Superman. - Page 3

Yeah well you can't blame Donner for that.
That scene makes no sense, though. But neither does the Lester fire pit thing.

Wrong answer.

Right answer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Luthor is great in Superman. Hackman does a great job with the comedy, but most impressive is his ability to have the character represent an actual threat in the final act after all of that.

Yes, but did Hackman's Luthor get to wear a purple and green battle suit? No? I rest my case.

I think Superman Returns works very well as a grad school dissertation, but fails utterly as a movie. It's a fascinating dissection, imo, of Superman's vanity. There are several moments (when he steps off the plane, when he arrives in the Daily Planet newsroom and sees all the TV) when he revels in the adoration of his fans. All of his heroic deeds are basically him showing off. Like when he faces down the bank robber with the gatling gun: of course we, and he, knows he's not going to get hurt. He's just pissed that Lois has rejected him and is looking for some acknowledgment and attention.

Meanwhile, we are given examples of real heroism in the form of Lois and Richard White. Lois doing actual reporting and standing up to Luthor, and Richard risking his life to save Lois and her son. Superman's character arc actually seems to come from him learning from Lois and Richard's example: after he's been stabbed with the Kryptonite and decides to jump out of the plane, there is indeed a chance he can die. He's risking his life, and doing so away from the public eye.

I like, as well, how when he throws the island out into space, he's (basically) throwing a chunk of Krypton away. He's rejecting his old home (after chasing after it at the beginning of the movie) and embracing his new (hence the whole speech to his son at the end).

Again, interesting as a term paper, but boring as hell when stretched out over 2 1/2 hours. Anyone remember those rumors that Singer had tried to get Jude Law to play General Zod? How would that have worked? Luthor would have broken him out of prison and restored his powers some how?

As a proud Superman Returns apologist/fan...

I've often speculated that if that same story had been written as a comic/graphic novel or something, a lot of people would've praised the very things they hate about the film.

I've never heard someone (granted, I don't get into or follow debates about this, but still...) talk about a newer Superman book and say "meh, this needs more ACTION! More 'Superman smash!'" I think people would be inclined to say "yeah, I've seen enough splash pages of Superman doing some unbelievable fighting, etc., give me an interesting personality/character angle I haven't seen before."

Well, that's the thing, Geoff Johns told essentially the same story in the One Year Later story "Up, Up, and Away". After losing his powers post-Infinite Crisis, Superman has to learn how to be Clark Kent again, and then learn how to be Superman again. Luthor, meanwhile, gets ahold of a piece Kyptonian crystal, and uses it to creates armor and weapons. Big fights ensue, including an intense fist fight between Luthor and a depowered Supes at the end.

Johns even did the superkid better with the Chris Kent/Lor-Zod storyline.

About a few weeks back, I did combine both The Donner Cut and the Lester Cut. Got to say, it was pretty fun.

And, yeah, thats pretty much every reason I still love the film in a nutshell. Again, as someone who's utterly bored by this character 90% of the time (I maintain the 90s Animated Series is still the only example of someone getting it right past 1980), this is the only truly fascinating territory anyone's taken with this character: the relationship between savior, humanity, and the flock in the modern age.

Also, not nearly enough post-hype praise has been sent Kevin Spacey's way. I still love his humbled, prison-tempered Luthor quite a bit.

Spacey certainly had his moments. The Prometheus scene comes to mind. This particular moment reminded me of Rosenbaum's interpretation.

The broadcast version (I guess it could be called the Salkind Cut) has some priceless stuff that isn't in either of those.

Oh, and as hammy as a lot of the theatrical release of Superman II is, it's not 1/10th the abomination that the Richard Donner cut (that was released on DVD) is.

Frankenstein is right. I can't believe they charge people money to own that thing. They should just hand it out on street corners.

Obviously the "Donner Cut" has the disadvantage of being a fan cut of a movie that was never finished.

Oh, I know. I just wish they would've been a little more forthcoming about how unfinished it is. I should've known better, but my god, was I disappointed when I popped that thing in after buying it.

It's interesting getting to see some of the rough ideas that Donner favored, but it's not something you can sit down and watch as a "movie."

It's basically a really good special feature.

Apart from a few slapsticky elements that should have been cut, 'Superman II' is an excellent film. I loved it in the theaters and I loved it when I saw it again a few years ago. Would a COMPLETED Richard Donner version be a good film? Sure, but I don't think that it would necessarily be better than what we got.

No I think after seeing the first SUPERMAN and everything he shot for SUPERMAN II, you have to give Donner the benefit of the doubt. His finished SUPERMAN II would have better.

Donner was royally fucked by the Salkinds. They basically tried to get two movies for the price of one out of him. Even after the first movie was a huge hit they didn't want to pay him his due to finish the second. His version, finished under the proper conditions, would definitely have been better.
Unless he took out the "step outside" line...

It'll be one the great "What if...?" mysteries amongst us nerds. We can never truly know how Superman II would have turned out had Donner not been shit-canned. They had to write a new ending, finish up Zod & Co. taking over the world, etc.

Hell according to them, they were going to get Hackman and Brando back in for more stuff and what not.

One positive thing the "Donner cut" does is debunk the prevailing notion that all the stupid/silly stuff came from Lester. Unless you also subscribe to the rumor that Lester shot quite a bit of the first film as well.

But it's a terrible assemblage. It deletes entire sequences and important plot information purely for the crime of being Lester footage, and makes no narrative sense as a result. An 'outtakes only' compilation like the one on the Blade Runner box set would have been much preferable.

"Whose the writer?"
"Tom Mankiewicz."
"Then it's gonna be shit."

Sean Connery giving career-advice to Reeve while the first two films were being shot. Especially funny after hearing Mankiewicz talking about how Connery loved the Diamonds Are Forever script.

I'm going to make the perfect cut of Superman II, and watch it along with the first movie, Ladyhawke and the Goonies. You're all welcome to come to my Donner Party. There will be plenty of food.

Thank you for that...my Friday has been shitty so far.