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Subtlety

post #1 of 8
9/21/05 at 3:13pm
Thread Starter 
I was thinking about the differences and the smiliarities between the three mediums of Film, Theatre, and Literature, and it got me thinking about how Theatre and Literature often both use a lot of subtlety in their works, but I couldn't think of many recent examples in film. What movies, of the last decade or so, have had an underlying theme or message that you really had to think about, really had to deconstruct the story to figure out? I'm talking characters, story, even simple actions that go long distances in describing a character, without overtly describing that character. Also, why is it so hard to find these films? While artistic may often equal unpopular, one of the great things about subtlety in film is that it can exist in a popular film. Is it just me that can't find these films?
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post #2 of 8
9/21/05 at 4:20pm
Well, this came out more than 10 years ago, but a great example of subtlety is the last shot in North by Northwest.
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post #3 of 8
9/21/05 at 5:52pm
Thread Starter 
That's why I said in the last decade, because over the history of the medium, there are some great examples of subtlety to further ideas, and Hitchcock was great at it. We just don't get the same thing these days, and it's really sad. I see Paul Thomas Anderson using it, and I expected him to be the first person mentioned, but outside of him, and a few others, I'm just not seeing it.
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post #4 of 8
9/21/05 at 6:17pm
What exactly is subtlety? Sounds like intellectual masturbation to me. After all, if a movie is TOO subtle, you can't see the subtely. So maybe The Rock's disjunctive editing had a subtle message of post-modern alienation and chaos, but none of us are smart enough to pick up on it? Likely, if you ask me.

Anyhow, Eyes Wide Shut is one of the most "subtle" movies I've ever seen and it was made about 10 years ago. So there. (And I like that film a lot, so I'm not insulting it. I also love The Rock so I'm not insulting it either.) But let's be honest, the most "sublte" films of all time are probably Warhol's meditations on the nature of boringness, and even I grow tired with that, after a while, and I like just about anything. So maybe it's good that we don't have a sequel to Empire coming out. Maybe we've matured past that.
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post #5 of 8
9/21/05 at 6:31pm
Thread Starter 
I'm not looking for stuff from the masters. Kubrick used shit-tons of subtelty, and while I don't think he's a master filmmaker, Warhol used themes to create ruminations on art, but any idiot can tell you this! I need something more, something deeper in film. Call it what you will, but I wouldn't fault a film for being deep, nor would I fault one for being The Rock. I don't need this in all movies, but I enjoy movies on a number of levels, so while I like having dumb comedies at my disposal, I'd like to have something intelligent to be able to discuss or study as well.
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post #6 of 8
9/21/05 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar
What exactly is subtlety? Sounds like intellectual masturbation to me.
Oh, sweet fucking Christ.
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post #7 of 8
9/21/05 at 7:07pm
If you don't just dismiss it out of hand for being a high seas adventure story, Master and Commander has lots of subtle themes that make it an amazing film. On the surface of course, it's a straightforward adventure story, Captain Aubrey chases French ship, finds it, takes it.

But there's so much more to it than that, and Peter Weir doesn't really draw the sort of attention to it a lot of directors would be forced to. The concept of military service, and subjugating one man to another as a necessity of good order is a constant argument between Crowe and Bettany. Captain Aubrey says "You've come to the wrong shop for anarchy brother", and argues to a lackluster lieutenant that he can't be friends with the enlisted men because they will see him as weak in the end.

There are class issues, issues of courage (the smallest boy on the ship is probably the most courageous in the film), and themes of duty and sacrifice. Subtlety is sort of an abstract concept to debate, but to me it would refer to a movie that has a lot going on under the surface that it really doesn't strain itself to preach to you.

The Edge written by David Mamet is another god example however. On the surface, a "lost in the wilderness" movie about a bear. But it is so much more than that, it is about the struggles between men and human nature. It's not overly showy, but it is definitely there.
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post #8 of 8
9/21/05 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
Exactly what I'm talking about, thank you Stew. See Policar, it's not that hard.
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