villains; don`t make all mob bosses either. And it has to make sens.

Mad Hatter could be just the psy to most crazies at Arkham Asylum. He doesn`t like Batman.

Penguin could just be the owner of Gotham`s biggest club, but somebody that knows everything, who use connection for his benefit. Talks and acts like a pig(I don`t mean a cop).

Catwoman could be just a cat burgler(not even with a costume) that Bat team with during a movie.

Bane could be a new vigilante trying to take down the Mob, but somebody that has connections to Batman who wants to take him down out of revenge.

Joker could be the son of a Mob boss. A son that is kind-of of a punk, crazy, and an addict. Intelligence above most people. His father always has to take an eye on him because of his antics, until Joker kills him and take over his father`s business. Ushering in a VERY different way to do criminal business.

Riddler in the most reimagined version yet, could be a wealthy, cultivated man that speak and dress like a gentleman. But would in fact be a serial killer. And his wealth would make him impossible to be incarnerated.

Two-Face is the DA, and he would be that way for the whole franchise, helping Batman in most of the cases. Until the very last Batman film(around 5 or 6) where he becomes the most dangerous, psychotic, most hard to arrest character Batman has ever faced.

I really want to see Bane done right. He'd be so awesome in this style of Batman. And I think Vin Diesel would be perfect. Just my humble opinion.

So, don't make them Batman villains at all. Sounds great.

I'm not sure anyone, from Diesel to Michael Clark Duncan, could cut to the heart of that character like Jeep Swenson did.

I would be extremely interested to see what Johnny Depp would do with the Joker.

And, please, NO Robin.

I would like to see Nightwing in it. Have Dick away at school

Depp as the Riddler comes to mind.

EDIT: Oops, wrong thread.

But to actually add something to the discussion, I'll concede that I'd love an unknown to play the role of The Joker. Someone that can truly bring out the paranoia and craziness from the character (read: not the same as campiness).

What I'd do:

Start out with Batman fairly easily capturing Joker and sending him to Arkham. Set up his and Dent's friendship, maybe with Dent talking publicly about how he values Batman's help.

Joker breaks out, probably with Harley's help, decides he wants to get Batman back. At this point, the film essentially turns into the Killing Joke, only with Harvey Dent instead of Comissioner Gordon (Joker could even shoot Dent's wife a la Barbara Gordon).

This would also add a lot to seeing Two-Face snap in the third film. Rather than simply turning evil after the acid splash, as has usually been depicted, it's simply the final straw. It's also add a lot of ironic weight to the "he's fine" bit at the end.

Just a thought.

They should use Killing Joke as the basis for the next movie. Just change the story to having Gordon's wife murdered by the Joker and his daughter kidnapped. Using flashbacks, as they did with Begins, the back story of the Joker can be told...

SHIT! I was going to suggest him thinking I was all smart. He would be a great choice!

Bettany is being seriously considered for the role.
He fits the profile: A good experienced actor but not a superstar who will dominate the film.
That is why I am against Depp or another "Big Name" playing the Joker. The previous Batman Films show us where that leads.

Let's keep Fan Fiction to the right section folks...........

Guy Pearce would be the perfect Harvey Dent/Two-Face.

Ummm...No.

Word is that Sean "I would never do a comic book film in my life, so why the fuck even start a rumor?" Penn, is up for the role of Harvey Dent / Two-Face.

Can you tell us who else, Mr Nolan?

No. The previous Batman movies show us an example of bad writing married with actors wrong for the roles. Depp is a far better actor than a lot of people in those movies, hell, he's one of the best actors around Hollywood period. Just writing him off as a "big name" really doesn't give him the credit he deserves.

According to AICN, it's The Joker.

http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=20563

The funniest thing about that AICN story is that the source is a "drunken Christian Bale."

I could see Penn as the Joker, he sure had a little bit of that vibe going during one of his best roles in CARLITO'S WAY. It would also be nice to see Penn work up the appetite to eat his words about Nicolas Cage "selling out."

They *could* be throwing Penn a bone, Jon Peters actually wanted him to play Superman at one point (but Jon Peters is a goddamn flake, so...), but there is just no way he'd do this; Joker, Two-Face, whatever...no way.

Indeed. Couldn't he just be stumbling all over himself saying something like, "That Sean Penn, he's such a joker"?

Please, no Sean Penn.

Paul Bettany sounds about right though, in that he could play crazy without it getting too campy.

I'd much rather see Paul Bettany in the role than Sean Penn.

Also... http://www.thesuperficial.com/archives/001030.html

Not even seeing if Bettany could be a better choice than Penn or Denis Leary, which I just can't imagine, will make me watch A KNIGHT'S TALE.

