God is Great! (aka, guess y'all didn't pray hard enough pt. 2)

You know, I'd take the opinions of the atheist crowd a lot more seriously if most of them didn't act like such assholes all the time.

So, you can't see the inherent irony of people being trampled to death in a 'symbolic stoning ritual'?

EDIT: Edited to protect the sensibilities of reactionary pedants who had their morning coffee before I did when I posted the horrible, language-abusing mistake of typing "inherit" instead of "inherent", and also apparently using the word "irony" to make myself somehow feel "important".

Please carry on.

Funny...that's exactly how I feel about a vast majority of the religious crowd.

Fuck... I wasted a prayer on THAT?

I am a total athiest at this point in my life, but really, these "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?" threads are just plain fucking stupid. Gets nobody nowhere.

Tsk tsk people - of course their prayers didn't work. They're Muslims! They're praying to the wrong Invisible Cloud Sorceror! We know that the real God only listens to the chosen few, and the chosen few certainly aren't brown and Islamic! Don't you all get how it works??

I'd laugh if I didn't think that somewhere someone would read that and think "Ya know - he's right!"

If you believe in a God, then what is the big deal if you die?

Hey! Shouldn't the thread title be changed from God is Great to Allah is Great on that condition! I mean, we already have a CHRISTIAN God/prayer debate, can't we share the wealth?

EDIT: I mean, if you are going to ridicule someone's deity and faith, at least get it correct so they can declare jihad on your ass.

I read this story and I really don't think it compares to the points brought up in the original thread and story.

First of all, it's "inherent," not "inherit," unless, of course, all the people who died were the descendents of someone who set up the preconditions that led to an ironic situation.

Second, there is nothing ironic about the situation. It would be ironic if they were killed by boulders from a landslide, or if they were trampled in the act of stomping on grapes. This was just stupid and tragic.

This is such a growing trend - people seeing something that to them seems funny and then calling it "ironic" in an attempt to give some credence to what they are saying. But irony takes intelligence and actually knowing what you're talking about. If you had read the article, you would have known that this was not a symbolic stoning of a person, it was throwing rocks at a pillar (which stood as a symbol of evil) to symbolically rid themselves of sin. So, tell me, how does 345 people dying in the act of throwing rocks at a large rock constitute irony?

Many good points have been made regarding religion in other threads (from all sides of the issue, I certainly accept that). But this is just pathetic.

Hello new custom user text.

I like the idea of Hajj. Shia and Sunni, Rich and Poor, Strong and Weak all are required to dress and act in accordance (without animosity). It’s the kind of leveller you don’t see in many other religions (esp. Christianity).

It's a tragedy people should die on such a peaceful pilgrimage.

Judd, I think you're missing the boat here - maybe people around here (America) DID pray enough this time...

Okay, I know this thread is not meant to be a discussion of semantics, so forgive me; but again, you don't understand irony. It would be ironic if people died every year during a religious practice meant to extend life.

If someone was having an operation to fix a severely broken bone but died on the operating table, that's sad. If someone was having an operation to prolong their life but died due to complications in surgery, that's ironic.

Awesome.

Now they're saying up to 345 dead. From that link:

Some sort of natural selection at work here, I think.

It's a term with controversial usage, and its meaning continues to evolve. However, I'd say your first example is a damn fine example of situational irony. The second example you give, and the example in JuddL's post fit about equally well into the "irony of fate" category, which does not require a direct opposition between expected and actual results, but merely a relationship of some sort.

Thanks for the link. Interesting read. I'll back off on my point about JuddL's use of "ironic."

However, I still hold that people are increasingly using a mantle of "irony" to try to give some weight to an asinine or mean-spirited claim. Really, all that is being done is thumbing a nose at someone and saying "Na-na-na-na-na-na!" But, by couching it as pointing out an irony, it makes the speaker or writer feel more important. Unfortunately for the speaker or writer, the attempt is most often transparent, as it was here.

I guess you didn't catch my irony.

No, seriously, you were missing my point. I was saying that my attempt was transparent as well. That is why I wrote, "as it was here." It was not a flame.

