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Friends with babies

post #1 of 36
10/2/05 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
I have nothing against kids, honestly. But as a single person who's just turned 30, kids are pretty far from my mindset. Anyway, I went to a birthday brunch today for a friend who turned 34. Now it took all my energy to get out of bed on a Sunday before 11 a.m. and when I arrived, it was like Romper Room. There were at least 15 kids, all under the age of 4, running around and screaming like maniacs. The parents were oblivious or at least pretended to be -- I guess they were just happy to be around other adults -- and I was just overwhelmed by the whole scene. So I retreated to the drink table, downed a mimosa, and tried to engage in converation with my kidless friends, who I find were all engaged in talk about real estate and furniture shopping. I guess I'm at that age when people are busy settling down, but I can't imagine ever being that concerned with finding the perfect sofa to match the coffee table. I'm not saying people should act like teenagers and just get drunk and party all the time, but man, having a 40 minute converstaion about the stools we were sitting on was not my idea of stimulating conversation. Anyway, as I walked home with another friend of mine, she point blankly said, "Once you have kids we'll cease being friends." She didn't mean it maliciously, just matter of factly. She knew that we would just grow apart. I'd hang with other mommies and she would hang with other kidless friends. It made me look back at my other friendships and it was true. Most of my friends that have kids, I only see at special occasions -- birthdays, holidays -- but that's about it. Life's about change and learning to adapt to that change, but its still wierd thinking that the people I hang out with now, might not be the people I hang out with when I'm 40. Anyways, just wanted to share my experience and see what some of the older Chewers have to say about growing up.
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post #2 of 36
10/3/05 at 9:44am
I've been a parent for five years and none of my friends are parents. Maybe this is just because I'm younger. I don't think a person has to completely alter themselves socially to be a parent. In fact it is healthy to retain your own identity and activities. I'm not saying you leave the kid at the airport while you have drinks down the street. But with rational planning and scheduling you can maintain a pretty good social life. And yes this is true for females as well as males. My wife and I share responsibilities pretty evenly. If she wants to go out I have no problem watching the midget(s) and vice versa. It is healthy for kids to see that their parents have friends and their own identity. It makes them more curious about the outside world.


I do miss the days of sleeping in until 11am though.
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post #3 of 36
10/3/05 at 12:29pm
Well, I'll preface this by saying that I'm only 26 and my wife is a young 24. She's about to pop. Any day now. It was weird because 3 years ago, all of our co-workers (who became our friends) had or were having kids. Now it's the opposite. The friends we started hanging out with (because the parents were always too busy with their kids) don't have kids and we're about to have our first. This was a suprise for us (not really), otherwise I'd probably still be going... kids, ehhhh. Now, of course, I'm excited and looking forward to it. We knew we wanted to start a family at some point- I'm where I want to be professionaly, not so much financially (wasbadwithmoney) and well, it's as good a time as any.

I'll try not to be the parent who let's their kid run rampant/throw tantrums everywhere.
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post #4 of 36
10/3/05 at 1:36pm
Children - Little people, that look like you, and don't pay rent.

I waited until 37 (and a 3rd wife) before having my first (now 2 1/2) . We just passed the stage were we had to explain to our single friends, that our time is constrained. It's mostly due to their obliviance at the demands having a child incurs. No, we can no longer come out drinking with a 15 minutes notice. On the other hand, we've made it a point on not being those people who's sole existance and conversational skills revolve around their child. When we do go out, our son is having fun with his grandparents, so we can enjoy actual adult time. There does seem to be a certain mind-set that occurred to some of our friends in which they became incapable of doing or saying anything that didn't involve their children. Not sure why that affects some people, and we actually have phased those people out of our lives, instead of the majority of our single friends. The couples we know who haven't fallen prey to "Parentitis" are still around, and we still will end up having a 1 hour conversation on the merits of "Thomas the Train" vs "Bear in the Big Blue House". That's just a nice change of pace, as there's only so many Red Vs. Blue state conversations you can take in an evening.
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post #5 of 36
10/3/05 at 4:38pm
Getting married and becoming a Parent at a certain age is something that is regionalized I think.

For some reason it seems that "the south" has kids getting married before 20 and becoming parents by their mid 20's. These same kids are also divorced by 30 if that tells you anything.

