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The Dead Celebrity Thread - Page 237

post #11801 of 12253

I'm a pretty big fan of Soundgarden and Cornell overall.  I listened to the first half of Badmotorfinger on the bus to work today.  I played Superunknown to death in the 90s but ironically i no longer own it.  I must have sold the CD prior to migrating to iTunes.  

 

This being primarily a movie-centric site it should be noted that there are 2 films named for Cornell lyrics -

 

One

 

Two

 

Additionally, not trying to be overly topical, morbid or anything with this song choice (because of the chorus), its really just one of my favorites of theirs.  It has everything.

 

 

post #11802 of 12253
Huh. Knew the second, not the first.
post #11803 of 12253
Feel really bad for his family. Not so much for him. Fucking call somebody.
Nobody forced him to make a noose.
post #11804 of 12253
That's not how the condition works sometimes unfortunately Blue Lou. Often it sabotages the brain's ability to process or even form that kind of thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylander View Post

Additionally, not trying to be overly topical, morbid or anything with this song choice (because of the chorus), its really just one of my favorites of theirs.  It has everything.



The second half of that album, including that song, is kind of underrated, including by me. I listened to it on the way home today for the first time in a while and with maybe the exception of Switch Opens everything from Never Named onward is pretty darn sweet.
post #11805 of 12253

Fuck you.

 

ETA : Directed to BlueLou.

post #11806 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Feel really bad for his family. Not so much for him. Fucking call somebody.
Nobody forced him to make a noose.

 

Wow. You continually prove yourself to be the biggest piece of shit on the boards. And that's sayin' something! Congrats. I echo the fuck you.

post #11807 of 12253
Really? What were the other times I was a piece of shit?
post #11808 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

Wow. You continually prove yourself to be the biggest piece of shit on the boards. And that's sayin' something! Congrats. I echo the fuck you.

Silence...not surprised. YOU THINK YOU FUCKING KNOW ME?!!!
post #11809 of 12253
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the Dead Celebrity thread.


 
post #11810 of 12253

I don't know if anger at people who commit suicide is necessarily a wrong reaction. It's an understandable one anyway, especially with people like Cornell who on the outside at least seemed to have things pretty good. But the problem with things like suicide (errr... pardon the pun) is you just can't know what goes on in other people's heads. Not everyone has the luxury of being in a rational frame of mind at all times, and unfortunately with the suicidally inclined sometimes all it takes is an impulsive act on a bad day and that's it. Oh well.

post #11811 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

Wow. You continually prove yourself to be the biggest piece of shit on the boards. And that's sayin' something! Congrats. I echo the fuck you.

I repeat, you don't know me.
Edited by Bluelouboyle - 5/19/17 at 5:57am
post #11812 of 12253

True depression robs a person of any and all joy in life.  The things that used to fulfill you and make you smile start to, on a good day, illicit nothing more than a sigh and a shrug.  Over years of extended phases like that, and all the distractions and drugs and therapy and sex haven't worked.... and you've looked deep internally trying to find that part of your soul that sprung a leak, but you just never seem to find it ....

 

Hey, EVERY man (or woman) has their breaking point.  In that state, you don't feel hope. You can't even fathom a world where hope exists.  You just want to stop worrying and stop struggling all the time, and suicide - say what you will about it - seems like a pretty reasonable solution from that end of the equation.

 

I don't condone it, nor do I recommend it.... but I sure as fuck UNDERSTAND what suicide is all about.  Some clearly do not.

 

....and tbh, I support a human being's right to choose if they want to die, whether their condition is terminal or emotional.  Every person should be free to fuck up their own lives as they see fit.

post #11813 of 12253
Not if they have young children, like he did.
post #11814 of 12253
I definitely get you Blue Lou, but think how harsh the chemistry of this disease must be if it even has the power to make you convince yourself your own kids would be better off if you were gone from this Earth.
post #11815 of 12253

Odd piece of trivia I saw someone point out: if you discount Paul McCartney who of course died in 1966, Cornell is the first person to sing a Bond theme to go.

post #11816 of 12253

Found myself singing this at full volume this morning. Woke up the gerbils. I was unusually sad yesterday but today I am just glad we have songs like this to listen to.

 

post #11817 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Nobody forced him to make a noose.

