MMA Thread (UFC, Pride, K-1, etc) - Page 38

I thought that was a really good show. Lesnar made me laugh, I'm not sure why people would take him so seriously but he sure went back to his roots. C'mon, he talked about climbing on top of his wife. What about that sounded real?

And like him or not, he's good for the sport. A dominant "bad guy" is not a bad thing for the UFC. People thought Mike Tyson was a horrible human being and tuned in to either see what he would do next or hoping that would be the night somebody handed him his teeth.

GSP was stunning, although I think I heard him say he pulled his groin a good 5 times. My friends and I kept trying to add "I pulled my groin" into conversation for the rest of the night. He just imposed his will. Alves has nothing to be embarrassed about, but he didn't have a lot to build off of either.

Fitch vs. Thiago was actually a really fun fight to watch too. Not much striking to be had, but lots of good mat technique. I was glad it actually ended up getting aired, although the timing of it was really odd.

was it just me or did one of GSPs coaches tell him to increase his groin attacks??

I think the trainer said "forget the groin! HIT HIM WITH YOUR GROIN!"

I'd swear I heard that as well.

Hendo's right hand made my entire night. I hope going into a rematch with Silva he figures out what went wrong last time and finds a way to capitalize, I just love the guy. The 2nd shot on Michael Out-for-the-Count Bisping was so satisfying after all the smack talking.

And agree on Shane Carwin. Dude is another ridiculously massive human that can muscle his way out of bad situations and has even heavier hands (Lesnar made Herring flip over, Carwin put Gonzaga to sleep with a short hook). I'd be more interested in that than Lesnar vs Nog/Cro Cop or anyone else in there right now. I hope he gets crushed, I hate him and his shitty attitude.

...He's smaller than Mir. Carwin is a pretty good sized HW at 6' 255lbs but Brock is much bigger at 6'3" 285lbs.

edit: To put things into perspective, Carwin and Randy are the same height.

He's 6'3 and weighed in at 259.5 vs Gonzaga. Mir is 6'1 and 245 vs Lesnar.

Unless you're referring to Mir's old physique.

Mir is somewhere between 6'2" and 6'3".

Christian Wellisch is 6'2" and he's clearly taller than Carwin.



Kongo is 6'4" (2 inches taller than Wellisch)



This fan listed his height at 6' in a thread he made on Sherdog and he's 4" shorter than Kongo here.



Now here's the same guy next to Carwin.



Carwin's height is a lie and I can't believe how many people fell for it. Isn't it obvious in every single one of his fights that he isn't 6'3" or 6'4"? He was shorter than both Wellisch and Gonzaga. This is the Gonzaga who was clearly shorter than Crocop (6'2") and roughly the same height as Couture (6'). Are you telling me Gonzaga or Wellisch are 6'4" or 6'5"?

Wikipedia and random Sherdog "expert" disrepencies aside, the official UFC bio's on Mir and Carwin both list them as 6'3, and why would they lie about that? Absurd.

Not that height is the point, at all. If Mir was 7 feet tall it wouldn't change the fact that he isn't a NCAA II Wrestling National Champion, 2 time NCAA Division II Wrestling National Runner-up and 2 time NCAA II All-American in Football like Carwin is. He has the size and credentials to stalemate Lesnar at the wrestling game and possibly land one of HIS ham slab fists on Brock's chin, something I don't see anyone else doing right now.

There's nothing official about it. They simply ask the fighters for their heights and that's it. There are no measurements done at all. That's how Spencer Fisher (same height as Hermes Franca who's 5'6") gets listed at 5'11".

You honestly can't think of a reason why a person would lie about their height?

And of course this isn't all about height. Being a 6' HW is fine and Carwin could easily land a bomb and knock out Lesnar. But he's three inches shorter and 30lbs lighter. People were saying that he would steamroll Lesnar in the grappling department back when they thought he was taller than Lesnar and also cut to 265lbs. No one says that after they find out his real height and weight.

The stats bit on the UFC 100 said Mir was also 6'3". I assume it's correct. Brock is so huge he seems like he would tower over him.

