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Greatest Sci-fi Film of All Time...

post #1 of 86
7/17/05 at 11:38am
Thread Starter 
Its not a statement, its a question.

You see, I got round to seeing War of the Worlds on wednesday and the next day, a guy at work asked, "So, is it the greatest sci-fi film of all time?", paraphrasing a review that has been run on the ads on TV. "No," was the answer he got, but it got me to thinking, what is? And how could you possibly classify it? There are so many sub-genres within sci-fi, that to name one would be to ignore 100 others.

Some would say Star Wars, but that to me isn't even pure sci-fi. I mean, technically it is, but its more just fantasy and this is where the problem comes in. I still wouldn't put Star Wars tops.

To me the greatest sci-fi films are the ones that are sci-fi in concept only. Stuff like Seconds or Brazil or Primer. All absolutely classic. I'd throw in Blade Runner too, though that's little more than "gumshoe in the future", just for its design and its ruminations on memory and existence.

So come on, give me some good ones and let the arguing commence.

(Fifty bucks/pounds/euros to the person who can make a legitimate argument for Event Horizon over all others...)
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post #2 of 86
7/17/05 at 12:44pm
yes, there are tons of movies, but no matter what i keep always coming back to 2001: a space odyssey, that's such a great movie, there aren't any other movies in it's league when it comes to sci fi IMHO.
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post #3 of 86
7/17/05 at 1:18pm
Ah, actually Star Wars is not sci-fi, not technically or in any other sense, it's pure 100% fantasy. Space ships and "laser blasters" do not a sci-fi film make. Primer is a great example of a sci-fi movie with neither of those things. Generally 2001 is considered the best of all sci-fi films. It's also the only film I can think of, off hand, that treats the environment of space correctly with correct physics, no sound etc.
Blade Runner is a very good sci-fi movie. At the near-fantasy end of the spectrum I like Wrath of Khan a lot. Right now I have to say my favorite Science Fiction movie is Ghost in the Shell: Innocence. I'm desperately waiting for a decent DVD release of it, hopefully a nice 2-disk special edition... where the hell is it already!
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post #4 of 86
7/17/05 at 1:30pm
I dunno if these flicks qualify with your definitions of sci-fi but here goes:

- Terminator 1 &2
- Alien/ Aliens
- Blade Runner
- Robocop
- 2001
- The Matrix
- Gattaca
- Contact
- Minority Report
- A.I.
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post #5 of 86
7/17/05 at 1:46pm
To me, the best Sci-Fi is definitely Alien. It Beats out Blade Runner, 2001, Jurassic Park, Gattaca, and Event Horizon by a small margin. It really has everything you could ask for in a sci fi movie; Aliens, Robots, Spaceships, Windy Planets. And if I remember correctly, as with 2001, it deals with space physics correctly (it just doesn't show it off as much). Alien and Aliens are definitely the best one-two punch in sci fi.
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post #6 of 86
7/17/05 at 1:51pm
Total Recall...period.

"see you at the party Richter!"
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post #7 of 86
7/17/05 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by burt_frogblast
To me, the best Sci-Fi is definitely Alien. And if I remember correctly, as with 2001, it deals with space physics correctly (it just doesn't show it off as much).
It has at least one flaw from a scientific angle - the ship has artificial gravity. It's hardly even mentioned. The gravity is even turned on when everyone is in those hybernation pods- why? They never discuss mucking with the grav as a way to foil the alien. It's still a sci-fi movie, and a great one at that, but it is primarily a horror film. Aliens has a similar problem. When the lander full of marines drops suddenly out the bottom of the mother-ship. There's no reason it would do that. You can't just suddenly fall out of orbit.
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post #8 of 86
7/17/05 at 2:23pm
From the Earth to the Moon - old school using the state of the art in knowledge at the time. Dated, but still a fine effort.

2001 - The gold standard. Just excellent in concept and execution.

The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - Used the SF concept of selective memory wiping as a backdrop for a deep and powerful character piece. It made you think...and that's the best feature of a good SF story to me.