 

Unless, y'know, when the person who's adding to that pain is literally daring you to do it.

post #11818 of 12253

When a person goes mad, believing they're covered in spiders or something, they're not in a rational state of mind. They may hurt themselves and think they're helping themselves.  It's not much different.  The brain at that point is short circuiting.  It's not percieving things like a well adjusted normal person does.  They just don't.

 

Describing the different way a severely depressed person thinks is like trying to explain colors to a blind person. They won't get it, it's too abstract for their frame of reference.

 

You're vastly oversimplifying it by stating "Well, he had kids..."

Dude, the man was a fucking ROCK STAR.  He had all the drugs, money and pussy he could ever want. Everyone wanted to be his friend. He was good looking, talented and would never ever worry again about providing for his family..... and depression STILL kicked his ass and made him feel so worthless and helpless that he pulled the ripcord on his own life.  That shit is infinitely more powerful than you give it credit for.

 

It's like saying "Well, you should have held on tighter when that tornado hit... you had kids to live for, why'd you go and let yourself get sucked up like that? Asshole!"

post #11819 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

Odd piece of trivia I saw someone point out: if you discount Paul McCartney who of course died in 1966, Cornell is the first person to sing a Bond theme to go.

Matt Monro has been dead for over 30 years, dear chap.
post #11820 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel Red View Post


Matt Monro has been dead for over 30 years, dear chap.

 

The variation I heard was that he was the first singer of a Bond song played in the opening titles to pass. Although I have no idea if the guy who sang "Three Blind Mice" over the opening of Dr No is still with us.

 

Regardless, as a way of emphasising the tragedy of a younger death it's not an entirely irredeemable thing to note.

post #11821 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post
 

Although I have no idea if the guy who sang "Three Blind Mice" over the opening of Dr No is still with us.

 

Died in 2008 it turns out. Okay so it takes a bit of fudging. But it's interesting that both the Bonds themselves and the people who sang their themes have generally been so long-lived, until now unfortunately.

post #11822 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anjin View Post
 

When a person goes mad, believing they're covered in spiders or something, they're not in a rational state of mind. They may hurt themselves and think they're helping themselves.  It's not much different.  The brain at that point is short circuiting.  It's not percieving things like a well adjusted normal person does.  They just don't.

 

Describing the different way a severely depressed person thinks is like trying to explain colors to a blind person. They won't get it, it's too abstract for their frame of reference.

 

 

Yeah, it's just not really possible to fully understand the mindset of someone in that severe a state of depression. The closest I can come is to imagine being in the late stages of a terminal disease, with no hope of a cure and no way to manage the pain.

 

I still can't imagine myself giving up, but in that mindset, I can see the logic in giving one last performance and going out on your own terms.

 

People who harm others deserve condemnation. People who harm themselves deserve pity.

post #11823 of 12253

The "people who commit suicide are weak/deserve no sympathy" argument is the argument of children, libertarians, and sociopaths, not necessarily in that order.

 

Even with medications/therapy, sometimes the brain is literally outside of someone's control. 


Edited by Boone Daniels - 5/19/17 at 3:35am
post #11824 of 12253

post #11825 of 12253

Cornell's alleged time of death made me think of something Dave Gahan said, that it's hard to imagine the drop from the highs of a concert to the lows of a lonely hotel room. To experience that from night to night, from center of the love of thousands of people to a place where there's only your insecurities and fears.

post #11826 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtanen View Post
 

Cornell's alleged time of death made me think of something Dave Gahan said, that it's hard to imagine the drop from the highs of a concert to the lows of a lonely hotel room. To experience that from night to night, from center of the love of thousands of people to a place where there's only your insecurities and fears.

 

What's remarkable is that he must have been in that position thousands of times. There's no answer to "why now?" we'll ever know but it brings to mind something I once heard - that depression like alcoholism is not something ever cured, just continually overcome. I've often wondered if that is in fact the case. It's not a battle but a war, and wars are exhausting.

 

I haven't seen any reporting of a note. I guess if there was one, the family might not want it publicised.

post #11827 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

Yeah, it's just not really possible to fully understand the mindset of someone in that severe a state of depression. The closest I can come is to imagine beng in the late stages of a terminal disease, with no hope of a cure and no way to manage the pain.

I still can't imagine myself giving up, but in that mindset, I can see the logic in giving one last performance and going out on your own terms.

People who harm others deserve condemnation. People who harm themselves deserve pity.