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many lumps of sugar do you want in your tea, good sir?

The rep system needs to make a comeback.

Yes, that's a great photo. He likes to circle like a cocky buzzard. That was probably the fight of the night for me. I only say that because they didn't show the prelim with "the bleeder".

That picture is awesome. You should Photoshop a Captain America outfit on Henderson. I never minded Bisping, as he reminded me of a Guy Ritchie character, but nothing's funnier than seeing a big talker get his ass KO'd.

And am I the only one that thinks Belcher got screwed? That one judge had Akiyama winning all three rounds, when he got knocked down in Round 1. Huh? By the end of Round 3, Belcher was tagging him whenever he wanted to. That ridiculous Superman punch off the ringpost was evidence of that.

Don't care about Lesnar's post-fight wrestling schtick. I was happy to see Mir go down. He talked and ran down Lesnar at every opportunity he had. I'm no huge Lesnar fan, but I was thrilled to watch Lesnar just pound on Mir until the ref finally stopped it. Mir looked like he'd been hit in the face with a bat multiple times.

Awesome.

Yeah, the people I was watching the ppv with were wondering why they didn't show the fight where someone's head obviously exploded. So much blood.

Hendo knocking out Bisping was KO of the year for me. So much shit talk and all of it was worth hearing just to see that KO.

I think Belcher got robbed and everyone I watched the ppv with agreed. We thought at worst it would be a split decision with one judge giving Akiyama a 29-28 pity vote. MMA judging needs a huge over-haul and it needs it now.

As for Lesnar, I think it's hilarious that people continuously shit on his WWE days and giggle at his lack of jiu jitsu as Mir did, then get all up in arms when he face rapes whomever he is fighting. A little perspective folks, Lesnar has beaten Heath Herring, Randy Coture, and Frank Mir. How many other heavyweights can say that? Now how many of them can say they did it in their first 5 fights. Lesnar's the real deal and he earned the right to make the fans booing him eat a little crow. May he have done it in a more tasteful manner? Certainly. Is he all that is unholy and evil because he has no tact? Of course not.

I'll take Lyoto putting Rashad down. It was (on paper) a much more competitive fight, and I am more annoyed by Rashad's mouth than I am Bisping's. On the other hand, this one had more of an exclamation point on it.

As for Lesnar, I seriously don't know who is going to stop him. I think he's simply too big/strong/fast for there to be any one fighter who is favored over him, including Fedor. Because we're talking heavyweights, there are plenty of people with a puncher's chance (Carwin first among them), but still...

I think you're right. Evans/Machida #1 but Hendo/Bisping #2 for sure.

The scary thing is Lesnar just seems to not get hurt, hell that flying knee from Mir probably would have laid out 70% of the guys in the division. No man is unbeatable but it's going to take a hell of a game plan to overcome his brutish style. If Lesnar ever learns any jiu jitsu.......... wow, just think about that. Someone is going to have to catch Lesnar right on the button or catch him with a submission because he's to damn big and atheletic to go five rounds with imho.

Definitely have to give Lesnar his props. I don't mind him going off on the crowd, but one thing I absolutely can NOT stand in MMA, boxing, or any combat sport is when a guy taunts his downed or hurt opponent. To get in Mir's bloody and beaten face (or what was left of it) when the guy is half conscious is juvenile, arrogant, and lacks the respect that all fighters should have for anyone willing to jump in a cage and get beaten for a living. Lesnar should show some respect to the guys who helped build up UFC, allowing him to come in a collect a fat paycheck. Mir's mouth pre-fight is no excuse for that behavior.

White has to get this Lesnar-Fedor match done. Fedor is the only guy I can see with a legitimate chance of neutralizing Brock's size and strength right now. Even if he were unable to pull out a win, presenting a vulnerable Brock would at least give the impression that there are a few Heavies that could give him a go. Velasquez, Carwin, Herring, Lashley (in a year or so), or even a trained Kimbo (but not likely). If Lesnar becomes this unstoppable force, the Heavyweight division gets a lot less interesting. Look at Silva in the Middleweight division - he's gotta step up to Light Heavy or wait for GSP to come up from Welterweight just to get some buzz.

