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Bryant Gumbel's Comments on HBO: Racist?

post #1 of 91
Thread Starter 
Copied from: http://toddchristian.prblogs.org/

Quote:
“Because [the Winter Olympics] are so trying, maybe over the next three weeks we should all try too. Like try not to be incredulous when someone tries to link these games to those of the ancient Greeks who never heard of skating or skiing. So try not to laugh when someone says these are the world’s greatest athletes, despite a paucity of Blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention. Try not to point out that something’s not really a sport if a pseudo-athlete waits in what’s called a “kiss and cry area” while some panel of subjective judges decides who won. And try to blot out all logic when announcers and sports writers pretend to care about the luge, the skeleton, the biathlon, and all those other events they don’t understand and totally ignore for all but three weeks every four years. Face it, these Olympics are little more than a marketing plan to fill space and sell time during the dreary days of February. So, if only to hasten the arrival of the day they’re done, and we can move on to March Madness, for God’s sake, let the Games begin.”
I guess I'll respond point by point:

The Olympics have been in a constant state of evolution, so criticizing the Olympics because they can't be "linked to Ancient Greeks" is ludicrous. The athletes also don't compete in the nude, or to the death, anymore. How preposterous! They didn't have gymnastics back then? Throw that sport out!

A "paucity of Blacks" means that these aren't some of the world's greatest athletes? The lack of black athletes is startling, and probably does mean that some of the best competitors aren't at these games. Then again, how did the predominantly Black U.S. Olympic basketball team fare last year? How many Blacks have medalled in swimming?

He's right that the Winter Olympics are underinclusive, but different regions simply attract people to different sports unequally. This is true for just about any athletic endeavor. His attitude irritates me because baseball was thrown out of the summer games for essentially the exact same attitude (but reversed) among the Olympic committee: baseball did not appeal to enough European white nations, as though that had any bearing as to whether or not a sport was "worthy" of being in the Olympics. If Gumbel feels it appropriate to dismiss a sport because it does not sufficiently appeal to black athletes, is it fair for Europeans to dismiss a sport because it does not sufficiently appeal to white athletes? Is he crossing a line here and relying on a racist stereotype? And, if so, would it be acceptable if he was discussing mathematical ability, spatial reasoning, I.Q., etc?

His critiques of the panel of subjective judges and the hypocrisy of caring about minor sports such as the skeleton is fairly accurate, but are pretty cynical. I must assume that he dismisses boxing as a sport, since it so often relies upon the opinions of "subjective judges".

I find it ironic that he then praises March Madness, in which a predominantly black college athletic base earns overwhelmingly white industries and colleges billions of dollars while receiving little to no compensation (and face horrendous graduation rates).
post #2 of 91
I don't get the thread title. You're asking if these comments are racist? Cuz that's dumber than usual.
post #3 of 91
What an ass. Nothing against March Madness, but it's strictly small time next to the Olympics.

And here I thought Bryant was a cool dude. I remember watching him cover the '88 Games. I guess those days are over.
post #4 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
I don't get the thread title. You're asking if these comments are racist? Cuz that's dumber than usual.
Sparking a discussion as to whether someone intimating that "these aren't world class athletes if blacks aren't among them" is a racist comment is dumb? Considering that whether or not Gumbel's comments were racist is a debate appearing all over television, talk-radio, and newsprint, and I would say it is a very legitimate discussion to be had.

Your reply is more "trollish than usual".
post #5 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
Sparking a discussion as to whether someone intiminating that "these aren't world class athletes if blacks aren't among them" is a racist comment is dumb? Considering that whether or not Gumbel's comments were racist is a debate appearing all over television, talk-radio, and newsprint I would say it is a very legitimate discussion to be had.

Your reply is more "trollish than usual".

I don't troll. I'm blunt.

One sentence of what you quoted is about the race of the atheletes, and he's right. It's the Honkey Games out there. Is there a legit discussion to be had about the way blacks dominate basketball? Sure. But that doesn't mean THIS isn't a legit discussion to be had.

Further, he's right on every count. I was at a bar Monday night and this nonsense was on TV - it's lame, it's not sports, and no one really gives a shit about the fucking luge. It's this weird thing people have been brainwashed into accepting. I mean, snowboarding? Figure skating? Give me a break.
post #6 of 91
Then don't watch it. Wow, that was hard.
post #7 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Then don't watch it. Wow, that was hard.