But my number one is and will likely remain - The Shape of Things To Come. Prescient in the extreme, with design equal in its day to Blade Runner (still one of my fave flicks ever...Rutger and Harrison *ruled* in that movie) and thoughtful in its approach. It's a personal favorite, but that's what this thread is all about, right?
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post #9 of 86
7/17/05 at 3:05pm
I have to go with THEY LIVE. I'm always partial to Sci-Fi films that use satire within the genre to get across their message, which is probably why ROBOCOP is my #2 choice. Though I'll admit the fight scene in LIVE probably factors in somewhere.
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post #10 of 86
7/17/05 at 3:16pm
BLADE RUNNER.

I don't really see ALIEN as sci-fi. It's a haunted house movie dressed in sci-fi clothing.
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post #11 of 86
7/17/05 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fett
I don't really see ALIEN as sci-fi. It's a haunted house movie dressed in sci-fi clothing.
The basic plot is standard monster movie/haunted house fare, but the atmosphere and the attitude is pure SF. Alien was the first movie to present space travel as another crappy day job with no redeeming qualities.
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post #12 of 86
7/17/05 at 4:01pm
I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but I didn't like 2001. Just because it spent long periods of time showing spaceships moving in a realistic manner with classic music playing doesn't make it a good sci-fi film. It's an acid trip of an excuse for a thoughtful movie.

Oh, and as for all the people saying it's so realistic, that shot where the monolith makes everyone try to cover their ears on the moon because of the sound it's emmiting: Sound waves can't propagate in space. Unless it's supposed to be some sort of "psychic" sound. But then, is articificial gravity that much harder to swallow?

Something like Blade Runner, on the other hand, is good sci-fi. In no other setting could you have the concept of artificial humans and whether they have a right to exist or not. The suprise ending on the director's cut just adds to the moral quandry.
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post #13 of 86
7/17/05 at 4:08pm
Here's my vote. You cannot dismiss elements of futuristic science fiction based on what we know to be possible today. We didn't think it would be possible to get to the moon, yet we did. We didn't think it was possible to Mars, yet we did. We didn't think we'd have a computer small enough to fit on a desktop, yet we did.. We didn't think we'd have 'rocket ships' yet we have spaceshuttles (very similiar in design to some old science fiction movies). Good science fiction drives society to achieve what they see as 'fiction' into reality. Note, we didn't think we'd have flying cars... yet we have those also I've been following this one for almost 9 years now? maybe a little less.. skycar of tomorrow, by Christmas 2006!

Here's an article for those haters who feel star wars is nothing but fantasy Star Wars Technology used today!

Best scifi films in no particular order:
WestWorld
Planet of the Apes
The Last Star Fighter
Tron
Star Trek: everything except voyager and enterprise
Star Wars Trilogy (first one)
Back To The Future 2. (take a look at it now and tell me how much of that is closer to reality)
The Day The Earth Stood Still(51)
Runaway(with tom selleck)
Terminator films
2010
2001
Alien movies (we've seen what happens when they are on earth... obviously, the sci-fi element works better)


thats all I can think of off the top of my head I have more in my collection that I could mention but I wouldn't say they're THE BEST
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post #14 of 86
7/17/05 at 5:15pm
The Guyver.
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post #15 of 86
7/17/05 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y3k-Bug
The Guyver.


Gotta love it...

Anyways...I was always partial to Dark City although it is much more of a sci-fantasy than anything else.