I may be generalizing but my sister fell in the same trap. Married at 21. First child at 24. Second Child at 32.. Divorced at 33.


In my own personal opinion, you don't really "grow up" until your mid 20's... but again I think its determined by your environment. If you live out in the stixx and there is nothing to do but "get it on" you are probably going to have a baby at an early age.

But watching my sister go through this.. I waited until 26 to get married and my wife and I are having are first child this Christmas.. at age 31. I feel like I should be able to handle the pressures of parenting but I'm still scared as hell.
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post #6 of 36
10/3/05 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neaux
But watching my sister go through this.. I waited until 26 to get married and my wife and I are having are first child this Christmas.. at age 31. I feel like I should be able to handle the pressures of parenting but I'm still scared as hell.
Congrats! and good luck. My wife and I are having number 2 any day now. I am finished with the personal population contributions after this one. Not because I don't enjoy being a parent, but because two is quite enough for me.
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post #7 of 36
10/3/05 at 7:59pm
If you're friends with babies, you need to make new friends.
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post #8 of 36
10/4/05 at 4:17pm
"older Chewers" OK, I guess that's me since I'm 36. Yes, your life will change as you grow older: beliefs will change, your career will change, tastes will change, your income will change, your location will change, your body will change, so will everyone around you --- sometimes all at once! Bottom line is as a result of all this change your friendships can and do change.

I tend to agree that as your friends get married and have kids, you tend to have a lot less in common. Get together conversations usually wind up being kid-centric, it's hard to relate, and hence you lose any desire to hang around them. Or you visit them, or attend a party and it winds up being exactly like you described -- like some kind of Romper Room nightmare of screeching wild kids acting like hooligans. Or you attend an adults only function and you find out it's really, really awkward attending a dinner party and being the only non-married, kid-less person there..LOL! Your friends make new friends-with-kids, and you find new single friends and life goes on.

If you really want something to agonize over, wait a couple more years and try dating in your mid 30's with no kids, and absolutely no desire to have kids -- seems like every woman my age has been married and has kids, or wants to get married and have kids.... tick, tock goes the biological clock....LOL
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post #9 of 36
10/4/05 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the responses everyone. Even yours, Matt! :P

kingcujoI: The friend who's birthday party I was attending is actually really independent. Just as you said, if a group of us wants to go out, she or her husband will stay home with the kids so the other could hang with us. However, I stopped talking to a friend I've known since college after we argued over the independence issue. She said point blank, "my kid is my life. If you don't get that then we can't be friends." I tried to explain that it was possible for her to have a life outside of her kids. Needless to say, we aren't friends anymore.

neaux: Agree location has alot to do with parental attitudes. Living in NYC, there is a large population of Peter Pans who will never grow up. I know people in their 30's and 40's who have no desire to settle down and have kids. The party life is all they know and all they want to know. I'm definitely not that extreme, but I love NYC and can't imagine living anywhere else because there is so much to do and see. I would certainly have to rethink my lifestyle if I ever became a parent, but I wouldn't want to raise my kids anywhere else.

Frylock: Move to NYC. There are plenty of single females with no desire to have children!
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post #10 of 36
10/4/05 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
However, I stopped talking to a friend I've known since college after we argued over the independence issue. She said point blank, "my kid is my life. If you don't get that then we can't be friends." I tried to explain that it was possible for her to have a life outside of her kids. Needless to say, we aren't friends anymore.
You're a moron.
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post #11 of 36
10/4/05 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
You're a moron.
You're a stalker.
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post #12 of 36
10/4/05 at 5:11pm
You are in absolutely no position to inform a parent about how to properly manage child rearing.
Here's a newsflash- Children MUST become a parent's entire life. If this doesn't happen, then the children are ignored and run rampant at brunches, causing stupid single women to drink and complain about poor parenting skills.
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post #13 of 36
10/4/05 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
You're a moron.
To be fair I think they're both morons.
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post #14 of 36
10/4/05 at 5:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
You are in absolutely no position to inform a parent about how to properly manage child rearing.
Here's a newsflash- Children MUST become a parent's entire life. If this doesn't happen, then the children are ignored and run rampant at brunches, causing stupid single women to drink and complain about poor parenting skills.
I never said she should ignore her child. In fact, I didn't say anything about her child. All I asked for was for her to make time for our friendship. I spent almost $300 on planefare to California to visit her despite being a broke college student and she had the nerve to say I was ungrateful because I didn't bring her flowers or some gift for her letting me crash at her place. We just hashed out our grievences, one of which is that I felt like the relationship was one-sided (starting well before she had her daughter). Her response was the one about her daughter being her life and I felt like that was just a lame excuse for treating supposedly best friends like shit. There are many parents in this world who can manage friendships and parenthood. So fuck her, fuck you, and you seriously need to stop stalking me. You appear in every thread I post in just to call me names. It's stupid and childish and just shows that you have an unhealthy obsession with me. If you truly think I'm a moron, then fucking ignore me. No one's forcing you to read my posts. Considered yourself ignored from now on.
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post #15 of 36
10/4/05 at 6:06pm
You stopped talking to her because of her stance on her children. That makes you a moron.