Honestly, this is the worst kind of post. It's so retarded and betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of discussion in general and message boards in particular. It's something a middle schooler would say.

You're right, Dick. We should only comment on stuff that we like. That way the board can be just one giant jerk off session.
post #8 of 91
Let's look at your initial post:
Quote:
I was at a bar Monday night and this nonsense was on TV - it's lame, it's not sports, and no one really gives a shit about the fucking luge. It's this weird thing people have been brainwashed into accepting. I mean, snowboarding? Figure skating? Give me a break.
"Give me a break," yeah, there's something you can sink a debate into. You weren't looking for discussion, you were pontificating, so please spare me the indignation.

As for the whole middle schooler thing, well, "know your audience," they say.
post #9 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Further, he's right on every count. I was at a bar Monday night and this nonsense was on TV - it's lame, it's not sports, and no one really gives a shit about the fucking luge. It's this weird thing people have been brainwashed into accepting. I mean, snowboarding? Figure skating? Give me a break.
Everything he stated could be a legitimate launching point for argument about what games are included in the olympics save one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrant Gumbel
So try not to laugh when someone says these are the world’s greatest athletes, despite a paucity of Blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention.
Sorry, but that statment does come across as fundamentally racist. Because no blacks participate in a particular sport, there aren't world class Athletes competing in it? Geographicly, the winter oylmpic games include competetors from countries with a decernable Winter (i.e. they have snow). Said countries tend to racially favor caucasians by population, so it would be logical to assume that more athletes would be white in these type of games. Economics plays a factor as well along with culture, but regardless, where does the racial make up of the athletes have anything to do with the legitimacy of calling it sport worthy of olympic competition?
post #10 of 91
I guess we should take the U.S. Soccer Team out of the World Cup. It's not like Americans care about soccer.
post #11 of 91
Besides generally agreeing that the Olympics (winter more so than the summer) are lame, I think Gumbel's an asshole.
post #12 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader
I guess we should take the U.S. Soccer Team out of the World Cup. It's not like Americans care about soccer.
Would anyone notice?

And doesn't the USA have a World Series where only American teams take part?
post #13 of 91
First off, yes, black people live in countries where it snows. Second, yes, if these games celebrate the athletes of the world it seems weird that a very major segment of the world population is getting left out. Third, no, Gumbel didn't say that there should be no Winter Olympics, merely that the games are a cynical cash-in.
post #14 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
And doesn't the USA have a World Series where only American teams take part?

Shuuutt up. That way we always win.


But that's why we made the World Baseball "Classic" where we can see our country getting it's ass royally kicked by a Latin American nation.
post #15 of 91
I watched Curling for 2 minutes the other day and almost ENDED IT ALL.

Olympic fever, Catch it!

post #16 of 91
post #17 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
First off, yes, black people live in countries where it snows. Second, yes, if these games celebrate the athletes of the world it seems weird that a very major segment of the world population is getting left out. Third, no, Gumbel didn't say that there should be no Winter Olympics, merely that the games are a cynical cash-in.
But let me raise a question.

If the said black population is not practicing winter sports as a mass, how come we expect them to participate in competitions, let alone in Olympics ?
post #18 of 91
If Gumbel doesn't like the Olympics that's fine, but it's lame to drag in the irrelevant issue of race.

And how come the only ethnicity he mentions is blacks? I guess he's blind to the Asians kicking ass in the skating events.
post #19 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
It's this weird thing people have been brainwashed into accepting. I mean, snowboarding? Figure skating? Give me a break.
But wait, couldn't we say the same thing about the long jump, or gymnastics? I mean, who cares about any of it, not just the winter ones? The Luge has to be the most simplest form of sport in the world. You go flying down this course, and the one with the fastest time wins.
post #20 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desslar
If Gumbel doesn't like the Olympics that's fine, but it's lame to drag in the irrelevant issue of race.

And how come the only ethnicity he mentions is blacks? I guess he's blind to the Asians kicking ass in the skating events.

