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Fox News says don't get an XBOX

post #1 of 83
11/17/05 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175860,00.html

I didn't know the 360 couldn't play 50 cent's bulletproof. Now that I know that I want the 360 how about you guys.

Honestly, I wonder how much the competion payed for this news story.
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post #2 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:02pm
All stuff that gamers already know, but it's a point of view that bears repeating to the average consumer.
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post #3 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:03pm
Quote:
But those who buy the lower-cost version are in for a surprise — they won't be able to play any of the Xbox games they already own.
Unless they play them on the Xbox they already own, of course. You couldn't play any NES games on the SNES, but nobody bitched about it back then.
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post #4 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:05pm
Hasn't Rupert Murdoch had a beef with Microsoft for some time now? I know he's trying to buy up gaming interests all over the place...

Anyway, that 'article' is pretty lame. "Don't buy a new console now, wait a year, it might be cheaper and there might be competition and more choice." Well, duh. You could say that about virtually any purchase.
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post #5 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
Unless they play them on the Xbox they already own, of course. You couldn't play any NES games on the SNES, but nobody bitched about it back then.
Having spent last weekend in a couple of GameStop stores interviewing people about their 360 plans for Yahoo, I was surprised to find how many people still don't really get how backwards compatibility works. I'm talking about parents buying for kids -- not relatively serious gamers -- who think that because 'game X' is for the Xbox it should automatically play on the 360. Start talking about the hard drive and real confusion ensues. Strange but true.
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post #6 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainstream Media Ignoramus
All that for a machine that won't play the hot games this season, like "Star Wars: Battlefront II" and "50 Cent: Bulletproof."
Yeah, every gaming website I visit is all a-flutter with talk about that HOTT new 50 Cent game. It's gonna be bigger than Halo 2 and Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy 12 COMBINED!
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post #7 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:11pm
Video game snobs are so weird.
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post #8 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:12pm
More true stories from Atlanta game stores: the only game I heard people ask about more than Madden 360 was Fitty's.

Believe it or not, a lot of the people who buy games don't actually read game websites.
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post #9 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Video game snobs are so weird.
Eh, go read a superhero comic.
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post #10 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Fischer
Believe it or not, a lot of the people who buy games don't actually read game websites.
Thus the huge sales numbers of The Sims.
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post #11 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:15pm
I agree with the article somewhat, but it should of course, be said for any new system. Waiting a year is always a good Idea. Not only price, but the first wave of consoles suck ass. You gotta wait at least a year before they detect and and fix all the software problems. Remember PS2? It also brings up the good point of the new systems coming out next year will trigger a price war. How pissed will you be when you see X-box 360 on sale for $150 dollars less than what you paid.
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post #12 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcruise
How pissed will you be when you see X-box 360 on sale for $150 dollars less than what you paid.
Not at all, I've been playing games plenty long enough to know that if you want the shit early, you're going to pay for it. I certainly don't have loads of cash to toss around, but $150 spread over the course of probably a year before we see a price drop isn't that bad.
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post #13 of 83
11/17/05 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
Yeah, every gaming website I visit is all a-flutter with talk about that HOTT new 50 Cent game. It's gonna be bigger than Halo 2 and Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy 12 COMBINED!
Maybe not that big, but it will be massive.
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post #14 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Fischer
Having spent last weekend in a couple of GameStop stores interviewing people about their 360 plans for Yahoo, I was surprised to find how many people still don't really get how backwards compatibility works. I'm talking about parents buying for kids -- not relatively serious gamers -- who think that because 'game X' is for the Xbox it should automatically play on the 360. Start talking about the hard drive and real confusion ensues. Strange but true.
And if Microsoft was marketing the 360 as being able to play every Xbox game ever, then the article might have a point. But they're not. It's up to the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase like this - and the information is hardly being kept secret.
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post #15 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:09pm
Quote:
To get the full Xbox 360 experience, you need to spend hundreds — perhaps thousands — of dollars.
Am I the only one who imagined Kent Brockman reading those lines?

And what's up with shilling the Warriors twice? Can you dig it?
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post #16 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:15pm
Yeah, I'm wondering where the "thousands" of dollars comes in. All the peripherals together wouldn't push it over the one grand mark, let alone thousands plural.