Her life revolves around her chidren causing her to lose friends. That makes her a moron.

Bob Clark has three hundred wives and wears special underwear while fighting hoards of undead. That malkes him a Mormon Stalker.
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post #16 of 36
10/4/05 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Eucalyptus
You stopped talking to her because of her stance on her children. That makes you a moron.
I stopped talking to her because she couldn't or wouldn't fulfill her end of our friendship. The reason for that is irrelevant.
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post #17 of 36
10/4/05 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
Move to NYC. There are plenty of single females with no desire to have children!
And yet with all the single women in NYC, it rates as one of the toughest big cities to meet and hook up with women.
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post #18 of 36
10/4/05 at 6:47pm
I'm putting this fucking thread up for adoption.
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post #19 of 36
10/4/05 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Frylock: Move to NYC. There are plenty of single females with no desire to have children!
Actually, I'm a Brooklyn boy and most of my Dad's side of the family is still there. I love NYC, but I have been in the South too long to go back --- love the big space. How am I going to fit a 90 pound dog and 3 1/2 motorcycles into a NYC apartment..LOL?

But if all my female cousins laments are any indication, NYC is every bit the straight male paradise everyone says. Women are doing the chasing and men are doing the picking.......
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post #20 of 36
10/4/05 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus
And yet with all the single women in NYC, it rates as one of the toughest big cities to meet and hook up with women.
I don't know where you got your stats from, but from real life experience, it ain't that hard to hook up in NYC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frylock
Actually, I'm a Brooklyn boy and most of my Dad's side of the family is still there. I love NYC, but I have been in the South too long to go back --- love the big space. How am I going to fit a 90 pound dog and 3 1/2 motorcycles into a NYC apartment..LOL?

But if all my female cousins laments are any indication, NYC is every bit the straight male paradise everyone says. Women are doing the chasing and men are doing the picking.......
You know what they say, "Location, location, location." I love NYC for its diversity -- food, people, etc. -- but the cramped living conditions are quite the trade off. I'm okay with not having a lot of living space currently as I'm hardly ever home. But later in life, I will certainly relish having a very comfortable place to call home. I'm a cat person, but I agree, NYC is no place for big dog. Motorcycles, though, can fit anywhere!
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post #21 of 36
10/4/05 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus
And yet with all the single women in NYC, it rates as one of the toughest big cities to meet and hook up with women.
Just quit picking your toenails in public.
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post #22 of 36
10/4/05 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
I don't know where you got your stats from, but from real life experience, it ain't that hard to hook up in NYC.
Well, when I move back to NYC, I'm gonna break me off a piece of that fun. ahem.

Actually, I've heard that stat from a few different places, but I don't trust any of them implicitly.
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post #23 of 36
10/5/05 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
In fact, I didn't say anything about her child.... We just hashed out our grievences, one of which is that I felt like the relationship was one-sided (starting well before she had her daughter). Her response was the one about her daughter being her life and I felt like that was just a lame excuse for treating supposedly best friends like shit. .
That's a completely different story than what you implied in your other post.
What you're describing here is just some broken friendship that has nothing to do with your own topic. This raises your status from Offensive Moron to plain old Silly Moron.
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post #24 of 36
10/5/05 at 9:47am
I stopped talking to my wife for a while because she is a parent.