What the fuck? He's talking about a race NOT represented. This is not rocket science.
post #21 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
First off, yes, black people live in countries where it snows. Second, yes, if these games celebrate the athletes of the world it seems weird that a very major segment of the world population is getting left out. Third, no, Gumbel didn't say that there should be no Winter Olympics, merely that the games are a cynical cash-in.
First Off: I didn't say Black people don't live in countries that have snow. I said countries that have snow are made up majorally by native Caucasians. Blame the wide-world of evolution for that.

Second: It doesn't seem weird to me that because of geographic, economic or cultural situations, Black athletes choose not to compete in specific sports. Do you think it behoves us to make affirmative action quotas so they become represented?

Third: So is basically every other type of sport on the planet. People compete because of their love of a sport. It gets broadcast based on the appeal of that sport to mass audiences by way of advertisers.

I agree probably over 50% of the Oylmpic sports really have no appeal other than being part of the spectacle that is the Oylmpics itself. The Oylmpics itself has appeal for the "Us" vs. "Them" mentality uniting countries against other countries. Race really seems to have no weight in regards to that.
post #22 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Jones
But wait, couldn't we say the same thing about the long jump, or gymnastics?
Not the best examples, given that they're both competitions in which human strength and agility are the only things being tested. The Luge, on the other hand, well, you go flying down this course, and the one with the fastest time wins. That's not a sport, it's an episode of Jackass.
post #23 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Jones
But wait, couldn't we say the same thing about the long jump, or gymnastics? I mean, who cares about any of it, not just the winter ones? The Luge has to be the most simplest form of sport in the world. You go flying down this course, and the one with the fastest time wins.

I would argue that the long jump is a human accomplishment. The luge is sitting in a tube.
post #24 of 91
Yeah, but there's nothing in the Summer Games that can compare to downhill skiers crashing while going 80 MPH. The only thing that comes close is when someone cracks their skull on the diving board.

I think it says a lot for the Olympics when the guy who won the gold medal for the 5K skating didn't even participate in the sport until a couple years ago. Getting drunk at a blackjack table, he decides that he can do that, and then proceeds to be the best in the world. There must be a lot of competition out there.
post #25 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
Not the best examples, given that they're both competitions in which human strength and agility are the only things being tested. The Luge, on the other hand, well, you go flying down this course, and the one with the fastest time wins. That's not a sport, it's an episode of Jackass.
Wait in 2008. Bowling is coming.

Bowling...
post #26 of 91
Jay Mohr had a great story I caught on a local radio interview with him. He and some buddies got hammered and decided to go Curling. They ended up in a rink with the Canadian national team, and challenged them. They lost, 3-1, but scoring 1 point against an Oylmpic team without having ever played shows why that "sport" has no place at the Oymplics.
post #27 of 91
Anyway his argument is ridiculous. Is the integrity of college basketball somehow compromised by the scarcity of Indian players for example? Unless he can prove that there are black athletes who are among the world's best in winter olympic events but yet for some reason denied the opportunity to join their countries' teams then his rant has little merit indeed.

Perhaps the truth is he just can't relate to events dominated by other ethnic groups. That's not too hard to understand. Doesn't stop me from watching March Madness (or sumo), but different strokes.
post #28 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
Not the best examples, given that they're both competitions in which human strength and agility are the only things being tested.
Yes, like snowboarding and figure skating. I guess I don't understand the criticisms. And I know Luge is straightforward, that's my point. Gumbel said something about commentators not understanding it: the sport couldn't be simpler.
post #29 of 91
Well, what does it say when the best thing on the Winter Olympics is the snowboarding or any other X-Games type sports?
post #30 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desslar
Anyway his argument is ridiculous. Is the integrity of college basketball somehow compromised by the scarcity of Indian players for example? Unless he can prove that there are black athletes who are among the world's best in winter olympic events but yet for some reason denied the opportunity to join their countries' teams then his rant has little merit indeed.