I mean, you have to buy the games I suppose, but that's like saying a DVD player could cost you thousands if you want the "full experience" of watching more than one movie.
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post #17 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
And if Microsoft was marketing the 360 as being able to play every Xbox game ever, then the article might have a point. But they're not. It's up to the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase like this - and the information is hardly being kept secret.
Hardly secret, but hardly clear, either. It is backwards compatible! Wait, maybe it's not! OK, it is, but for some games! These are the games that will be supported. Your favorites might not be on the list now, or ever.

I haven't looked at the core system packaging, but I doubt it mentions that the configuration isn't BC out of the box. Maybe in small print? From what I've seen, MS hasn't marketed the 360 as anything other than backwards compatible -- without reading game or tech websites, I'm not sure that the average buyer would know the deal.

Consumers should educate themselves, yes, but manufacturers should also be more up front about what a product can do. Based on the amount of confusion I've seen re: the 360, I don't think MS has been.


EDITED TO ADD: The 'thousands' in the article is referring to the need to buy an HD set to get the full experience.
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post #18 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:19pm
So where does the PS3 stand on backwards compatibility?
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post #19 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:21pm
Thread Starter 
The thousands of dollars comes from the idea that if you want to play a 360 game you must have HDTV.

So must ask, has anyone seen a important difference between HDTV and regular TV? Or is more of "its looks better on HDTV, but your not missing much"
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post #20 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desslar
So where does the PS3 stand on backwards compatibility?
The PS3 will play PS1 and PS2 games (at least until those DREs appear). No need to download a patch or anything.
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post #21 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
Yeah, I'm wondering where the "thousands" of dollars comes in. All the peripherals together wouldn't push it over the one grand mark, let alone thousands plural.

I mean, you have to buy the games I suppose, but that's like saying a DVD player could cost you thousands if you want the "full experience" of watching more than one movie.
I think they mean the HDTV you would "have" to buy to get the full effect of the system.

*edit- D'oh, DerekT beat me to it.
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post #22 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:25pm
As a matter of fact I don't think the ads for the 360 or the actual box the system comes in will mention anything about compatibility with the old Xbox. Microsoft is not selling this as Xbox 1.5, it's selling it as a brand new system.

And as Dan said, I don't remember anyone bitching when SNES turned out not to be compatible with NES. As a matter of fact, I don't remember anyone raising the issue at all.

And there was certainly no uproar about Gamecube abandoning cartridges and backwards compatibility for those kiddy DVDs. No cries of "Nintendough".
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post #23 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
And if Microsoft was marketing the 360 as being able to play every Xbox game ever, then the article might have a point. But they're not. It's up to the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase like this - and the information is hardly being kept secret.
The article is educating the consumer.
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post #24 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:29pm
They're probably just including HDTVs in that remark.

I found more amusing the Xbox Live comment. "You'll need to spend nearly $600!" I'm still not sure how they arrived at that crazy number. A router and what else exactly?

A pretty worthless article overall. They neglected to mention the one big drawback of the system (lack of next-gen dvd), perhaps because even they realize the difficulty of slamming HDTV costs one second and then praising the disc format designed for them the next. Otherwise the reasons listed are so mindnumbing and generic. Seriously, "only 19 games available at launch"? Maybe I missed the launches where two hundred games were released on day one.
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post #25 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastronikolas
As a matter of fact I don't think the ads for the 360 or the actual box the system comes in will mention anything about compatibility with the old Xbox. Microsoft is not selling this as Xbox 1.5, it's selling it as a brand new system.

And as Dan said, I don't remember anyone bitching when SNES turned out not to be compatible with NES. As a matter of fact, I don't remember anyone raising the issue at all.

And there was certainly no uproar about Gamecube abandoning cartridges and backwards compatibility for those kiddy DVDs. No cries of "Nintendough".
I think there is a bit of adifference between the NES and XBOX.

First off there was no such thing as backwards compatibility, so even if there was bitching there really wasn't too much you could do about it. I believe Sega first the idea of bc an issue then Sony did as well.

