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Who Still Loves The Matrix Trilogy? - Page 5

post #201 of 213
The loss of Gloria Foster was huge in my opinion. She brought intelligence (and most especially) a warmth to the Oracle Mary Alice was lacking in.

The others were no major loss (especially Chong who had some of the worst delivery and acting of anyone in the first flick).
post #202 of 213
I really don't see how replacing Aaliyah with Nona Gaye was a trade down. And they really should have gotten more creative with replacing the Oracle. Like have the new body be a nine-year-old asian boy. That would have been much more interesting.

But really, cast changes didn't do nearly as much damage as the fact that the final battles were fought by minor supporting characters that nobody cared about.
post #203 of 213
I'd agree with mike on the cast changes if Harold Perrineau and Nona Gaye weren't the only two characters in the sequels I actually cared about.
post #204 of 213
For me, the series gets frustrating with Revolutions. Reloaded ends--Zion's about to be invaded, Neo's in a coma but has evidently become able to connect with machines outside the Matrix, and most of all, Morpheus' very faith, his very drive to lead the rebellion against the machines, has been revealed to be a sham, another extension of the machine's control over mankind. His faith is shattered, the man is broken.

Revolutions feels like a re-edit happened after people complained about Reloaded's talkiness. A majority of the movie focuses on the sub-characters and the attack on Zion (which, while a truly awesome set piece, overwhelms the rest of the film), and what's worse is that for some reason Neo becomes a sub plot. Morpheus is a glorified cameo. Plot threads that are started are never resolved, or truncated immensely. Persephone gets one line of dialogue, and while I'll forever drool over the incredible clevage on display by Ms. Bellucci, she's nothing but window dressing in this movie. There's a 20-minute build up at the beginning to spring Neo from his prison, and it turns out to be as easy as pointing a gun at the Merovingian and taking a train ride.

What bugs me is the ending. Morpheus is left to be another face in the crowd, with no conclusion to his arc. We spend the last scene in this epic with three characters, two of whom only appeared in this entry (the little girl and the new Oracle) and another who had maybe 5 lines over the entire series...they're the ones who close this out? After all that's happened, we conclude with characters we barely know watching a sunrise? I've always thought the ending should have shown that agreement between humans and machines taking place, see the peace be initiated. The Oracle and the Architect still could have been present and had their exchange, but the context could have given Morpheus some closure, and since he was one of the main characters of the trilogy and was going through a dynamic change at the beginning of Revolutions.

I love the first two and think they are fun, thought-provoking films, and I do like the third one, but it's more the parts of it than the whole--what's in there is good, but what's painfully, obviously left out leaves one thirsting for more.
post #205 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by g-dude
and what's worse is that for some reason Neo becomes a sub plot. Morpheus is a glorified cameo. Plot threads that are started are never resolved, or truncated immensely. Persephone gets one line of dialogue, and while I'll forever drool over the incredible clevage on display by Ms. Bellucci, she's nothing but window dressing in this movie.
Look, Persephone (the character) *is* just window dressing in the third film - her importance was for the second film. But how can you say Neo becomes a sub plot? He drives the whole resolution and (along with Smith) carries the whole last third of the film. What's wierd is that Morpheus was proven wrong, but then is finally proven right: Neo was the One, just in a different way that Morpheus believed it was supposed to work.
post #206 of 213
It's been a while, but it's my recollection that the film pretty much abandons Neo and Trinity for a good 45 minutes so it can do the whole attack on Zion, which is again filled with people we are barely aquainted with. And Morpheus doesn't do anything the entire movie after the opening sequence, which again, feels like something got left out. And Persephone had an air of mystery about her in the second movie, with the underlying implication that more of her would be revealed in Revolutions. She was built up to have a vital importance to the overall story--as is, she opens a door, then returns to being eye candy.
post #207 of 213
I think that a lot of people make the time in the film where Neo and Trinity aren't around out to be longer than it is. The way it's actually shot is that there are long stretches in between cuts back to them, but it's not as if they are totally abandoned.

I can totally dig that people wanted more from Neo in the third movie, but I believe the plot says that Neo's journey is on its last leg and to simply tell that would only take half the time and make for a helluva lot less "closure" than there actually is.

So they cut it against what's happening in Zion and the more minor characters because they represent physically and immediately the greater ideological struggle that Neo is involved in, and on his way to resolve.