Perhaps the truth is he just can't relate to events dominated by other ethnic groups. That's not too hard to understand. Doesn't stop me from watching March Madness (or sumo), but different strokes.
Does college basketball pretend to be the world's game? Does it have the basic concept that all the people of the world get together to play in it? How is this basic concept eluding you?
post #31 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Jay Mohr had a great story I caught on a local radio interview with him. He and some buddies got hammered and decided to go Curling. They ended up in a rink with the Canadian national team, and challenged them. They lost, 3-1, but scoring 1 point against an Oylmpic team without having ever played shows why that "sport" has no place at the Oymplics.
you and the almighty jay mohr (a comic who try's to be a sports journalist) are obviously uneducated about curling. jay mohr probably played 1 end and seeing how his team had 1 rock in the rings compared to the canadians 3 (which were also closer to the button), he automatically assumed his team scored a point and lost the game 3-1 (curling isn't soccer!). once you actually sit down and watch an entire game, which i doubt you and the almighty jay mohr have ever done in your lifetimes, come talk to me.
post #32 of 91
Every single one of the major Winter Olympic events requires expensive equipment (skates and skis are not cheap). It doesn't take any equipment to run and jump. From an economic standpoint, it's no wonder the Winter Games are as white as they are -- most of the sports cater to rich white people.
post #33 of 91
They are not racist comments. Bryant Gumble is Really a white guy.
post #34 of 91
Sliding down an ice tube, I give you - but the skill, strength and athleticism involved in figure-skating is in a different league to 95% of 'summer' Olympian field sports.*



*I just posted in a thread defending, nay, lauding the athletic validity of figure-skating. I have no idea what has happened to me, but I begrudgingly embrace it.
post #35 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by heLL pAso
you and the almighty jay mohr (a comic who try's to be a sports journalist) are obviously uneducated about curling. jay mohr probably played 1 end and seeing how his team had 1 rock in the rings compared to the canadians 3 (which were also closer to the button), he automatically assumed his team scored a point and lost the game 3-1 (curling isn't soccer!). once you actually sit down and watch an entire game, which i doubt you and the almighty jay mohr have ever done in your lifetimes, come talk to me.
I've seen an entire game, and the movie "Men with Brooms". It still isn't a sport. Be thankful you guys have Hockey, touchy Canuck.
post #36 of 91
I'd like to see the people discounting the luge actually try it sometime.
post #37 of 91
Speed Skating, Hockey, Bobsledding, and some of the ski events. These are the things that come to mind in which A. Require skill and athletic prowess. B. Can be judged quantitatively. There will be winners or losers based on time or points actually accrued.
post #38 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
And doesn't the USA have a World Series where only American teams take part?
The 2 time World Series Champion Toronto Blue Jays would disagree with you.

Not watching the Olympics PTI discussed the Chinese pairs figure skating team that took a tumble and went off the ice to heal up in mid competition. They were allowed back in and won the Silver. Bode Miller ski's drunk and the snowboarders do it stoned. The Winter Olympics are a joke and so is Bryant Gumble.
post #39 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
I'd like to see the people discounting the luge actually try it sometime.
Yeah, if it's so easy how come the U.S. doesn't have a huge pile of gold medals?
post #40 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desslar
Yeah, if it's so easy how come the U.S. doesn't have a huge pile of gold medals?
Because America's best prospects are busy practising for the Daytona 500?
post #41 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Every single one of the major Winter Olympic events requires expensive equipment (skates and skis are not cheap). It doesn't take any equipment to run and jump. From an economic standpoint, it's no wonder the Winter Games are as white as they are -- most of the sports cater to rich white people.
You're marginalizing those athletes who lived on a shoe-string in "minor" sports for years with no hope of a professional career. However, even if your explanation as to why we're seeing a preponderance of whites and asians in the winter olympics is valid, it still begs the issue as to whether Gumbel's comments were insensitive and/or appropriate.

It seems to me that Gumbel is essentially saying that: "if those of African descent aren't involved in Event "A", than Event "A" is not a world class athletic event and/or does not include world class athletes". I'm surprised more people don't think this comment smacks of racism. A statement like this has several unspoken assumptions underlying it: for example, the assumption that blacks would be proportionately represented in any sporting event if they are given equal access and funding. That assumption not only sounds racist and elitist, but it hasn't shown itself to be universally true; swimming and weight-training being two examples. He should simply admit he's being prejudiced or he should back up his statement.

Let's reverse Gumbel's comments so that they are derogatory towards blacks. If Gumbel was discussing an all-black university that was purporting to be an international center of learning, and he said: "don't tell me that this is a world-class academic institution when there is no one of Ashkenazic/Jewish or South-East Asian descent enrolled in the English, Physics, Mathematics, or Biology Departments" would people be more upset? I think they would.