What lesner did was immature, but i think the more important issue is what Henderson did. There's no excuse for him leaving his feet to drop a forearm on an obviously unconscious opponent. He admitted to doing it just to shut Bisping up. I'm all for finishing the fight, but hendo's comment makes me think he knew it was over before that last blow.

Agreed on most everything. I don't think Fedor-Lesnar needs to happen now, I do believe at some point it will have to happen. As for Brock taunting Mir, I agree to an extent but in the post fight conference Brock explained that he thought Mir had approached him and because of that he mouthed off. Lesnar went on to say that he knows that Mir didn't approach him and he said he had no ill will for Mir. I think Lesnar just gets batshit insane when he's in the moment. Not excusing his actions but I do think in hind sight he knows he kind of looked like an ass. Will that change anything? Maybe, but I doubt it.

You're right, Brock vs Fedor shouldn't happen right away, but White has to lay the groundwork so that when it's time, they can put that match together without too many complications. I wonder if Fedor has any interest in that match at this point.

Lesnar's apologies did sound sincere, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's got to rein in that adrenaline. Some post-match histrionics are to be expected, but to go off on any and everyone was way over the top.

He claimed afterwards that he did it out of spite, then retracted that and claimed the comment was just a joke. Either way he should be ashamed for how that went down. It was a F'ing spectacular KO, and even sweeter considering the smack Bisping was talking, but as you point out a defenseless opponent is no target for an illegal elbow. He got a $100k performance bonus, so we'll see how much of that Dana will be garnishing. I hope Bisping can rebound from those blows in the not too distant future - he's too good a fighter to lose to a concussion and cheap shot.

Wait..... are flying elbows illegal? I mean I guess I can see why they might be but I've never heard or read that, or maybe I did and overlooked it. Also the ref had not stopped the fight and I've seen to many times where a guy took pity and begged the ref to stop a fight only to have the ref say "keep going." If Hendo hit an illegal blow then they should address that and make it more obvious what is and isn't ok. If it's a legal shot than this is much ado about nothing.

It wasn't an illegal move, it just falls into that category of shots that may not have been necessary given the fact that Bisping was out before he hit the mat. Gray area, to be sure.

Well, since I hate Bisping then all's well. In all seriousness, I do hope he's OK as he did take two absolutely nasty shots to the head and seemed lost after he came to. I don't wish any fighter injured, well other than Karo Parysian, and I hope Bisping recovers enough to get knocked out again real soon.

It was an elbow to a downed opponent. Bisping was down and obviously out and Henderson came in and dropped an elbow straight to his head, which, if I'm reading the rules correctly is illegal. The ref hadn't stopped it at that point so I don't blame Henderson for following up even if Bisping was clearly out, but the elbow crossed the line for me. Joe Rogan even described it as a revenge blow. Now, Henderson could make the argument that it was a punch and not an elbow, or that the elbow contact was unintentional. He could well convince UFC officials of that. But, it seemed a little "unsportsmanlike" to go at the head of a guy that was pretty much out as soon as Henderson caught him with that right hook. He could have mounted him and threw a few punches. If Bisping hadn't responded by that point, the ref would have had enough time to step in.

To me, it looked like a punch that missed the mark and instead became a flying forearm.

I was actually rewatching the Hendo/Wanderlei fight last night, and after Hendo KO's Wandy with the left hook he again IMMEDIATELY drops for a punch (that also slips and looks more like a forearm shot) to ensure the fight is stopped and he cannot recover. Now, it happens a lot more quickly than in the Bisping fight and it's less obvious that he's unconscious on the way down.. but I think it's mostly just Dan capitalizing in the moment and trying to ensure the win more than taking cheap shots. He's always been a respectable guy.