Does Until The Ends of the Earth (World?) by Wim Wender's count as that was one of my favourite movies when I was younger?
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post #16 of 86
7/17/05 at 5:43pm
Blade Runner
Solaris
Minority Report leading up to Anderton's arrest
I enjoyed War of the Worlds a lot ( the new one).
12 Monkey's
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post #17 of 86
7/17/05 at 5:51pm
[QUOTE=wydren]I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but I didn't like 2001. Just because it spent long periods of time showing spaceships moving in a realistic manner with classic music playing doesn't make it a good sci-fi film. QUOTE]


You're absolutely right. That's just a small element of what makes it the best sci-fi film ever. It has a jaw-dropping vision of the future and space travel, from the epic scale to the most banal design details, and it ultimately manages to align its plausible sci-fi plotline with our deepest spiritual questions. It is deeply thought-provoking, incredibly imaginative, and poetic. I love many of the films mentioned so far, but 2001 is the best, hands down.
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post #18 of 86
7/17/05 at 5:59pm
Well to be honest if you discount Alien as Sci Fi and opt for pure Sci Fi as 2001 then really it can be argued that nothing is truely pure Sci Fi. After all 2001's Sci fi trappings were just extrapolations from research being done by NASA JPL at the time. So in the end 2001 is really a fantasy about contact with aliens with near Science Fact trappings on it...

And really from there you can argue that all SF is really another genre of story with a Sf cover of spaceships, aliens and virtual reality thrown on top... theres no such thing as a "pure" SF film.

Personally I have my favorite SF movies but are they pure Sf? Its arguable that they are not....

The list in no particular order is..

Akira
Blade Runner
Alien
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Empire Strikes Back

There are others like Solaris, The Thing, The Matrix and so on that I like but in the end none of them are pure SF and I honestly dont think such a film exists...
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post #19 of 86
7/17/05 at 7:37pm
All of you should be ashamed that no one has mentioned Forbidden Planet.
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post #20 of 86
7/17/05 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren
Oh, and as for all the people saying it's so realistic, that shot where the monolith makes everyone try to cover their ears on the moon because of the sound it's emmiting: Sound waves can't propagate in space.
It's a radio signal; the "sound" is feedback from the astronauts' comm systems in their spacesuits due to their close proximity to the monolith.
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post #21 of 86
7/17/05 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jampry
How could "The Fifth Element" not be mentioned, I had forgot to mention it.
Because it is utter garbage. Chris Tucker as the inspiration for Jar Jar Binks is the number one reason against it being near a quality film.
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post #22 of 86
7/18/05 at 12:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
All of you should be ashamed that no one has mentioned Forbidden Planet.
...or 'This Island Earth'...[and 'Forbidden Planet' is just Shakespeare's 'The Tempest' with tinfoil suits and a hot alien chick.]

So...what is this thing you call Science-Fiction?
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post #23 of 86
7/18/05 at 12:42am
[QUOTE=Bemis]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren
I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but I didn't like 2001. Just because it spent long periods of time showing spaceships moving in a realistic manner with classic music playing doesn't make it a good sci-fi film. QUOTE]


You're absolutely right. That's just a small element of what makes it the best sci-fi film ever. It has a jaw-dropping vision of the future and space travel, from the epic scale to the most banal design details, and it ultimately manages to align its plausible sci-fi plotline with our deepest spiritual questions. It is deeply thought-provoking, incredibly imaginative, and poetic. I love many of the films mentioned so far, but 2001 is the best, hands down.

2001 is as thought-provoking as a wet noodle. It not Forbidden Planet, planet of the apes(1968), Blade Runner, or The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951). planet of the apes(1968) is probable the most thought provoking sci-fi film, and one of 5 or 10 most thought provoking film I seen.
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post #24 of 86
7/18/05 at 12:49am
[QUOTE=eenin][QUOTE=Bemis]


2001 is as thought-provoking as a wet noodle.

goddamn i should've noticed that before!! now i'll have deep and thought provoking conversation with food
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post #25 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:19am
I seriously can't do anything but keep going back to 2001.

But really, this is merely the first in a series of sub-questions, and inevitably, the second question has to be, "What's the difference between science fiction and fantasy?"
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post #26 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:47am
Normally I don't like straight sci-fi but for what I have watched I gotta go with
a total cop out. Star Trek 4.
Something about how bad a film it is apeals to me. It's so cheesey that I love it.
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post #27 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:51am
Anyone here seen "Zombies of the Stratosphere"?