I know I was combining two thoughts in one sentence, and that that construction was very unclear and problematic. I was saying that I don't like the increasing use of the word "irony" as a justification for uncreative mean-spiritedness, but I closed by saying that what I was doing was equally transparent. Sorry if this was confusing.

Especially for non-pedants, such as yourself.

You want to take this outside?

My original post has been edited to reflect my grievous errors.

I'm rarely offended by anything on these boards but this thread did it. What if it were Jews instead of Muslims who had been trampled ? Would we be having this conversation ?

Why do people keep mentioning other faiths in these threads? To answer your question, if it had been Jews, then YES, we'd still have these threads. I don't care if it's Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Scientologists, or Seventh-Day-freakin-Adventists -- when they do bizarre things in the name of faith and die during the process, it's bound to be commented upon.

As for this particular incident, to paraphrase someone on another site I visit often, "Considering that they're hurling rocks at the most powerful evil being in the universe, it's a wonder they're not all dead..."

This shit happens every year.

Very true.

The Religious Policeman, a good occassional read at the best of times, had something to say about too many pilgrims at the Hajj at the weekend.

I doubt people would be laughing if I started a thread about 300 Jews or Americans being trampled. Some Chewers get offended when others argue against Israel so that's why I brought this up.

Are you kidding? If 300 Americans got trampled to death going to look at one of those Virgin Mary underpass stains, or going to throw rocks at a symbolic Satan, or to touch the hem of Tom Cruise's robe at a Scientology convention, we'd be starting threads about them too.

No one is above being mocked, including us lowly atheists. Hey, maybe we'll get lucky and a bunch of atheists will get trampled in a mad stampede at a Richard Dawkins book-signing! Everybody wins!

I was talking about the fact that some Chewers get easily offended about religious issues taht are close to their own.

The thing is, when it's about Muslims, the threads here are often borderline racist (not sure if this is the right word). Like this one. I don't believe would be making jokes if 300 Jews had been trampled to death during a religious ritual.

These days, it seems there are three groups you can openly hate : the Muslims, the Frenchs and the Americans.

If they died in the exact same circumstances, you better believe i would laugh.
Im sick and tired of people who do dumb-ass shit in the name of their faith. As said previously, this happens ever year, this is not the first time that people have been killed doing this.
If they are DUMB enough to put their lives in danger doing it again then you bet its funny.

Just so we're clear, I do think the ritual is dumb and I do find it funny that they died because of it. My point is I don't believe I could say the same thing about Jews or white Christians.

I think it's easier just to hate humans in general and be done with it.

What? These are two of the most mocked and ridculed groups i can think of

Are you reading the same forum I am? We hardly ever even have any threads devoted to Muslim issues in this forum. I think the vast majority of threads here are Christian-bashing or just general anti-religion threads, with the occasional actual discussion of religious issues amongst the CHUD believers.

Trust me, we are Equal Opportunity Faith Bashers 'round these parts.

Aaah...ummm....let me get this straight. You were initially offended by this thread (first quote) because people were being frivolous and taking the piss out of the dead pilgrims. By replacing Muslims with Jews in your example, you hoped to highlight how upsetting this thread was. Fair enough. A touch sanctimonious, and I disagree wholeheartedly, but I guess I can see what you're trying to say.

You then chime in (second quote) and admit that you actually find it hilarious that these moronic Muslims died, but you wouldn't find it hilarious if these Muslims had been Jews.

I actually don't have the words to sufficiently villify you for your stupidity, hypocrisy and naked, po-faced xenophobia.

Yes there is a lot of Christian bashing but I never read a thread where Chewers rejoiced over the death of Christians.

Look, I knew I was getting myself in trouble when I first posted in this thread and I don't always get my point across because of the language barrier.

Read my post. That's not what I said.My point is, I don't think it would be acceptable on these boards if I posted a thread where I'm making fun of 300 Jews dying. I'd be compared to Hitler in three replies.

Really ?

Eh -

No, no. See, that IS what you said.

If you felt the language barrier caused you to misrepresent how you felt, I apologise for the harsh words - but you have to admit, second-language or not, you're treading some fairly muddy moral ground.

Again, I would have found hilarious wether they be Muslims, Jews or Christians. What I believe is that most would not have laugh at this news if it had been another group than Muslims.