Does anyone know if my fellow countryman Lachy Hulme is still being considered for the greatest pop culture villain ever or was that just fanboy rumour bullshit?

What has Lachy Hulme done? I keep seeing his name, in stuff like AICN and IMDB, but has he been in anything? Why is he suddenly on the short list apparently?

I think Joker is quite obviously the sequel villain, and that's great. The subdued approach they seem to be taking is much better than the Gotham crime boss angle. I like the idea of him starting out as a plain old murderer, and sort of evolving with Batman into this legendary psycho.

I still like Timothy Olyphant for the part, though so many could be so good. Penn's a great actor, but I know he'd bitch and moan the whole time and want to hide his face for "selling out", so leave him alone. Give somebody a chance who's as jazzed about the role as Bale was for Batman.

What I would like to see is little cameos by lesser villains. Mr. ZZasz is a nothing villain, but it was a nice nod to the fans. I don't think Penguin needs his own film, but as part of the Gotham backdrop, in crime boss form, he might be nice. Mad Hatter doesn't need a film, but he could be a nice cameo. Stuff like that.

The Penguin should definitely be a crime boss taking over Falcone's place: Oswald "the Penguin" Cobblepot. And he must definitely have a problem with people calling him Penguin, much like Bugsy Siegel hated being called Bugsy.

I think it's fairly obvious in the first film that, before heading east, Bruce handed his coat to the future KING TUT.

Robin Williams as The Mad Hatter.

Why Williams? Have you seen One Hour Photo and Death to Smoochy? He could be a famous children's show host who gets booted off the air because of a scandal like Michael Jackson. He snaps, adopts his Mad Hatter on-air persona and becomes a dangerous child predator of blonde girls.


Two-Face: Julian McMahon.

Childhood friend of Bruce's, a rich kid, but abused. He grows up as a sex-crased playboy with a HUGE streak to do good even though he has so many flaws. Rage problems as a teenager.

Riddler: Terrorist for hire. Basically he'd be the villain from Die Hard: With a vengeance.

Penguin: A freak, but hellishly smart. No one can pin anything on him, and he and Batman have a grudging partnership when they both need favors.

Killer Croc: Freak with a bad skin problem and weirdly sharp teeth. Top hitman for Penguin.

Try not to stone me but I really like those two ideas, especially the Mad Hatter one. I don't know...that plot does seem plausible in the pseduo realism of this new batman world.

Fantastic Four will fuck up any movie potential that McMahon has....

I honestly don't think the riddler could work in this new batman world though. The Joker's gimmick is a huge level of psychosis mixed with a clown fetish, two face's gimmick is the dark and light side of a person. Both of these could be easily fitted into the world but unless you completely gut and rework the character the riddler and his riddles could never be anything less than jarring.

Here's my dreamcast for the upcoming batman sequels, tell me what you guys think.

Gregory Smith(Everwood) as Robin


Alexis Bledel as Barbara Gordon/Batgirl


Paul Giamatti as The Joker


Anna Faris as Harley Quinn


John Malkovich as Mr. Freeze


Paul Bettany as The Riddler


Cole Hauser as Harvey Dent/Two-Face


Alicia Witt as Poison Ivy


Melissa George as Selena Kyle/Catwoman


Rip Torn as The Penguin


Dominic Monaghan as The Mad Hatter


Nick Chinlund as Clayface


Oliver Martinez as Bane


David Hyde Pierce as The Clock King


Tom 'Tiny' Lister Jr. as Killer Croc


And I don't know how to put pictures in, because i have really good ones to put in, if i could.

I can see some of those working. The Giamatti Joker sounds good because I'm dead set on having a Joker that is completely different from Bale. While Malkovich would make a good Mr. Freeze I think it is almost impossible to get a live action version of that character who doesn't end up looking silly.

That's a good point. Assuming they get Nolan back, which for me is a must I could see him going in some unexpected routes with the villains. The classic Rogues Gallery is as yet, untouched, and Giamatti is on the right track IMO. Make him pathetic, not at all sexy, but disturbingly dangerous and psychotic.

I think Two-Face is the second best Batman villain over all. I really like the Liev Schrieber idea for him.

After that I think, regardless of her recent travesty, Catwoman should be considered. She was never as good separated from Batman, and given the setup, she could work very well. They have sort of set Bruce up as this loner when it comes to love, incapable of maintaining a real relationship because Bruce Wayne is just a mask for Batman. Then you introduce Catwoman, who is attracted to that side of him, and he to her. They are similar enough to be attracted to each other, but on opposite sides of the law. Could be good.

With the Joker, Two-Face, and Catwoman, I think you have all the villains you need. I think that others could make appearances ether as cameos like Mr. ZZasz, or in brief, almost henchman roles a la Scarecrow. I can't see the Penguin, Riddler, or Mr. Freeze making starring appearances in Nolan's Bat-universe.