This. So much this.

For all we know, he was so distraught that he felt like he might actually endanger his kids. It's not hard to have that fear. You make bad choices and do fucked up shit all the time, whose to say your next fuckup isn't leaving your kid in a locked car in Summer.

Suicide for many isn't a cowardly act, it's the last and fatal symptom of a terrible disease that even in 2017 still isn't widely accepted as a disease.

People with these emotional disorders live in a different world than you do. It's lonely and scary, and suicide seems like a plausible best of bad options choice.

Obviously this is an area of which I'm unfortunately intimately familiar. For my own struggles, and the two friends I had that took their own lives. One a 19 year old lovely girl who was an honors student, beautiful (developed early, knockout figure by the time she was 14), sweet, intensely passionate about geeky stuff in a age when that was still "lame" in the mainstream.. accepted to all the colleges she applied for and had a loving WASP family. Didn't matter. Her experience of life was that of despair and always second guessing herself. Poor thing 😭

(Wanted to quote only the last part, but mobile is being pissy about it)
post #11828 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

Wow. You continually prove yourself to be the biggest piece of shit on the boards. And that's sayin' something! Congrats. I echo the fuck you.

You posted a slobbering ode about *admiring* River Phoenix for becoming a junkie and dying young in "service of his art", which in my eyes, is a far more fucked up, tasteless, dangerous, and completely bizarre thing than being unintentionally insensitive about a suicide. You have zero room to judge anyone at all and this post is intolerable.
post #11829 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post
 

What's remarkable is that he must have been in that position thousands of times. There's no answer to "why now?" we'll ever know but it brings to mind something I once heard - that depression like alcoholism is not something ever cured, just continually overcome. I've often wondered if that is in fact the case. It's not a battle but a war, and wars are exhausting.

 

The last song on their setlist that night was Slaves & Bulldozers ("in my time of dying, I want nobody to mourn All I want for you to do is take my body home Well, well, well, so I can die easy"). Can't imagine what the drop must've felt like with that still in your head.

post #11830 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtanen View Post
 

 

The last song on their setlist that night was Slaves & Bulldozers ("in my time of dying, I want nobody to mourn All I want for you to do is take my body home Well, well, well, so I can die easy"). Can't imagine what the drop must've felt like with that still in your head.

 

From the outside it would seem to be the easiest thing to pick up the phone and call your wife or a friend, hell even a roadie, speak to your kids, just ring down to reception or go have a chat with the guy on duty. That someone wouldn't do that in that situation speaks volumes about how insulated and cut off your thought processes must be at that point from the world around you.

post #11831 of 12253

I'm not certain why there is a persistent cultural rush to judge folks, and for every goddamn thing.  I feel bad for Chris Cornell, I feel bad for the people who loved him and the people he loved.  The circumstances of his death don't change that.  I know I've been weak before, and I know every other motherfucker on this planet has been weak as well.

post #11832 of 12253
Depression is the cruel Devil on your shoulder, holding the broken-winged corpse of the Angel . . . and he shows it to you constantly.

Help? He asks you, how? What can anyone do for you? Why burden them? You want nothing more than to be told "It'll be ok" . . . You hate nothing more than being told "It'll be ok."

Kids? He doesnt care . . . in fact, he'll use the love you have for them against you, telling you how much better off they will be without you . . . mine is particularly insistent that the loss of their father will help 'build character' . . . that's not a 'cry for help' I dont want your fucking sympathy. I have absolutely no desire self destruct, but with actual neurochemical depression those thoughts are unavoidable.

Sorry, I'm ok. It's just been an incredibly difficult run these last few several months. Yesterday fucked with me something fierce, and I'm not even much of a fan.
Edited by Turingmachine75 - 5/19/17 at 10:55am
post #11833 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


You posted a slobbering ode about *admiring* River Phoenix for becoming a junkie and dying young in "service of his art", which in my eyes, is a far more fucked up, tasteless, dangerous, and completely bizarre thing than being unintentionally insensitive about a suicide. You have zero room to judge anyone at all and this post is intolerable.

 

Oh, dear. WelI, I always enjoyed your post back in the day bragging about humiliating a girl over a hygiene issue who had just given everything of herself to you. You thought it was funny to share that you left that soiled condom on her dresser on the way out the door.  You remember that? You were quite proud.