Pure 50s B-grade sci-fi garbage. A police detective with a rocket pack (that he takes off with by utilising a not-very-obvious gym springboard) fights to stop a bunch of aliens (alright zombies, but they just look like normal humans) from blowing the Earth out of orbit with an "H-bomb".

It is not the greatest sci-fi film of all time.
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post #28 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Black
It has at least one flaw from a scientific angle - the ship has artificial gravity. It's hardly even mentioned. The gravity is even turned on when everyone is in those hybernation pods- why? They never discuss mucking with the grav as a way to foil the alien. It's still a sci-fi movie, and a great one at that, but it is primarily a horror film. Aliens has a similar problem. When the lander full of marines drops suddenly out the bottom of the mother-ship. There's no reason it would do that. You can't just suddenly fall out of orbit.
Well, as I was saying, Alien doesn't really flaunt the technology, it just uses it. There could be a number of reasons why it's always kept on; same with the alien mucking. One thing that makes a sci-fi go from cool to silly is the overuse of technology in conversations and plot.
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post #29 of 86
7/18/05 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by burt_frogblast
Well, as I was saying, Alien doesn't really flaunt the technology, it just uses it. There could be a number of reasons why it's always kept on; same with the alien mucking. One thing that makes a sci-fi go from cool to silly is the overuse of technology in conversations and plot.
That's all true, and I was picking nits. The only reason I would have liked to see them maybe turn off, fluctuate or alternate the gravity on the ship is that it would have been a nifty IQ test for the alien. It's never been revealed to my satisfaction just how intelligent they are. Are they bright, or are they just amazing predators with superb instincts? Dumb animals have a tendency to react badly to free-fall or zero G. Would the alien figure it out like a human would, or just flail about?
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post #30 of 86
7/18/05 at 4:09am
who the fuck even mentioned event horizon? jesus christ.

alien is fantastic, but there arent many films ever made in any genre that stand up to 2001, imo. so my pick is 2001.

alien and blade runner are close seconds. what happened to you ridley? matchstick men and kingdom of heaven? double yawn.
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post #31 of 86
7/18/05 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazer
"see you at the party Richter!"
without question one of the best quotes ever.
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post #32 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:22am
For me it's Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I'm surprised it took 19 posts to get its first mention. I guess because it doesn't contain alot of the elements associated with sci-fi (other worlds, the future, robots, lasers). But it's got spaceships and aliens, and it's good enough that it's about more than contact with aliens. It's about people (that is, human beings-- aliens are people too).
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post #33 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eenin
2001 is as thought-provoking as a wet noodle. It not Forbidden Planet, planet of the apes(1968), Blade Runner, or The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951). planet of the apes(1968) is probable the most thought provoking sci-fi film, and one of 5 or 10 most thought provoking film I seen.
Planet of the Apes works fine as political allegory, but as science fiction it's painfully dopey. Why does it take so long for Charlton Heston to figure out what planet he's on when he's surrounded by Earth-like flora and fauna (including human beings) and all the apes speak English? I mean, the guy's an astronaut, fer Chrissakes. He should be able to look at the night sky and notice that the constellations are the same as seen from his home world. (They wouldn't have changed all that much in a few thousand years.)

