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The "big reveal"(?) in BATMAN BEGINS

post #1 of 20
7/15/05 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Read THIS first. There be spoilers, of course.

Okay, so am I the only one who wasn't shocked or amazed by this so-called "reveal"? The way Ducard talked about the ninja group at the beginning it sounded like a rather traditional or regimented organization. When Ducard shows up as Ra's Al Ghul at the end I assumed he just took the title because Watanabe gets done in up in the mountains- someone needs to be the new head guy. And besides that, who was surprised when Neeson showed up at the end in the first place?
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post #2 of 20
7/15/05 at 4:58pm
Yeah, they should have given "Big Al" Ghul a bigger part other than be translated by Ducard. That was totally transparent.
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post #3 of 20
7/15/05 at 5:50pm
*** Spoiler ***


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Ducard is and always was Ra's Al Ghul. Watanabe's char was a puppet, posing as Ghul. But, I'm pretty sure most people knew that.


FYI, they said "punk'd" in that article, I hate that phrase.

BTW, I thought the reveal was the ending, who the next villain is going to be.
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post #4 of 20
7/15/05 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravedigger
And besides that, who was surprised when Neeson showed up at the end in the first place?
Anyone who thought that an actor of Neeson's stature would have been brought in just to exit the film unconscious in a hut barely 30 minutes in probably needs to watch more movies.

And anybody with a passing knowledge of comic book facial hair would have pegged Ducard as the real Al Ghul from the moment he showed his face.
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post #5 of 20
7/15/05 at 5:57pm
Not quite on topic, but before it came out, I saw some interviews and stuff where people talked about something in the third act of the film that would really shock fans. I gather that this was Wayne Manor burning down, but really, did anyone find that to be a particularly daring move, story-wise?
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post #6 of 20
7/15/05 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke, Raol
Not quite on topic, but before it came out, I saw some interviews and stuff where people talked about something in the third act of the film that would really shock fans. I gather that this was Wayne Manor burning down, but really, did anyone find that to be a particularly daring move, story-wise?
Did you read this thread? The shock in the third act is specifically the 'reveal'.
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post #7 of 20
7/15/05 at 6:53pm
I was referring, specifically, to a feature in Maxim magazine about screenwriting written by David Goyer. A piece of advice he gives in it is to punish the hell out of your protagonist, and always be asking "what's the worst thing that could happen to him right now?" Then he mentioned how he did this writing BB and added something about 2/3rds through that would really shock the fans. I guess he could have been talking about "the reveal". I made the connection because I thought the loss of the mansion was a bigger blow to Wayne than finding out about Al Ghul. I mean, even when he thought of him as Ducard, he knew he was a bit of a twat.
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post #8 of 20
7/15/05 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
Anyone who thought that an actor of Neeson's stature would have been brought in just to exit the film unconscious in a hut barely 30 minutes in probably needs to watch more movies.

And anybody with a passing knowledge of comic book facial hair would have pegged Ducard as the real Al Ghul from the moment he showed his face.


I know it wasn't too hard to figure out, but they did make an effort.
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post #9 of 20
7/15/05 at 7:18pm
Thread Starter 
Sounds to me like Goyer was tooting his own horn. I'm sure he was referring to the Ducard bit (the whole "mentor turns on his student" thing) but I'm with you, Duke. The destruction of Stately Wayne Manor hit me harder that the "OMG!1 Ducard is teh bad guy!1!!" moment.
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post #10 of 20
7/15/05 at 7:51pm
I liked the idea of Ducard using "cheap parlor tricks" in creating an illusion of another person, being Watanabe's Ra's al Ghul. It shows the magnitude of al Ghul's abilities as a sorcerer and I wouldn't be suprised if he shows up again later in the series.
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post #11 of 20
7/15/05 at 11:16pm
About halfway through I started thinking how only on the internet i'd find such an article making such a big deal about a films twist like that then I noticed the MTV at the end.

It was hardly a surprise, sure i'm one of the people who knew after the script leaked [not willingly though ] but as Dan says, if you expect Neeson to be Blackout McFool and exit right away you just don't know movies........and the namedropping of Ra's Al Ghul twice or so didn't help.
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post #12 of 20
7/16/05 at 6:45am
Hell, Wayne himself didn't even seem that surprised to find out Al Ghul's identity. A bit flustered about having a group of civilization-destroying ninjas crash his birthday bash, maybe, but I think that's understandable. I remember feeling pretty much the same way when I turned eight and had to share the party room at Chuckie Cheese's with the Shredder and the Foot Clan.
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post #13 of 20
7/16/05 at 9:08am
I think that it's great to hear about all the effort that Nolan went through to keep this quiet, but wasn't there an early rumor that Neeson was going to appear as al Ghul? I remember being surprised when I saw that he was going to be "Ducard" instead.
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post #14 of 20
7/16/05 at 9:49am
See, I saw the burning of Wayne Manor as more of an excuse to do-up the Batcave than to serve as a big shocker to the fans or as a crushing blow to Bruce. I mean, the guy didn't really even blink at the fact that the house he grew up in burned down.
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post #15 of 20
7/16/05 at 11:17am
The big reveal is worthless. Liam still seems to be a badass that runs the show whether hes is named Ra's Al Ghul or Ducard. The name Ra's doesnt hold any special value in the film especially if youre a casual moviegoer unfamiliar with the comic.
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post #16 of 20
7/16/05 at 11:32am
Later He told Alfred He will rebuild it brick by brick in the exact way it was, there's some subtext around there even a dumb one.
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post #17 of 20
7/16/05 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feral Akodon
Later He told Alfred He will rebuild it brick by brick in the exact way it was, there's some subtext around there even a dumb one.
Actually, I think that was just to cover themselves when they use the exact same real-life building for exterior shots in the sequel.
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post #18 of 20
7/18/05 at 1:36am
Although I read the script beforehand, there were a number of points in which I imagine I would have guessed it. The facial hair, of course, but also there's that point where Ra's is fighting Bruce and then the wood falls on him, and there's a shot of his head tilted back, unconscious. Bruce them runs over to Ducard, who's head is in the exact same place, in the same manner, to carry him out.

That being said, yes, cheap parlor trick. When Bruce is ontroduced to Ra's near the end at the party, I also didn't really get when they got that short Asian guy to look vaguely like him for about three seconds. Also, I kinda thought Ra's wasn't that smart a guy. Isn't he supposed to be a genius?
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post #19 of 20
7/18/05 at 3:00am
Watanabe's character wasn't an illusion or cheap parlor trick, he was a diversionary tactic, a patsy. Ducard simply put one of his students in the seat of power, as a way to prevent anyone from discovering who was really in charge. When Watanabe's character dies, Ducard simply replaced him with another student thus the " Short Asian Guy".
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post #20 of 20
7/18/05 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke, Raol
Not quite on topic, but before it came out, I saw some interviews and stuff where people talked about something in the third act of the film that would really shock fans. I gather that this was Wayne Manor burning down, but really, did anyone find that to be a particularly daring move, story-wise?
No. Just a dumb and unnecessary one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBM
I liked the idea of Ducard using "cheap parlor tricks" in creating an illusion of another person, being Watanabe's Ra's al Ghul. It shows the magnitude of al Ghul's abilities as a sorcerer and I wouldn't be suprised if he shows up again later in the series.
Sorcerer? What?
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