Freeweights vs. Bodyweight excercises

I was going to write a lengthy response to your question, but I'm gonna keep it simple based on my experience. The "functional strength" route is the way to go for most guys. It'll build all the strength you need in the right places to apply it to everyday physical stress situations. Weights can help enhance areas where you're particularly weak...my weak area is my chest. Dumbbell flyes helped that.

By the way, I'm 42 and used to be in the military. You CAN wear you ass out and get in the best shape of your life using body weight exercises and cardio with weight training to shore up any weak spots.

Here's a link with lot's of interesting stuff about functional strength training. This guy seems to know what he's talking about. Note that his routines are not strictly body weight exercises...he use weights but in different ways from what you may have seen before.

http://www.trainforstrength.com/

Like Matt Furey, he sells training materials but you don't have to buy anything to use his routines, which he lays out on the site. Good luck!

One of my neighbors is friends with Furey, as he helped him create the "storefront" for his site. And he is definitely for real. Not just some big guy that happened upon this and is now shilling it--he does it, and pushes it big time. He even has had his kid doing the exercises since he was old enough to walk. Can't speak for whether it's all good, but I know Furey is no snake oil salesman. He definitely stands behind what you see and what he sells.

Depends on what you're trying to do, and you should definitely integrate both into your routine if you want to be well-rounded.

I'm essentially a powerlifter, so I do almost completely weight-training exercises. Lots of Bench presses, squats, barbell curls, close-grip bench presses, and rows. Except for dips, calf raises, and the occasional set of pull-ups (and sit-ups) I don't really do any body-weight exercises.

As I am going for muscle mass, I can tell you that weight-training is the way to go. However, you must be careful, because it is very easy with isolation exercises to neglect muscle groups. This leads to poor muscle balance and while you may appear strong, your neglect of certain areas of your body will be a severe detriment to playing sports or being fit.

Unless you are a genetic freak (which you may be...who knows) like Herschel Walker you will never reach your full muscle potential with body-weight exercises. But you will likely be fitter, leaner, and in better cardiovascular shape than someone who does weight-training only without any body-weight or aerobic exercise. Beware of taking any fitness advice from people who are obviously genetically gifted or incredibly dedicated, they can often lead you astray. Everybody's body reacts different.

Plus, body-weight training is much easier on your body, so as you age you have to mix in more.

**I don't know what a "hindi" push-up is. Please post a description so that I can try it. Since I can benchpress well over 400 pounds, I am very curious as to what variation of a push-up I won't be able to do 25 times. I will post my success or failure.

I believe a Hindi pushup is a curry-flavored ice cream novelty. Sometimes they have the Flintstones on the packaging.

Sounds like a trick hookers know. "Wanna party? $50 to go around the world, $75 for a Hindi Pushup."

I'm gonna second theslik1 on this--think that Furey's stuff is great. I went on two long periods of being obsessed with bodyweight exercises when I was in the Marines. That got me in the best shape that I've ever been in. I was doing a lot of martial arts too, and I found that it really helped my strength, speed and coordination. I think that working out with weights is good too, and its a great social thing. But if you're pressed for time, you can really accomplish a lot with his exercises. I like his emphasis on sprinting too, especially hill sprints. And it might just be me or my technique, but I never have any injuries when I'm regularly doing a bodyweight-only workout; in the gym, I wind up with a sore shoulder every now and then.

I gave a copy of his book to my nephew before he joined the Navy, and it helped him a lot--he sailed through boot camp PT. This winter, I'm going to start doing his basic workout with my daughter to help her get in shape for field hockey.

I looked at his first workout. It doesn't look easy. My wrist doesn't appreciate a lot of pushups, though.

I like my weights and my bike, and I'm not obsessive about being at the peak of physical perfection, but I might try these for a month or so sometime.

I think that it's pretty popular with the less orthodox martial arts schools. If you're doing aikido or something like that, they have a set series of warmups and exercises, so I think that it's less likely that you'll see anyone doing it (but I could be wrong). Lots of guys that I used to work out with in JKD liked his exercises. I have a buddy that trains at one of the Straightblast Gyms, and it's pretty popular there too.

Also, if someone is trying to figure out how to do hindu pushups, they're sometimes called "dive bombers." I haven't looked in a while, but there used to be demo photos on Furey's website.