It was peaceful until she brought up that I hadn't filed a pre-nup.
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post #25 of 36
10/7/05 at 5:22pm
I think Diva’s comments are perfectly understandable. One of my childless colleagues at work often laments the loss of several friendships through the arrival of children.

It’s less of a problem with men, who, in the main, do their best to cling on to their former lives and friendships when children arrive (my wife is forever wondering when I'll grow up). Women are usually the ones who have to stay at home assuming the role of primary parent, and their lives, priorities and mindsets are forever changed for the experience.

It must be strange and somewhat saddening to find that a relationship you considered strong and fruitful has disappeared like thin frost in the morning sun after nine hours of labour.
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post #26 of 36
10/7/05 at 5:58pm
I went the opposite way and am 35 and have 2 kids. One is 18 (nearly 19) and the other has just turned 14. When I hit 40 I be free, free I tell you.

Seriously though, it is easy to seperate those lives but you have to be able to utilize a good support system. It was easy for us, as we always lived near out parents which make very handy instant baby sitters. We made the effort to always make time for us. This means when we had the kids they got our full attention instead of getting fucked 7 days a week for years on end. I wouldn't know what we would have done without that one day a week.
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post #27 of 36
10/19/05 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster
I think Diva’s comments are perfectly understandable. One of my childless colleagues at work often laments the loss of several friendships through the arrival of children.

It’s less of a problem with men, who, in the main, do their best to cling on to their former lives and friendships when children arrive (my wife is forever wondering when I'll grow up). Women are usually the ones who have to stay at home assuming the role of primary parent, and their lives, priorities and mindsets are forever changed for the experience.

It must be strange and somewhat saddening to find that a relationship you considered strong and fruitful has disappeared like thin frost in the morning sun after nine hours of labour.

Hanging out with kids...really ain't so bad. They are fantastic fun, creative, smart, and mostly sweet beings. As Geoff said women tend to have the role of primary parent. Something that gets forgotten is that these kids will grow up...and you will still have a life to live...so don't stop doing things for yourself.

As far as friendships go...I think most parents would find it rather offensive to have a single person friend lecture you about how you should be more independent of your kids. Perhaps your role as a friend could be to watch said kids so your friend can go out and enjoy some adult time rather than tell that friend that they are doing something "wrong" and/or to expect that "adult" time be with you.
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post #28 of 36
10/22/05 at 1:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aine_grrr
As far as friendships go...I think most parents would find it rather offensive to have a single person friend lecture you about how you should be more independent of your kids. Perhaps your role as a friend could be to watch said kids so your friend can go out and enjoy some adult time rather than tell that friend that they are doing something "wrong" and/or to expect that "adult" time be with you.
The friend lives in California and I live in New York. Watching her kid would be rather difficult. She begged me to come out and visit her and I spent hundreds of dollars on a plane fare. While I did expect at least one day/half a day/even an hour or so out of the eleven days I was there to have a chance to hang out with her and talk to her about adult things, I never complained while there. It was only after I returned to New York and she said that she thought I was an ungrateful guest because I didn't bring her flowers or some gift for letting me stay at her place that we got into an argument. Her kid was one among many issues we discussed, yet every answer she gave regarding any of the issues revolved around her daughter. I just got tired of her using her daughter as an excuse, so we ended the conversation and neither of us has tried to contact the other since. It's sad, but sometimes you just have to realize you've grown apart and move on.
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post #29 of 36
10/22/05 at 10:27pm
I've got to agree with Diva on this one. If I spend money on a ticket for a cross-country flight and then have that friend expect a 'gift' for putting me up, even though they begged me out... shit would be on.

I could understand buying their dinner a few nights, paying for a few drinks, but calling you out for not getting her a gift, that's just silly.