 

But, hey, you win, JackknifeJohnny. I think I'm done.

post #11834 of 12253

I'm devastated by the Cornell tragedy. If we can't feel empathy over something like this, what are we?

post #11835 of 12253

We're all stuck on this spinning ball of mud together. We all know the feel of pain and loss. If you handle your shit better than your neighbor, maybe you can offer your neighbor an encouraging word or a kind act instead of using it as an excuse to feel like you're better than somebody else.  

Being cold hearted dicks towards people who are suffering is what we have the GOP for. As a species we should be better than that.

post #11836 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

Oh, dear. WelI, I always enjoyed your post back in the day bragging about humiliating a girl over a hygiene issue who had just given everything of herself to you. You thought it was funny to share that you left that soiled condom on her dresser on the way out the door.  You remember that? You were quite proud.

But, hey, you win, JackknifeJohnny. I think I'm done.

1. I remember that story and I neither bragged about it or humiliated anyone, so you're either intentionally or unintentionally mischaracterizing that story in the hope of winning something, so you apparently have lost the plot of what this is about.
2. Bounce if you want. There's a million ways you could have responded to Bluelouboyle, but you chose to attack someone who didn't attack you. Take some responsibility. Outside of that, you're not someone I'm overly concerned about.
3. There's only one "K" in my User Name.
post #11837 of 12253
Did civility die this year or was that a victim of 2016's genocide?
post #11838 of 12253
Fat Elvis, don't bounce.

Bluelou, I don't agree with your perspective but I recognise this is a complex issue and your viewpoint is heartfelt. I don't think anyone has a claim to perfect insight, least of all those of us who can only be strangers to each personal struggle, whether it's an apparently privileged rock star or a father doing what he can for his son.
post #11839 of 12253
As someone who's suffered with suicidal ideation (and made a few attempts) since adolescence, I've grown accustomed to the lack of sympathy and understanding from people who just don't get why someone would take his own life. It's frustrating, but so's having a brain that fixates on how there's nothing to live for. You deal with it as best you can until you can't.
post #11840 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post


The two Marks are still kicking! Mark Arm from Mudhoney (and Green River) and Mark Lanegan from Screaming Trees. I know, not part of the Seattle "majors" but still.

Terrible news about Cornell. Had meant to try to get tix to see Temple of the Dog last year and never got around to it. Ahhh well. Saw Soundgarden a few times in the 90s, at least there's that.

 

King Buzzo! 

post #11841 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad R View Post

Terrible waking up to the news of Chris Cornell. Just about knocked the wind out of me. First saw Chris and Soundgarden back in 1990 in a small college club. They played the middle of a triple bill with Faith No More opening, and Voivod headlining. One of the top concerts of my entire life. Saw him several other times, an amazing voice.

 

 

Oh man, I'm not huge on FNM but SG and VV in a small club? I'd have died to see that show at that time. 

post #11842 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post


1. I remember that story and I neither bragged about it or humiliated anyone, so you're either intentionally or unintentionally mischaracterizing that story in the hope of winning something, so you apparently have lost the plot of what this is about.
2. Bounce if you want. There's a million ways you could have responded to Bluelouboyle, but you chose to attack someone who didn't attack you. Take some responsibility. Outside of that, you're not someone I'm overly concerned about.
3. There's only one "K" in my User Name.

 

I've only had harsh words with like 3 people in my 10 years on CHUD. I like to think I'm respectful to everyone for the most part.

 

However, since I'm barely hanging on, and have had suicidal thoughts of my own over the last few years, I was shaking with rage at BlueLou's typical meathead bullshit (read his posts in the Critic thread for further evidence).

 

I think I've earned the benefit of the doubt, and maybe a pass at telling someone to fuck off, so I was surprised when you PM'd me that I was banned for a week. Especially after you gave just a warning to participants in a similar recent verbal exchange in Star Wars thread. To not give me that same consideration feels like a continuation of your odd obsessive personal feud with me - you have on multiple occasions mocked me to my face.  And really who needs that?

 

This community is supposed to be a 'safe space'.

post #11843 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

I've only had harsh words with like 3 people in my 10 years on CHUD. I like to think I'm respectful to everyone for the most part.

However, since I'm barely hanging on, and have had suicidal thoughts of my own over the last few years, I was shaking with rage at BlueLou's typical meathead bullshit (read his posts in the Critic thread for further evidence).