On the second point about Gamecube abandoning cartridges. It was probably a "thank god they are finally using disks" situation. The truth of the matter is that cartridges are just too costly as compaired to CD/DVD (despite the speed advantage a cartridge has). It was their use of cartridges that allowed the PS to win the console war in the first place because third parties didn't want to use carts.
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post #26 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
The PS3 will play PS1 and PS2 games (at least until those DREs appear). No need to download a patch or anything.
Not even the people at Sony know if that will be true when the machine is released. That's the intent, but it was the intent of MS for the 360 to be fully backwards compatible.

People might not have complained that the SNES wasn't BC, but I bet there were some articles like this one pointing out that playing old NES games on the new machine wasn't an option.

And until the DS/Micro, Nintendo was great about keeping BC with GameBoy games.
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post #27 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:32pm
You guys do realize that this is for regular people, right? Not game nerds? Regular people don't understand that there will be 19 games at launch. They don't remember the last launch. It isn't important to them. They think that there will be a number of games to choose from at the store. They may not understand that an XBox game is different from an XBox 360 game. Most of these people just have Christmas lists from their kids and don't really know what the heck they're doing.
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post #28 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Fischer
Not even the people at Sony know if that will be true when the machine is released. That's the intent, but it was the intent of MS for the 360 to be fully backwards compatible.

People might not have complained that the SNES wasn't BC, but I bet there were some articles like this one pointing out that playing old NES games on the new machine wasn't an option.

And until the DS/Micro, Nintendo was great about keeping BC with GameBoy games.
Actually Sony does know their games will be backwards compatible. The reason is because Sony basicly pays for the old hardware to be on the system. The reason why XBOX is not BC is because they changed graphics hardware between the 2 systems. In reality XBOX is using more of emulation than actually being BC.

Sony did a pretty good BC job the first time, so I don't see why they won't know about it until the PS3 comes out?
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post #29 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:37pm
All that's true, Dev, but if rumors of shortages are true only people who have pre-orders or stand in line at Wal-Mart release day (see: game nerds) will be getting a 360 before Christmas anyway. The average consumer needs to store this article in memory until January.
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post #30 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:37pm
That's why a responsible journalist should try and educate the regular people.

Telling them that despite the fact that Microsoft is planning to release over 200 games there will be only 19 availble at launch isn't education. It's sensationalism. And a lie.
Telling them that all new systems get a handful of games at launch and gradually build up libraries of games is education.

Telling them that it's not 100% bacwards compatible is education. Making it a reason not to buy a system is not.

I can't see how the advice to buy an Xbox and a PS2 and a Gamecube, instead of a 360 is good, responsible advice.

This is a terribly written article, full of misinformation and perhaps serving an agenda.
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post #31 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
The PS3 will play PS1 and PS2 games (at least until those DREs appear). No need to download a patch or anything.
I'm not sure this is true. The last rumor floating around was that the PS3 would have the same limited BC as the 360.

People seem to have gotten spoiled about backwards compatibility. If I remember correctly, the only reason the PS2 could play all PS1 games was due to having the PS1's chipset actually included in the PS2. That's not going to happen with future systems.

So if we consider the huge number of PS1/PS2 games on the market, and the fact they'll all need to be emulated, AND the fact (if MS is to be believed regarding their list) that they need final hardware to certify backwards compatibility....how in the world could the PS3 have complete backwards compatibility?

Sony would need to finalize the hardware, then wait months while the BC team got to work on emulation, before finally going into production. And that's even IF the thing comes with a HDD, which I've heard it doesn't.
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post #32 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastronikolas
That's why a responsible journalist should try and educate the regular people.

Telling them that despite the fact that Microsoft is planning to release over 200 games there will be only 19 availble at launch isn't education. It's sensationalism. And a lie.
Telling them that all new systems get a handful of games at launch and gradually build up libraries of games is education.

Telling them that it's not 100% bacwards compatible is education. Making it a reason not to buy a system is not.

I can't see how the advice to buy an Xbox and a PS2 and a Gamecube, instead of a 360 is good, responsible advice.