There's a small difference between a Hindu pushup and what's usually called a "dive-bomber". The main difference being that your arms remain extended and you pivot with your shoulders back to the start position for the Hindu. The dive-bomber has you press back up with your arms more like a regular pushup. Scapper has a vid demonstrating dive-bombers on his site; you can clearly see the difference in technique. I don't argue which one is better...I've used 'em both and prefer the Hindu with dive-bombers thrown in to keep things mixed up.

By the way, I'm not against weight training at all especially for younger guys. I just think a balanced approach works best for most of us. As stated earlier, there are always "freaks" out there who can get huge with relatively little effort.

I gave up weights specifically due to a herniated disk that finally required surgery, so I stick to bodyweight workouts and cardio now. That routine works just fine for an old married guy.

In my experience, people who are able to integrate exercise into their daily lives, if only for a few minutes at a time, tend to stay healthier longer than people who need to go out of their to exercise by going to gyms. It's easier for something to disrupt your gym routine than your daily dozen. In addition to bodyweight exercises, I suggest getting in the habit of parking a couple of blocks from your desired destination as a way to get more walking in your life. Also, it never hurts to take the stairs instead of the elevator.

So, who the hell am I to give advice? I'm 37 years old, routinely max the pushup & ab crunch portion of the military fitness test, and have a resting heart rate of 57 bpm. I used to max the swim, as well, but then they raised the standards, those rat bastards!

There is a lot of discussion over what it means to be "fit" or "strong." I read an article on a bodybulding site a while back that; the author was a bodybuilder, ripped to shreads, and strng as an ox. As part of his routine, he did some joggin on the beach, early in the morning. While he was there, he saw an older gentleman who seemed to run for hours at a time. Now, there was no way that this guy was anywhere as strong as the author, but there was also no way that the author was as fast, or had the endurance, of the runner. This got him to thinking: "who really is the 'best shape?'" It isn't a question that can be easily answered. I supose what it comes down to is "what do you need to do?"

Anyhow, there are some pretty impressive things you can do with bodyweight exercises, but there are also things that you will never accomplish without freeweights or machines. I may not be able to knock out 25 Hindu pushups (I bench 300), but there is also almost no way that a guy who only trains with pushups is going to bench 300. It's a specialized movement; if you want to get good at Hindu pushups, do Hindu pushups, if you want to get good at bench press, do bench press.

So, what do you want to get good at? This comes down to goals. In general, bodyweight exercises are good for toning, low-weight, high-rep freewights are also good for toning, and high-weight, low-rep exercises are good for building mass.

Another factor is the difference between endurance and single-rep max. You can train to do 25 Hindu pushups, or you can train to bench press 150 pounds 25 times, and your body will adapt. There comes a point, however, where bodyweight exercises will cease to be effective in building strength, because you cannot easily add resistance. With freeweights, you can choose to go for endurance (low-weight, high-rep) OR raw power (height-weight, low-rep).

One of the advantages of bodyweight exercises, though, is utility. You can do them pretty much anywhere, anytime. Pavel makes an excellent case for this in the book The Naked Warrior. He also does things with kettle bells that ought to be illegal. You can apparantly achieve some impressive results with one-armed pushups, one-legged squats, and chin-ups.

As an aside, it is generally easier to go from endurance exercises to strength exercises than vise-versa. I was a distance runner in high school, and it helped my sprints immensly. Simmilarly, when I'm training lower-weight, higher reps, I find my strength tends to come along fairly nicely, but when I'm in a high-weight, low-rep phase, my endurance falls off quickly. That is to say, if I spend a month benching 250 for ten, I can quickly get back to 300 for one, but after a month of doing 250 for five, 270 for three, and singles up to 300, it will take me a couple of weeks to get back to repping 250 for ten.

There is a correlation, but there is a more direct way of going about it. If you do a lot of pushups, your chest will grow, and that will allow you to bench press more weight. Your body will adapt to the kind of pressure you apply to it, however. If you're going crazy with the pushups, your body will say "darn, I'm doing a lot of pushups, I need to up my endurance." Strength will come as a result, but not as quickly, or in the quantity, as if you did heavy weight exercises that made your body say "darn, I'm moving alot of weight, I better increase my power." Like I said before, though, it's easier to go from endurance to power than from power to endurance. Pushups are probably a good base for bench press, but bench press (height weight, low rep) are probably a poor basis for pushups.