And I wouldn't put it beyond them to use Bane. He's a great villain in so many ways, and you could sort of condense Knightfall into one film, like "Rocky III", where he falls, and we then have to see him work his way back. It would be a way to show another facet of Batman and his drive.

I could see the Penguin working down the road as long as they make him a straight up crime boss character. Maybe not the central villain of a film but a supporting figure like Falcone was in BEGINS, who I still hope shows up in these films.

I'm just riffing here, but I could see the Bane angle going well with a BATMAN film that includes Robin. Have at least one film showing Batman mentor Robin as believably as Wayne was taught. Then set up Batman's pounding by Bane and have Robin take over instead of Azriel. Robin goes a bit too far, Batman has to try to control his creation and then you get Nightwing. Again, this is all stuff that would be interesting down the line, after the Joker/Two-Face stories are (hopefully well) done

Justin Fucking Timberlake as Two-Face?!?!?

Dear god let that rumour be debunked soon.

Anna Faris as Harley??

HAWT!

This may be a long shot theory, but someone mentioned it before in another thread and I wanted to bring it up again after having seen the movie a second time.

The thought was that the little boy that Batman talked to may return to the fold in the future as Robin. I have a number of reasons to believe this. But fair warning: They're fairly obscure and VERY nerdy.

1. Many of the times we see adult Bruce Wayne in civilian clothes, including his Prison Garb, it's some combination of Navy Blue and Gray, which are of course the Bat-suit colors from the vintage comics. I nice little visual cue to the character's other identity. In the final Narrows Freak-Out scenes Little Boy has on a Bright Red T-Shirt. Stands out a bit.

2. Also Why include him in this scene anyway other than to re-establish his importance as a character and his trust in Batman? We've already seen the effects of the fear gas. It's redundant to have him there simply to establish Rachel as heroic or to dramatize the tension of the scene. It also gives him a chance to announce that his Parents are missing, and for the audience to presume they are dead. Orphan? Check. Trust in Batman? Check. TIES to Batman...

3. The first time they meet, Batman tosses the boy one of his gadgets. This seems like a silly thing to include unless it's meant to have some kind of payoff. In the animated series they reintroduced Robin as Tim Drake/Jason Todd by making him a toughened street orphan who practiced with a found Batarang. could be the same deal. Of course this begs the question WHICH Robin this is modeled after if he does turn out to be the Boy Wonder. Calling Him Jason dooms him right away and Tim may be too obscure. They could call him Dick and excise the circus origin in favor of an algamation of all three versions of Batman's sidekick.

4. Finally, I don't recall reading any bits with this kid in the leaked Script. Granted my memory may be hazy and that was just a draft anyway, but if I'm correct that means all of these scenes were altered or added late in the game or as an afterthought. They possibily hinged on the ability to find a solid kid actor, which from what little we've scene this kid seemed to be. This would lead me to believe that there is something more to these scenes than appears on the surface, especially with the extended reaction shot on Batman the last time he's in Little Boy's presence.

Like I said these are all long shot theories but the film is fresh in my mind. A few other thoughts on the film since the Post-Release Discussion has been shot to hell:

-"Drunken" Bruce rants about his "Two-Faced" friends. Funny. You have no idea, Bats.

- I really like the way Alfred keeps Bruce grounded throughout the film. This is, as I said before, the purpose of Alfred and Gordon and Robin and the rest of the Exteded "Batman Family," and as much as I enjoyed the way it was presented there I hope it's explored further.

- Batman leaving on people in mid-sentence, especially Gordon, is hilarious. I hope by a possible third film or sooner Commisioner Gordon is muttering "I hate it when he does that" as he often does in the funny books.

- This may be my Graphic Designer sense tingling, but The Joker Card at the end was very vintage-looking. It wasn't the typical cartoony Joker Playing card. It had muted hues and an almost victorian feeling. I expect this to reflect the way Nolan and Goyer would plan to present the character: As a grandoise operatic psychopath as opposed to a buffoonish clown

- Carmine Falcone is nuts now. There's room for a new Mafia boss in town. Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot will do. it's about time for machine gun umbrellas to make their triumphant return to the cinema.

- The Arkham escape has given us the Joker. This is a great way to have appearances of other villains in future films without wasting running time on Origins. Their origins are simple: They were already crazy criminals before Batman came along and they've just now escaped. The last exchange between Batman and Gordon was a perfect warning. I love the Way Batman just nodded and agreed, like "Yeah, whatever, I'll take care of it."

Gregory Smith as Robin is not a bad idea.

He needs to lose some of the angst though.

This is interesting . . .

Could this work? I am not too sure it will.