I think I've earned the benefit of the doubt, and maybe a pass at telling someone to fuck off, so I was surprised when you PM'd me that I was banned for a week. Especially after you gave just a warning to participants in a similar recent verbal exchange in Star Wars thread. To not give me that same consideration feels like a continuation of your odd obsessive personal feud with me - you have on multiple occasions mocked me to my face.  And really who needs that?

This community is supposed to be a 'safe space'.

1. I don't have any more of a personal feud with you than I do with Barry Woodward. Take that as you will.

2. I can't have possibly mocked you to your face since I've never met you.

3. If you've obseved me giving people repeated warnings, then that means you know this kind of stuff is on my mind. The fact that you had an awareness of it but pushed it anyway, means that you don't give a fuck.

4. CHUD is a community, but not a "safe space". We will argue, cast aspersions on and otherwise piss each other off for one reason or another, but recognize and try to adhere to certain boundaries That's how it goes.

Even though I did not personally address him, Bluelouboyle actually PM'd me expressing a degree of introspection that you have yet to demonstrate. You think I don't have problems? Things in my personal life that weigh on me every single day? What I don't do is use those things as a reason to excuse my behavior towards one person or another. I may fuck up and come across as arrogant or whatever you like, but I own that shit.
post #11844 of 12253
You're more than welcome to clear the air with Bluelouboyle via PM if you wish, but I have nothing more to say to you.
post #11845 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtanen View Post

Cornell's alleged time of death made me think of something Dave Gahan said, that it's hard to imagine the drop from the highs of a concert to the lows of a lonely hotel room. To experience that from night to night, from center of the love of thousands of people to a place where there's only your insecurities and fears.

I had the exact same thought. I've heard it from successful comics too. That there's no better way to feel crushing loneliness than to be the adored centre of the attention of hundreds or thousands of people, then an hour later be completely alone.
post #11846 of 12253

So is Elvis suspended for a week or not? I only ask because he's participating in the draft next week, and a suspension doesn't really seem warranted in this case. 

post #11847 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

As someone who's suffered with suicidal ideation (and made a few attempts) since adolescence, I've grown accustomed to the lack of sympathy and understanding from people who just don't get why someone would take his own life. It's frustrating, but so's having a brain that fixates on how there's nothing to live for. You deal with it as best you can until you can't.

 

We live in a society where the concept of "free will" is paramount. 

 

The idea that thought patterns in your brain are the result of some physical or chemical imbalance, maybe caused or exacerbated by drugs (legal and/or illegal) or alcohol, is very hard to accept. 

 

If you fell and broke and arm or a leg, there would be no question of going to the hospital and getting it treated. Mental illness is so much more subtle, symptoms can lie dormant for years, the sufferer may be able to conceal (from themselves and others) what's happening to them..hell they may not even be aware of it. 

post #11848 of 12253

The topic is a fascinating one and something I think should be discussed more frankly. I'm not so sure it's great to derail this thread to do it though. I don't mind it here, but I can see the point of view of someone who always panics when they logon and see a shitload of new posts on the Dead Celebrity thread.  

post #11849 of 12253
I never knew those things about Brad. If he'd ever shared that particular issue before then I must've missed it. And frankly I don't know what to say now, except to extend him the same courtesy that I do anyone...which is, if you're ever feeling that way again talk to someone...anyone. Do anything. I'm always open to PMs and through that I'll share my cell #. I'll take calls any hour of the day or night. I don't care. I'll talk for 24 hours if you feel you need to. I'll miss work. And if not me...then please, somebody. I don't take this sort of thing lightly. This isn't just for him. Anyone that has a thought like that. PM me. I'll listen. I know he probably is @_@-ing me right now and that's fine lol. Just throwing that out there..
post #11850 of 12253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

I had the exact same thought. I've heard it from successful comics too. That there's no better way to feel crushing loneliness than to be the adored centre of the attention of hundreds or thousands of people, then an hour later be completely alone.

 

I'd imagine that could crush anyone, and either lead to depression or trying to numb yourself with alcohol and drugs. Very few of us are Zaphod Beeblebrox -level megalomaniacs , who are immune to that (Bono, Madonna, Liam Gallagher).

 

And I read a rumor that Cornell used a relaxant called Ativan and had possibly taken too much of it that night. Side effects include lowered judgment and suicidal thoughts.

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