I think that if nothing else, he was being remarkably insensitive and careless about his choice of words. Didn't the Air Force football coach get in trouble for basically saying the same thing?



As for the discussion about how lame many of the Olympic sports are: I agree, I find most of them to be inane. However, I don't consider my personal tastes to be an appropriate arbiter of what is and what is not a worthy Olympic event.
post #42 of 91
No one said it was easy to be good at The Luge. However, it's not an athletic event. It's sledding.
post #43 of 91
A luger isn't just sitting back and enjoying the ride, he's steering and banking and exerting a hell of a lot of effort.

And Overlord, I don't agree with Gumbel's stance. What I'm saying is the reality is little kids in Kenya don't grow up dreaming about being a champion figure skater or downhill skier, and many minorities in more affluent nations simply can't afford to participate in many of the other winter sports. It's not a matter of active exclusion.
post #44 of 91
Overlord walked right into Jimmy the Greek territory there.
post #45 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
A luger isn't just sitting back and enjoying the ride, he's steering and banking and exerting a hell of a lot of effort.
Laying on a sled and steering it takes a lot of effort? No.

It takes a lot of skill to steer a sled going 80 MPH, not effort.
post #46 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Overlord walked right into Jimmy the Greek territory there.
By pointing out how racially insensitive his comments are? What the hell are you talking about?
post #47 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
A luger isn't just sitting back and enjoying the ride, he's steering and banking and exerting a hell of a lot of effort.

And Overlord, I don't agree with Gumbel's stance. What I'm saying is the reality is little kids in Kenya don't grow up dreaming about being a champion figure skater or downhill skier, and many minorities in more affluent nations simply can't afford to participate in many of the other winter sports. It's not a matter of active exclusion.
Gumbel's comments weren't about the lack of opportunities for minorities, it was about the winter olympics not including "world-class athletes" because of the "paucity" of Blacks.

You can re-word your comments so that they apply to just about ANY sport. Sports do not disperse themselves equally in terms of interest across the globe, and these types of generalizations are irrelevant and unfair, particularly when you add race into the equation.
post #48 of 91
By bringing physiology into it.

Also, your argument remains fundamentally retarded. From the top: The Olympics are about the best atheletes in the world. Unlike a black university, which is about the best black students and faculty. See the difference? Black people are, last I checked, part of the world. When he says world-class, he doesn't mean it in some bullshit conversational or hyperbolic way. The Olympics are supposed to be the best in the world. Blacks make up a significant number of people in the world.
post #49 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
By bringing physiology into it.

Also, your argument remains fundamentally retarded. From the top: The Olympics are about the best atheletes in the world. Unlike a black university, which is about the best black students and faculty. See the difference? Black people are, last I checked, part of the world. When he says world-class, he doesn't mean it in some bullshit conversational or hyperbolic way. The Olympics are supposed to be the best in the world. Blacks make up a significant number of people in the world.
I didn't bring physiology "into it", Gumbel did. At least, that was my extrapolation from his comments. If you disagree with my interpretation, fine, discuss that. I like the unspoken presumption in your comments that the "best athletes" for any particular athletic event should include blacks. Why does the fact that "blacks make up a significant number of people in the world" have any bearing on whether or not they should be represented in a particular winter olympic event?

Your analysis as to why my analogy is "fundamentally retarded" is pretty ludicrous.

Basically, Gumbel is saying that the winter olympics aren't "world-class" athletically speaking because there are an insufficient number of blacks competing: that sounds racist to me, and if we applied his comments to an academic setting you'd probably agree.

If a black university calls itself a "world class institution", rather than a "world class black institution", it is placing itself on par with other, integrated, universities that may be "world-class". That is directly akin to the situation we're facing here according to Gumbel's world-view. The Olympics are supposed to be "the best in the world" and a purported "world-class" college is supposed to be among the "best in the world". If you said that the black college could not be academically "world-class" because it only included blacks, who are only "part of the world", you'd rightly be called out for having made a racist comment. The same logic applies to Gumbel.
post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Laying on a sled and steering it takes a lot of effort? No.

It takes a lot of skill to steer a sled going 80 MPH, not effort.
You're right, laying perfectly flat and aerodynamic and leaning into turns and maintaining your balance requires no effort whatsoever.
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