As for me, I haven't lost any friends because of children. I guess like Geoff Foster said, men do tend to keep friends longer. I know personally I've kept up on several relationships over the years, one friend mentioned that we had 20 good years of knowing each other. To hang on to a good friend for 2/3 of one's life, I would consider that an achievement. I don't know how it is for women, but personally, it wouldn't matter if a friend had children or not. I can adapt easily to a situation, so kids are no problem. I find that they have ideas and thoughts of their own, so it's interesting to get their point of view sometimes.
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post #30 of 36
10/23/05 at 5:36am
This far along and not a mention of "dead babies"?! Blasphemy!
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post #31 of 36
10/24/05 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva
I just got tired of her using her daughter as an excuse, so we ended the conversation and neither of us has tried to contact the other since. It's sad, but sometimes you just have to realize you've grown apart and move on.
I agree for the most part. What she said to you was really lame...no doubt about it. My point was that friendships are not equal...that they ebb and flow with time. Sometimes you are the giver in a relationships and sometimes you are the taker, usually we are somewhere in between, but never equal. Obviously there was a lot of tension between you both and an ending may be appropriate. Sometimes in friendship things get better with time if you realize that your role, at times, may be to simply be there for a person.
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post #32 of 36
10/24/05 at 5:32pm
It's really not that easy for those of us with children, either. You suddenly have nothing in common with those single friends that you used to put amazing amounts of time into.

Just saying, is all.
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post #33 of 36
10/24/05 at 5:55pm
And right you are Kitty. In any event I stand by my idea that they are both being somewhat silly. But to be fair, if neither one of them wants to keep up a cross country friendship then they're not being moronic for not keeping it up, but not to speak over matters like this seems childish.
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post #34 of 36
10/24/05 at 5:56pm
Oh also this friend

Quote:
"Anyway, as I walked home with another friend of mine, she point blankly said, "Once you have kids we'll cease being friends." "
Goa ahead and drop her now. Don't wait.
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post #35 of 36
10/24/05 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyinjammies
It's really not that easy for those of us with children, either. You suddenly have nothing in common with those single friends that you used to put amazing amounts of time into.

Just saying, is all.
The sad truth is that we actually do have a lot in common with each other but the focus shifts by necessity. I think good friends know that relationships are never the same...they are constantly changing...those are the friends you will have for your whole life. It could be the friend you see everyday or the friend that you might not see for years but when you meet again...you know each other despite all the life that has happenned in-between.
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post #36 of 36
10/25/05 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aine_grrr
Sometimes in friendship things get better with time if you realize that your role, at times, may be to simply be there for a person.
The problem with our relationship was that my role was to always to be there for her in bad times, but not the good times. And that wouldn't be so bad because sometimes you just need to have that friend who will commiserate with you no matter what the issue is. But while I was always there for her, she was never there for me. The relationship was lopsided and it just wasn't worth keeping up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittyinjammies
It's really not that easy for those of us with children, either. You suddenly have nothing in common with those single friends that you used to put amazing amounts of time into.

Just saying, is all.
No one is saying that any one is at fault. Sometimes you just grow apart because priorities shift. C'est la vie. For the record, I have plenty of friends with kids that I am still cool with. From my perspective, its because they seem willing to incorporate their kids lives into their own as opposed to making their kids their entire existence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Eucalyptus
Oh also this friend

Goa ahead and drop her now. Don't wait.
Heh. Yeah, she's one of those people that are very opinionated and make grand generalizations. She doesn't want to have kids and certainly would not come to a kid's birthday party and what not. But I have no doubt in my mind that if I ever needed her for anything at all, she would be there -- whether I had a kid or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine_grrr
I think good friends know that relationships are never the same...they are constantly changing...those are the friends you will have for your whole life. It could be the friend you see everyday or the friend that you might not see for years but when you meet again...you know each other despite all the life that has happenned in-between.
I have high school friends who I talk to maybe once every two or three years, but its always as if we just hung out yesterday. I've known these folks for 15 years now and it always amazes me that its been that long.

There are certain friends that I have because we share common interests. There are friends that like socializing whom I go bar hopping with and friends who like hanging out at home and playing cards or watching movies. I have sports friends who'll spend an entire Sunday playing volleyball or softball in the park and others who have no athletic bone in their body and would freak if I suggested any sort of physical activity. As interests change, so do the friendships, but I don't worry about that so much because that's just how life is. Not everyone I meet will be my friend for life. I just appreciate the time we have while it lasts.

If the friendship can transcend the interest that brought us together, it will be all the more stronger. There are several people whom I would have never met if it had not been for my political work, but they are now some of my closest friends. And as a person who doesn't get a long so well with my immediate family, I'm lucky that I have such a great support network via my friends.
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