As long as people go on thinking that Apes is a profound genre film, SF movies will be trapped in Fucking Stupidville, and we'll be stuck with credulously "relevant" shit like The Island and adaptations of whatever alarmist crap Michael Crichton turned out to pay his alimony bills.
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post #34 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCynic
alien and blade runner are close seconds. what happened to you ridley? matchstick men and kingdom of heaven? double yawn.
I suspect that around 1996 or so Ridley and Tony Scott fused into a single, mediocre movie making organism.
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post #35 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y3k-Bug
The Guyver.
"Ahhhh, Richard Dean Anderson's gonna be in my dreams tonight!"
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post #36 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningLouie
As long as people go on thinking that Apes is a profound genre film, SF movies will be trapped in Fucking Stupidville, and we'll be stuck with credulously "relevant" shit like The Island and adaptations of whatever alarmist crap Michael Crichton turned out to pay his alimony bills.
If thinking APES is great means you're a citizen of Stupidville, I guess I've been living there a long time.
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post #37 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
...or 'This Island Earth'...[and 'Forbidden Planet' is just Shakespeare's 'The Tempest' with tinfoil suits and a hot alien chick.]
Forbidden Planet is several degrees of magnitude better than This Island Earth, and its production values are much higher than the "tinfoil suit" aesthetic of most '50s genre movies. In fact, it's one of the few SF movies made before 2001 that actually looks like it had a decent budget; the visual effects are way ahead of their time, and MGM kept recycling the costumes, sets and props for years afterward. Sure, the acting is wooden and there are lots of cheesy touches, but it holds up really well for a nearly fifty-year-old flick.

Oh, and incidentally, the chick, while hot, is not an alien. Gene Roddenberry borrowed most of the core ideas in Star Trek from Forbidden Planet (especially the heroic troika of captain-doctor-science officer), but the alien babes were an original flourish.
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post #38 of 86
7/18/05 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fett
If thinking APES is great means you're a citizen of Stupidville, I guess I've been living there a long time.
I like Apes just fine, and I have a soft spot for the sequels as well. I just don't think the movies work at all as science fiction.
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post #39 of 86
7/18/05 at 7:19am
The definitions of science fiction vary greatly. Some define it has fiction that is explained through actual science. Such as Michael Crichton, or Greg Bear. Some dont consider writers such as Orson Scott Card to be real Sci Fi since he doesnt really use science to explain concepts.

The other more often used definition is. Science Fiction is something that could be. And fantasy is something that couldnt be. I think I like this definition the best. Especially concerning movies. Movies just dont have the same opportunity as novels to explain the science. At best we have Jurrasic Park, or Space Oddysey, which try to have some real science behind it.

But the line between science and fantasy can definetly become blured, such as with Dark City, which is one of my favorite films. Gatacca, Bladerunner, and 2001 are probably my votes for best Sci Fi films.
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post #40 of 86
7/18/05 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningLouie
It's a radio signal; the "sound" is feedback from the astronauts' comm systems in their spacesuits due to their close proximity to the monolith.
EXPLAINED!
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post #41 of 86
7/18/05 at 8:37am
For me, one of the best sci-fi movies of all time, besides many of those mentioned above, is The Incredible Shrinking Man. Not only are the effects top-notch (for the time), but the story is one which I have always found to be emotionally powerful. It's perhaps the perfect B-movie. I can't see such a movie being made in the age we live in now.
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post #42 of 86
7/18/05 at 8:59am
The id monster makes Forbidden Planet more than just The Tempest in space.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Metropolis yet. Certainly the most visionary of science fiction films until at least Forbidden Planet.

Other favorites that spring to mind:

2001
The Manchurian Candidate (The brainwashing method is certainly beyond the scope of science at the time.)
Robocop
Star Trek II
Blade Runner
The Thing (either version)
Alien/Aliens
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post #43 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:16pm
Gattaca a film I have real appreciation for now that I didn't have upon the first time I watched it.
The Matrix(sequels not included)
Donnie Darko
Abre los ojos(Open your Eyes/Vanilla Sky)
Intacto
Cube
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post #44 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:25pm
[QUOTE=eenin]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemis


2001 is as thought-provoking as a wet noodle. It not Forbidden Planet, planet of the apes(1968), Blade Runner, or The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951). planet of the apes(1968) is probable the most thought provoking sci-fi film, and one of 5 or 10 most thought provoking film I seen.