I'm going to assume your a fairly big guy, if you're benching 250. When I've had to lay off for a while, or when I just stop working out, 250 seems to be my "magic number;" I can get back to benching 250 in a fairly short time. Getting past that point, though, takes a lot of work. 250 seems to be what my body is naturally designed to do, and it doesn't take much to get it performing at that level. I would imagine, though I can't say for sure, that something similar is true for you... the pushups helped you get to your body's "natural peak." To get much beyond that, though, up and over 300 pounds, you would have had to do resistance training.

Also, if you're a big guy, there is probably a lot of weight on your arms when you're doing a pushup. I'm clocking in at 250 right now, so when I do a pushup, I'm probably moving more weight than some of my friends can bench, especially when you get into the wierd variations, like feet in the air, etc.

Diet does play a big part in it. I'm built like a tank, but I eat too much and run too little, so it's a tank with padding. The body also processes some things differently... it takes less energy for the body to store fat than to convert carbs to fat and then store it, for example. A simmilar thing is true for whole-wheat vs. processed.

I'm working on cutting up now, which I hate. The bodybuilders are crazy about this stuff... they have it down to the hour regarding when to take your protine supplement, when to take your carbs, what percentages these should come in... it isn't a meal, it's a science experiment.

Strength is a fairly easy item to measure. Compare one rep maximums in an isolation weight exercise, and you can tell which individual's muscle group is capable of generating more force. I've always believed that isolation strength training is a must to increase muscle mass. Without weight training your body will inevitably plateau no matter how manybody-weight exercises such as bar dips, pullups, or pushups you do. You will get more fit, but won't reach your potential in terms of generating additional muscle force.

Thomas, if you think 250 is a plateau, just keep with it. I was stuck in the 355-385 range for almost a year. It was only when I dumped the high-rep exercises for basically all of my upper body muscle groups and focused on fewer reps at higher weight that I began to improve again.

Lately I've been trying to hit 450 for what seems like two or three years.

Alright, I was about to start a thread, but I figure it'll be best to just ask in here.

I've recently started doing a combination of freeweight and bodyweight exercises. (Actually, I started doing some things a couple years ago but I fell into a bit of a depression and couldn't motivate myself to keep it up or do much else so I'm really kind of picking up where I left off.) I've cut back on junk/fast food almost entirely, the same goes for soda-I drink a lot more juice and water now, started taking multi-vitamins and fish-oil, and have gotten back into the full-swing of Tae Kwon Do training. I've gotten plenty of help from my instructor but I figure I might as well see what else I can scrounge up from other people. Can anyone recommend any type of supplement or maybe even a weight gainer? Hell, whether or not I should bother with any supplements other than what I have been taking? Anyone know any good recipe books? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mostly to build strength, but also to get a bit bigger and gain some definition(I'm somewhat scrawny/wirey/whatever).

250 is my common sticking point. I blew past it a while ago, hit 300, got hurt, took a month off, got stuck at 250 again, pushed past it... wash, rinse, repeate.

Also, I saw a guy closr-gripping 270 this afternoon. Made me feel like a girlie-man. His hands weren't toucing or anything, but still...

Creatine and protine are pretty much the only things that have been show to make any real difference. Bodybuilders recommoned around 2 grams of protine per pound of bodyweight, daily, so if you weight 180 pounds, you should be getting 360 grams of protine.

Make sure you get some protine within a half-hour after working out. That will tell your body that it isn't going to starve, and will help convince it to anabolize. Also, take some protine eithe right before you go to bed, or in the middle of the night, to give it some extra fule to play with while it's doing the rest and repaire thing.

That's weak sauce! My all-time close grip (about eight inches apart) is 385. It's a great mass-builder.

If there's one thing you learn about weight-lifting, it's this: there is always someone stronger. I used to work out with guys that could muscle up well over 500 pounds benchpressing, and it was depressing.

I haven't tried the pushups out yet, will do so this week.

I dig those Hindu pushups, but they aren't nearly as hard as Furey makes them out to be. I just did 20 pretty easily, and I'm in good but not great shape.

You know the etched ring around the center of the bar? This guy had his hands on the ends of that, which would put his hands at... I'm going to say 5 inches. Still... 385... yikes.

Anyhow, when you say mass-builder, do you consider this a chest exercise, or a triceps exercise?