This is a terribly written article, full of misinformation and perhaps serving an agenda.
You forgot to mention telling them "you shouldn't buy an sytem because it doesn't have x hot game on it" isn't good either. I mean when the PS3 comes out will I hear how "you shouldn't get a PS3, you can't play Halo 3 or
Super Smash Bros. on it"
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post #33 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
You guys do realize that this is for regular people, right? Not game nerds? Regular people don't understand that there will be 19 games at launch. They don't remember the last launch. It isn't important to them. They think that there will be a number of games to choose from at the store. They may not understand that an XBox game is different from an XBox 360 game. Most of these people just have Christmas lists from their kids and don't really know what the heck they're doing.
Yeah, I agree. I imagine average Joe consumer/soccer mom has no idea what he/she is getting into with the 360 options. On the same note, those same people are probably really confused with the GBA, GBA:SP, GBA:Micro, and DS choices as well.
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post #34 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
Actually Sony does know their games will be backwards compatible. The reason is because Sony basicly pays for the old hardware to be on the system. The reason why XBOX is not BC is because they changed graphics hardware between the 2 systems. In reality XBOX is using more of emulation than actually being BC.

Sony did a pretty good BC job the first time, so I don't see why they won't know about it until the PS3 comes out?
http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/arc...ibility_i.html

"However, it was Sakamoto's comments regarding the PS3 that made the most headlines. When responding to questions about whether the SCPH-75000's backward-compatibility issues heralded similar problems with Sony's next-gen console, she demurred. "It's hard to say the PlayStation 3 will be 100 percent backwards compatible, but as we said earlier this year, we aim to make it so as much as possible," Sakamoto said, according to IDG. Attempts to elicit clarifying comments from Sony Computer Entertainment America reps were unsuccessful as of press time."
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post #35 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
Actually Sony does know their games will be backwards compatible. The reason is because Sony basicly pays for the old hardware to be on the system. The reason why XBOX is not BC is because they changed graphics hardware between the 2 systems. In reality XBOX is using more of emulation than actually being BC.

Sony did a pretty good BC job the first time, so I don't see why they won't know about it until the PS3 comes out?
Sony and Microsoft both switched GPU manufacturers from the last generation. Microsoft went fron nVidia to ATI, and Sony went from ATI to nVidia, iirc.

I have no idea how the deal on the PS1 chipset worked out, but if swapping graphic chipsets is the reason Microsoft had to go with emulation, then the same should be true of the PS3.
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post #36 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTwist
I'm not sure this is true. The last rumor floating around was that the PS3 would have the same limited BC as the 360.

People seem to have gotten spoiled about backwards compatibility. If I remember correctly, the only reason the PS2 could play all PS1 games was due to having the PS1's chipset actually included in the PS2. That's not going to happen with future systems.

So if we consider the huge number of PS1/PS2 games on the market, and the fact they'll all need to be emulated, AND the fact (if MS is to be believed regarding their list) that they need final hardware to certify backwards compatibility....how in the world could the PS3 have complete backwards compatibility?

Sony would need to finalize the hardware, then wait months while the BC team got to work on emulation, before finally going into production. And that's even IF the thing comes with a HDD, which I've heard it doesn't.
I want to know where you heard that rumor. Because I haven't heard that one. I have heard how the PS3 is going to be $600 dollars, I have heard that it will not allow you to play a game on any system other than the first one, I have heard that every 3rd party is leaving for Revolution and XBOX, but thats a new one.

Edited to add: just read your post above me (wow lost of quick posts on this thread). Ok I see where your going, I believe though Sony said they will pay the old manufactures for the BC. I may be wrong on this or its just an rumor I heard. Its just surprising becuase I've heard almost no mention of limited BC for Sony til now.
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post #37 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:46pm
I think Russ is correct in saying that PS3 backwards compatibility is a real thorny issue and Sony doesn't have a tested and certified solution yet... as far as we know. On the other hand Sony's situation is different from Microsoft's. They don't have proprietary third-party hardware (the nVidia GPU) to emulate. They can build emulation into the PS3 anyway they want to, up to including hardware emulation (essentially recycling the guts of the PS2 inside the machine, similar to how PS1 emulation was handled). Also they don't have the thorny hard-drive issue to work around.
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post #38 of 83
11/17/05 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sphinx
All that's true, Dev, but if rumors of shortages are true only people who have pre-orders or stand in line at Wal-Mart release day (see: game nerds) will be getting a 360 before Christmas anyway.
Add to that list any parent whose kid wants one.
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post #39 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sphinx
All that's true, Dev, but if rumors of shortages are true only people who have pre-orders or stand in line at Wal-Mart release day (see: game nerds) will be getting a 360 before Christmas anyway.
Well, it also disregards the facts a bit. I could buy that your average parent won't know the score, but where do those christmas lists come from? The kids asking for these systems definitely know about past launches.