Henderson has always been pretty respectable, and I should give him the benefit of the doubt because of it. But, his post-match comment regarding that blow is what made me question it. It looked like an elbow to me, but could easily have been a fist missing the mark. Whether he was truly "joking" or not, he left me with the impression that he was sending a message...which had been pretty successfully sent a second earlier. You brought up good evidence pointing to it probably being a fist, so Henderson's gotta watch his comments or he'll get a rep as a head hunter.

I don't know if it was meant to be an elbow or a crazy flying punch, but he didn't miss the mark. He hit Bisping in the face with that shot.

I'd agree with you 99.9% of the time. Fighters certainly have the right to go in and finish their opponents without hesitation, but the comments made by Henderson after the fight (which he claimed were were just trash talk after catching some heat for them) rubbed me the wrong way. Like you said, Henderson doesn't have a history of cheap shots, so I'd like to believe he wasn't pounding an unconscious Bisping out of anger over some pretty ordinary pre-fight shit talking. It sure does seem that way, though.

ETA: in response to Trejo's post.

Was there anybody watching the Henderson/Bisping fight who didn't think 30 seconds in that it was only a matter of time and the right hand would be what ended it? Every single right hand that missed made me think that eventually one would land, and those hits just looked so heavy it was incredible. Bisping forgetting his instructions and continuing to circle towards that right hand just made things feel inevitable.

Bisping looked out of his league right from the start.

Not saying I disagree entirely (look at the end result of the fight, right?), but I saw that particular little exchange a bit differently. Lesnar seems to have a fair bit of confidence in his stand-up and is happy enough to stay there while things are going his way. But to me, it looked like as soon as Mir hit him with that short punch and followed up with the knee, Lesnar did what all pure wrestlers back in the day did - instantly went back to his bread and butter and got the takedown.

The guy's a monster, no doubt. But I still think he has wrestler's allergies to getting hit. But THAT'S where the big problem lies, as I see it. Against a formidable striker, he might not have a good time. But the thing is, anyone in the UFC heavyweight division that's a an above average striker is absolutely WORTHLESS on the ground. Kongo is a great example - pretty smooth on his feet, but nowhere NEAR enough takedown defense to stop Lesnar if he does tag him and Lesnar shoots . . . and once Brock gets on top, it's all over.

Velasquez, with his wrestling ability and heavy hands . . . he might stand a chance. But he's merely a good wrestler. Brock is a GREAT wrestler. It's going to be a hell of a puzzle to solve without Fedor signing (which might actually be enough motivation for him - topple the top young stud) . . . I would actually be interested in seeing Lashley being bought in. However, you get two ex-WWE guys in there and the conspiracy theorists will have a field day.

I could feel a big shot coming, but I had no clue Henderson would catch Bisping that well. Bisping, for some crazy reason, didn't seem to respect that right enough to keep away from it, and all it took was one to put him out. I guarantee that after that punch, Henderson's next opponent will pretty much take the right out of the equation and dare him to go with the left.

I wonder what Bisping's parents would think of that knockout?

And I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you either. Wrestler's by and large do resort to the take down a great deal. But Coture landed shots, that on other guys have made impacts on the fight and Brock just seemed to eat them and keep coming. Of course Randy is not the best KO guy to make my point so I fully acknowledge that it's a shaky argument at this point. Bottom line, Lesnar has a jaw and a neck and from what I've seen in MMA, that's all one needs to get knocked out. Ask Rashad about that. Every fighter can get KO'd with big hands and tiny gloves.

I would like to see Lashley fight someone with a pulse before we start making WWE dream match ups but if he could take a name or two I wouldn't mind seeing that fight.

Fighters are trained to keep fighting until the ref stops it. That's what Hendo did. I will also add Rampage/Wandy 3 that ended with Rampage landing three shots to an unconscious Wandy. Two of which when the ref is pulling him off.

By the way, thanks for the new avatar Tre.

Some good shit:

Carwin fires first shot at Lesnar
http://insidefights.com/2009/07/12/c...hot-at-lesnar/

Odd, I asked Brock Lesnar if he could beat up Carwin for his "Please Love Me" bull shit. I'm betting at the end of the day Carwin would be pissed if his check was shorted about $50 grand, win or loss. Either way, guy's entitled to his opinion.