I'm pretty sure what they say is 2 grams of protein per KILOGRAM of bodyweight, so if you weight 190 lbs (as I do), you'd want to take in approximately 180 grams of protein. Anyone with more experience want to clarify?

25 hindu pushups were no problem, but they really hurt my back. I should have stretched first.

Close-grip is more of a tricep exercise if you do it right, and I cannot emphasize enough how important form is for close gripping. Keep your elbows tucked in more than you would for a bench press, and don't bounce the bar (also important for benching, but even more important for close grip). How wide you should put your hands varies, the broader your shoulders the wider your grip HAS to be to avoid bending your wrists at an unnatural angle. It should be just wide enough that your wrists aren't flexing in a painful fashion.

Most of your upper arm is tricep, so if you want to have a huge arm, you need to do weighted bar dips and/or close grips benchpresses. Typically people who are moderately strong at bench press (225-275) are not training their triceps properly, and they are topping out. Their weak triceps are holding back their stronger chest and shoulder muscles. Then, when they start doing close grip, the disparity between their bench and close grip is enormous. As their close grip improves, their bench press skyrockets, at least in my experience.

I always tell people that the best way to improve their shoulders and chest if they find they are plateauing is not by doing more reps/sets of military press or bench press, but by doing more streneous triceps work-outs.

The FDA's daily recommended whatchamagigger is 0.36 grams per pound. For people who engage in regular exercies, something more like 0.8 grams / pound is necessary. If you're trying to bulk up, though, like a powerlifter or a bodybuilder, you need to go even further... 1.5 - 2.0 grams per pound of bodyweight.

Well, that'd be my problem. I do these with my hands touching, and can only get up about half of my normal bench press weight. I figured out the elbows-in thing on my own, but only because shoulder problems make me do it that way.

yeah, I've definatly seen this. It was very frustrating to me, when first coming back, that my arms always died before my pecs when I was doing a chest routine. There's still some disparity, to be honest, though I've finally gotten to the point where my chest will actually be sore when I get finished.

Thanks for the tips. I think I'll add close-grip press back into my arm routine.

That's 400 grams of protein for a 200lbs. person. Yikes.

For example, one egg (large) has about 7 grams of protein. So, get ready to eat almost five dozen a day. Alternatively, you could eat four one-pound steaks. I don't buy it.

Muscle and Fitness agrees, apparently: 1 gram per pound. (look under "powerlifter" or "hardgainer")

But hey, enjoy those steaks...

The 2g/pound I quoted you was for a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter. The difference is fairly large: a powerlifter is concerned primarily with makeing his muscles act in a more efficient manner, e.g. recruiting as many muscle fibers as possible into a particular movement. Growth, while a natural side effect, is secondary. The bodybuilder, on the other hand, is concerned with makeing his muscles grow as large as possible. This requires massive ammounts of protine, because protine is what muscle is made of. You can't build a wall without cement, as it were.

And, yeah, that is a lot of protine to take in - and I'm a vegitarian, which makes it even harder. I am for a little below 1g/pound a day, and I need to use supplements to get there, and in general be very careful about where I'm getting my calories from. I'll generally make myself a protine shake in the morning: 3 scoops of whey protine, 1 scoop of creatine, mixed with orange juice. This gives me roughly 60 grams of protine. The rest comes from more traditional meals, and an occasional protine bar.

On the other hand, I'm trying to loose weight and tone up, not bulk up. Bodybuilders tend to eat more of everything; their fat intake will tend to be a lot higher than mine, too, but they've got enough muscle to burn it off. Jerks.

I guess it comes down to what you want to do, and how badly you want to accomplish it. For a while, I was aiming for 1.5 - 2 grams per pound, and consuming nothing but protine shakes, protine bars, and multivitimines. Eating was never fun anymore, and I found that I just couldn't stick with it. I'm abit more relaxed about it now, and while I might not be making gains as quickly, I think I can maintin this lifestyle for the long haul.

I used to hit the gym and lift weights when I was in high school. I was a pretty big guy, but I was still a fatty. I thought I was strong, until I joined the Marines. Yeah, nothing like getting completely broken down. The funny thing is, once I got out of Boot, I was in the best shape of my life, and we didn't use traditional weights. It was strange because I lost close to 80 pounds, but I was stronger than I ever was when I was lifting weights. I guess it really does depend on personal body type and such, but from my experience, using bodyweight was more effective for me.