It's a very weak excuse for panning the system, even before you factor in the shockingly rational reminder that Microsoft Ninjas don't come and steal your Xbox1 if you buy the 360.
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post #40 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Video game snobs are so weird.
Heh. Pretty much.

Other than the fact that I simply don't really play video games anymore (except Call of Duty online), I won't get an Xbox 360 because it basically has the functionality and processing power of a high end PC. The problem with that is, I have a high end PC. I don't need another one putting a $400 hole in my wallet.

If I do get a next gen console, it will be either the PS3 or the Revolution. And I will have to be employed by then, because I have better things to do with my money while unemployed.
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post #41 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:08pm
The kids know about past launches?

Why do nerd subcultures always assume that they're actually quite big? I am sure that most kids just play games and don't read magazines or websites about them.
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post #42 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
The kids know about past launches?

Why do nerd subcultures always assume that they're actually quite big? I am sure that most kids just play games and don't read magazines or websites about them.

Why do you assume anyone informed is part of a "subculture"? Kids didn't just spring into existence for the 360 launch. The internet makes it pretty damn hard to not find information these days. I know, it's a stretch, a kid who plays video games going to a video game website...
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post #43 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
The kids know about past launches?

Why do nerd subcultures always assume that they're actually quite big? I am sure that most kids just play games and don't read magazines or websites about them.
Trust me I heard people complain "why can't the 360 have the same type of good games that PS2 had at launch".

They either don't know or don't remember the past launches.
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post #44 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:24pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, now its getting stupid. CNN has got in on the act too.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/17/comm...ming/index.htm

This article seems a little more grounded in facts (no complaints you can't play bulletproof this time)
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post #45 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:33pm
I just don't like how the article is bluntly titled DONT BUY THE XBOX 360. And I don't know about anyone else, but when I was a kid I would regularly read EGM magazine to stay up-to-date in terms of what is good and what isn't, and that was back when SNES launched, and I seem to recall most of my friends being relatively well-informed at the time as there were constant arguments about whether SNES or Genesis was better. So if I were to assume, I would say that most kids probably do have a relatively good amount of knowledge when it comes to games. I also work at Toys R Us and when a kid asks if we have a game they always know exactly what they are talking about. But yes, most parents I'm sure are clueless.
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post #46 of 83
11/17/05 at 9:54pm
But what bothers me about the article is that, like the rest of Fox News, is that it appears as utterly dogmatic. From the title and the "spinning" of the 360 to make it a big discussion makes it seem like it is a fact that buying the 360 is a bad idea.

Fox News treats it as news, whereas CNN is a review of the console. A negative one, yes, but the fact that they say it is a review makes it different.

And Jesus Christ, aren't DVD players filled with hidden costs? HDTVs, Home theaters, cables, etc. But I guess those aren't "hot" enough of a topic and too mainstream for good ol' Fox News.
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post #47 of 83
11/17/05 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT
So must ask, has anyone seen a important difference between HDTV and regular TV? Or is more of "its looks better on HDTV, but your not missing much"
Significantly better picture. And now Bungie is saying that Halo 2 will look better on 360 with a higher resolution. But yes, playing in HI-Def is definitely worth it, if you've already got the equipment. I wouldn't think that a VG system by itself warrants a huge HDTV purchase, but if you've already got one, it's great.
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post #48 of 83
11/17/05 at 10:09pm
Anybody wondering about shortages:

We're getting EIGHTY. 60 Premium, 20 Core. 15 of the Premiums will be sold to my co-workers right as the store opens on Tuesday.

We open at 8. Safe bet, the system's gone by 8:30. Our next shipment's in February.

65 people go home happy. 65 people who were up and at the store at 6 am.

Good night, and good luck.
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post #49 of 83
11/17/05 at 10:13pm
Where do you work, Crow?
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post #50 of 83
11/17/05 at 10:17pm
Rhymes with Breast Cry.
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