With that said, I found more Bisping goodness.





EDIT: They work in IE but not FF. I have no clue why.

I love how Hendo is airborne even on the way down.

Holy shit, that flying Hendo elbow drop pic is amazing. Punch-out and baby Bisping are good too.

If there's one thing MMA communities like Sherdog are good for, its hilarious post-fight pics and gifs

UFC 100 was a great event. I was most impressed by St. Pierre. He completely dismantled another top WW contender and apparantely did so with a torn groin or abductor muscle for about half the fight. He made Alves look lost. Alves did a good job of trying to stay aggressive on the feet, but GSP would just take him down almost at will (Alves did manage to stop a couple of takedowns actually). All in all GSP just keeps dominating. He reminds me a lot of Roy Jones in his prime now where he doesn't quite seem to take the chance to finish the fight necessary, but instead just embarrasses his opponents for the full length of the fight.

Henderson's KO of Bisping was just brutal. I don't think that his flying forearm smash was illegal (I was always under the impression that 12-6 elbows are the only illegal ones, not sure though). Fighters are trained to finish fights until the referee steps in. And to be fair you are in a fight, adrenaline is at high levels and it's a guy you don't like you chances are you'll try to "shut them up." Bisping is a good fighter, I'm just not sure he will ever be a title contender. He just doesn't have takedown defense or stopping power. I'm really looking forward to Hendo vs. Silva 2. Dan Henderson has quietly had one of the best careers in the history of the sport.

Lesnar vs. Mir was about how I expected it to go. Lesnar is just too big for the smaller HW's like Mir. I still think that a guy like Mir or Nogeuira could catch him in a sub, but it's not likely at this point. Lesnar's jitz defense seems to be just good enough to avoid be suprised by a sub attempt and his positioning and GnP are outstanding. The one thing that seemed odd to me though was that even though Mir looked like freshly minced hamburger meat, he didn't really seemed dazed or out of it, just didn't defend himself properly in a bad position. Not sure if Brock has that one punch KO power or if Mir just has a really good chin. I think Fedor would chew Brock up at this point still. I do like how Brock just sticks with what he's good at though, he's not trying to be something he isn't and has the potential to really be one of the most dominate fighters ever.

I had no problem with his post fight antics really. As far as him getting into Mir's face afterwards I couldn't tell what caused it, so I don't really have an opinion on it. In regards to him flipping off the crowd, who cares really? They can boo him and he is just supposed to take it? He was well within his rights to react that way towards a hostile crowd. His comments didn't really bother me either. I don't really get why everyone automatically assumes he's going into "WWE" mode all the time. Who's to say he just isn't reacting to it the way he would normally? I don't get why everyone seems to want to bring up his past job at every turn. When I say something people don't go "Oh, that's just the delivery boy coming out of him." It strikes me as odd. MMA fans need to get the sticks out of their asses and show the guy some respect for his skills. If you boo him do it because he seems like a douchebag and not because one of his past jobs was a pro wrestler.

I like that Hamill and Silva are at ringside. I LOL'D. I agree with Sin Eater on just about everything. Great post Sin.

Henderson sure did hit the START button on Bisping.

Peep the first 20 sec(s):

Dana White UFC 100 Video Blog - 7/11/09 Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKRH3HxpU9w

I don't like Rashad. He got KO'd by Lyoto like nothing. Hope Rampage kicks his ass.

LOL! Roycie Gracie was in the mix.

Those gifs were excellent.

Mortal Kombat FTW. Great stuff Brennar. I hope Bisping see's all of these and thinks about all the mess he talked, daily.

Mayhem was on the Jason Ellis show yesterday, and one of them mentioned that Bisping has been told he can't compete for a year because of the possible brain trauma that he suffered in that fight. Yikes.

Damn, Hendo knocked Bisping half-tard. A whole year? Insane, Bisping must really be wishing he had circled the other way.