All of the films you mention are terrific, and Blade Runner and The Day the Earth Stood Still would both make my top 10 list. But 2001 is still a more profound film to me (well, Blade Runner is really close, I admit). While the other movies you mentioned have some pretty big ideas, 2001 not only gets to the most elemental questions of being and evolution, and it does so in an unpretentious but elegant and entertaining (for me, anyway) manner. "Apes is us" just can't quite compare in my mind.
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post #45 of 86
7/18/05 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCynic
alien is fantastic, but there arent many films ever made in any genre that stand up to 2001, imo. so my pick is 2001.

alien and blade runner are close seconds. what happened to you ridley? matchstick men and kingdom of heaven? double yawn.

I seem to remember Kubrick making some unpopular films in the wake of 2001 as well. I loved them, though.

My SF "best" list would have to include (in no order):

2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY
BLADE RUNNER
ALIEN
SOLARIS (both versions)
GATTACA
John Carpenter's THE THING
THE TERMINATOR
PLANET OF THE APES
FORBIDDEN PLANET
THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND
THE ROAD WARRIOR

I know some of those are genre hybrids but if the stories are largely futuristic and/or extraterrestrial-related, I'm lumping them in regardless of how much action or horror they might include.

EDIT: Yes, good call on PRIMER. We'll see how it ages but it's certainly worth considering.
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post #46 of 86
7/18/05 at 2:02pm
I will go with 2001 and Primer.
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post #47 of 86
7/18/05 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster
Some dont consider writers such as Orson Scott Card to be real Sci Fi since he doesnt really use science to explain concepts.
I don't think of OSC as a real writer of any kind. Ender's Game is like a bad South Park episode.
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post #48 of 86
7/18/05 at 7:01pm
What about some sci-fi that have become cult classics? Brazil, Escape from New York, A Clockwork Orange, eXistenZ, and The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension come to mind. Maybe not all classics, but they have a cult-like following.
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post #49 of 86
7/18/05 at 7:38pm
Thread Starter 
For the record, my favourites in the "genre" as wide as it can be cast are:

12 Monkeys - Willis' best performance by a mile, awesome viuals from Gilliam and the finest use of La Jetee's inspiration as a "straightforward" narrative. Bleak and uplifting and intelligent.

2001: A Space Odyssey - everything everyone has said is correct and that's why this film is truly one of the greats. Enigmatic, profound, beautiful, disturbing, brilliant. 2001 is all this and more.

Primer - Pure sci-fi with nothing but a killer concept going for it. No-frills example of the power of the mind in cinema. Destined to become a cult classic.

Seconds - surreal and haunting, for me this is the most potent example of sci-fi grounded in a very real world. Excellent performances all round, ground-breaking technique, thoroughly satisfying and accessible brain food for the masses. Arguably Frankenheimer's best and least recognised film.

Blade Runner - possibly the most influential film visually in this or any genre. Genius in either cut, there is too much to love here. My favourite Ridley film to boot.

Close Encounters of the Third Kind - Again, grounded in reality, this is a shining example of the wonder of the unknown and the tangibility of discovery. Beautifully shot and acted, it is by turns funny, scary, saddening, frustrating, clever and finally awe-inspiring.

Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein - Sure, they may be horror, but they are also about the science of man challenging God. Wonderfully eccentric and expressionistic in places, they still have the power to thrill, engage and shock.

This has been a pleasure to read and write, folks. And I was worried I would get laughed off for starting this thread. Thank you for your concise entries and for not allowing the 2001 debate to become a slanging match. I stlll have issues with that film, but I cannot deny its brilliance. And i'm not sure that I, nor anyone, will ever be able to say they fully understand it. Perhaps it really is the grandaddy. Or perhaps we just do not understand the awesomeness of Paul W S Anderson's Event Horizon yet. Or Plan 9 From Outer Space.

Ah well, here's to our kids...
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post #50 of 86
7/18/05 at 8:16pm
Things to Come (1936): Another Wells adaptation that forecast the outcome and consequences of World War II. The SFX, even if you're not looking at them in the context of the time period when the film was made, are astounding. The same is true of Forbidden Planet -- and both films are also dealing not just with technology, but with moral and philosophical concepts. THAT'S what good science fiction does.
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