We have to see the cold efficiency of the machines, we have to see the awesome but ultimately futile attempt the Zionites give to defend themselves. We have to see this stuff to grasp the full resonance of what The Architect says to Neo at the end of the second film.

I watched the fight knowing that the humans would be pushed backward until they finally lost. It's a classic sequence bogged down by characters most of the audience didn't care about, and of course with some contextually unfamiliar stuff thrown around (walking tanks, 2-man bazooka units, etc etc). It's classic because it hits on a lot of the conventions I would imagine belong to a Last Stand sort of sequence, which this more or less is.

There's the gruff general, the precocious and over-eager youngster. There's even some other nice touches provided by the Wachowskis to what's usually a male-dominated affair: he has two women fighting their asses off. And no matter what anyone says about the boring and one-dimensional secondary characters, I liked Chas and I felt it when she died.

I think Ebert said something similar, too. It was an effective twist on something we were, thematically at least, familiar with.

And as for Morpheus, his presence serves the plot. I think a lot of people go into movies like these expecting the Big Name Stars to be on camera for the entire running time. That's an exaggeration, but it's pointed. There's no reason why Morpheus has to "do" anything other than what he's done. Your description of him after Reloaded is apt, G-dude. And he take second fiddle to characters who are ideologically simple (Niobe, Roland) and better prepared to act in spite of philosophical turmoil, like that which Morpheus is visibly going through.

But by the time Neo martyrs himself and the sentinels become majestic jellyfish, Morpheus leads the pack once again. It's no accident that he's the first out of the hollow, and he's the one who's most immediately aware of what he's seeing. He knows it's Neo. He weeps because his faith his healed.

And as far as the ending in the Matrix itself goes... well, that's an epilogue. It's the bookend moment. The anti-climax. It didn't need to be there, and it does feel slightly off. But how else was that exposition to take place? The Architect and The Oracle are the Gods of this universe. And they were at war. A peace accord between man and machine is a peace accord between these Gods, who are also philosophical cyphers representing several ideas (rather than one each). The Oracle is actually surrounded by two characters who are themselves cyphers, reinforcing the position she represents in contradiction to the "hard-line" machine stance.

So when I sat down and thought about what the scene meant, it didn't bother me. It was more important than how it played out on screen, and I was willing to give it some thought. So it works for me.

But the real ending is Neo's body being carted off to who-knows-where. It's the Kid declaring what's happened to the populace of Zion and it's them cheering in thoughtless reaction to the suspension of a vital threat. The Kid's delivery isn't the greatest, but it does feel honest.

Anyway. There's my long-winded 2 cents once again.
post #208 of 213
Sorry, I only really like the first film. Parts 2 and 3 don't do much for me at all.
post #209 of 213
You'll love parts 4, 5, 6 & 7...that's if I'm involved.
post #210 of 213
For me to address all that is wrong with the Matrix sequels and propose the repairs needed would basically require rewriting both movies right here in this thread, and my busy Hollywood schedule prevents such frivolity.
post #211 of 213
This is the second thread you've managed to throw an unrelated reference to your HOLLYWOOD CAREER into. We're all real impressed.
post #212 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel St. Buggering
I really don't see how replacing Aaliyah with Nona Gaye was a trade down. And they really should have gotten more creative with replacing the Oracle. Like have the new body be a nine-year-old asian boy. That would have been much more interesting.

But really, cast changes didn't do nearly as much damage as the fact that the final battles were fought by minor supporting characters that nobody cared about.
I just got around to reading this thread, and I have to say, I agree completely with your first thought, as I've long thought the same. They had such a great excuse, plot-wise, for the different appearance of her character that it would have only reinforced the point that things were changing drastically in the Matrix to recast the role with someone completely different, or at least of a different age. It also would have better honored Gloria Foster's performance.

I did care about the secondary characters in the final battles. I have more of a problem with Neo's final battle with Smith. It bores me. But I like the fact that Neo gives up and allows Smith to win the battle, but then lose his purpose by having assimilated everything, thus reseting the Matrix. At least, I think that's what happened.
post #213 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel St. Buggering
This is the second thread you've managed to throw an unrelated reference to your HOLLYWOOD CAREER into. We're all real impressed.
Could you do me a favor and PM me whenever I mention my busy career in Hollywood to the folks? I keep losing count. Thanks.

It's fucking sarcasm. Lighten up.
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