CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPECIFIC FILMS › Films in Release or On Video › MIDNIGHT COWBOY discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MIDNIGHT COWBOY discussion

post #1 of 13
2/24/06 at 4:12pm
Thread Starter 
This came out on a new DVD this week, for those of who watch films made before 1980.

It's almost astonishing how good and simple this film is. It's a small film with a small scope about people on the fringe of society, but the emotional impact is stunning. Also, despite it's supposed "edgy" content, this probably one of the most humane films ever produced. There is no character in this film, major or minor, that is villified or judged.

I found this particularly important when it came to the depiction of homosexuals in the film. The scene between Bob Balaban and Voight which caused so much controversy is also one of the most desperate and maddingly sad portions of the film. We know little about Balaban's character, but it says volumes about him since he openly risks physical harm just so he can find comfort with another man. This is far from the stereotypical portrayal of gays that pervaded for so long. One could even make the argument that DOG DAY AFTERNOON, another groundbreaking film, bows to societal conceptions of homosexuals.

All this is on top of the phenomenal performances, of course. This is really a one of a kind film.
Reply
post #2 of 13
2/24/06 at 6:53pm
Simply love this movie. The theme from this movie moves me to near tears whenever I hear it, it's that haunting.
Reply
post #3 of 13
2/24/06 at 8:20pm
I saw it based on its reputation, and it's good. But I think I appreciated it more for how edgy it is given 1969 than I did the actual story and characters. I liked Rizzo's fantasies and the offbeat nature of the whole thing, but it didn't really strike me beyond a sort of nostalgic shock value.
Reply
post #4 of 13
2/24/06 at 9:38pm
What were the flashback sequences with his mother(?) all about? I haven't seen the film in a long time but I remember they were pretty disturbing.
Reply
post #5 of 13
2/24/06 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werbal_Kint
This came out on a new DVD this week, for those of who watch films made before 1980.

It's almost astonishing how good and simple this film is. It's a small film with a small scope about people on the fringe of society, but the emotional impact is stunning. Also, despite it's supposed "edgy" content, this probably one of the most humane films ever produced. There is no character in this film, major or minor, that is villified or judged.

I found this particularly important when it came to the depiction of homosexuals in the film. The scene between Bob Balaban and Voight which caused so much controversy is also one of the most desperate and maddingly sad portions of the film. We know little about Balaban's character, but it says volumes about him since he openly risks physical harm just so he can find comfort with another man. This is far from the stereotypical portrayal of gays that pervaded for so long. One could even make the argument that DOG DAY AFTERNOON, another groundbreaking film, bows to societal conceptions of homosexuals.

All this is on top of the phenomenal performances, of course. This is really a one of a kind film.
I would disagree in that the film shows Balaban to be such a desperate loser that not only does he risk harm, he likes it. He's a degenerate.
Reply
post #6 of 13
2/25/06 at 12:34am
Having seen it for the first time only a couple of years ago, I was actually a bit disappointed. Maybe it's just that, taken out of the context of its time, when it was admittedly ground-breaking and contraversial, it has less to offer a modern audience. The relationship between Voight and Hoffman still works extremely well, but everything else comes off as an unwelcome detour.

And I agree with Devin; that was in no way a sympathetic portrait of a gay man. It sounds a little like you saw what you wanted to see.
Reply
post #7 of 13
2/25/06 at 12:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
I would disagree in that the film shows Balaban to be such a desperate loser that not only does he risk harm, he likes it. He's a degenerate.
See, I didn't quite see it that way. The old man later in the motel is certainly asking for physical abuse, but I saw Balaban's character as really more sad than anything. I'll go back and watch it again, but I didn't find him to be neccesarily depraved.

But isn't the film asking us about how we evaulate supposedly depraved individuals? You could easily say Rizzo or Joe (Rizzo being a con and a cheat and Joe being a whore) are depraved human beings, but it challenges us to understand their situation and their motivations. I think if anything the movie is nonjudgmental and asks us if we can't be the same way.

Quote:
What were the flashback sequences with his mother(?) all about? I haven't seen the film in a long time but I remember they were pretty disturbing.
They're ambiguous because they're so choppy, but to me they seem to hint on a complex, unhealthy relationship. Though I wouldn't call it incestuous, it seems evident that their relationship was more physically free than a grandma-grandson relationship should be (i.e. him being in bed while his grandma and her lover get drunk). But it's also obvious that she was a rock of stability in Joe's life, since the first place he comes home to after his stint in the service is her home.

It seems more that she greatly influenced Joe's perspective about what women need, namely a strong and continuous sexual fulfilment. This presents the argument that his friendship with Rizzo is the first intimate relationship he's had with anyone because it isn't predicated on sex.
Reply
post #8 of 13
2/25/06 at 2:33am
Did y'all know the "Hey, I''m walkin' here!" scene was improvised? The taxi that just about hits Rizzo (Dustin Hoffman) was not planned and his reaction was so good, Schlesinger left it in the film.

Also, Rizzo the Rat from The Muppet Show is based on Hoffman's character.
Reply
post #9 of 13
2/25/06 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
Sadly, I'd wager more people would recognize the puppet than the film.
Reply
post #10 of 13
2/25/06 at 10:31pm
I need to watch it again - haven't seen it in about two years - but I think that the film isn't about depraved people. Joe Buck isn't depraved, and while Rizzo is, Joe in many ways saves him. Dying on the bus is better than dying in New York City for him.
Reply
post #11 of 13
2/25/06 at 11:10pm
It's been a while since I have seen this film as well. I need to add it to my Netflix queue.
Reply
post #12 of 13
2/26/06 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
Well, at it's core is redemption and maturation. Redemption for Rizzo and maturation for Buck, since he eventually pitches the bullshit dream and decides to do something real.

I could be wrong about the depiction of Buck's customers, but I think there's an appreciable difference between what the film depicts and what it wants us to think about.
Reply
post #13 of 13
5/9/11 at 7:13pm

Making my way through AFI's Top 100 and just watched this for the first time. This is a very engrossing film, and it's obvious to me now just how influential it's been on cinema as a whole these last fourty years. Not only the "I'm walking here!" scene, but the overall feel and atmosphere, and use of music, have a real Indie vibe to them.

 

The focus on the plain and "depraved" (by 1969 standards) without judgment was very fascinating. I'm impressed that the movie was so willing to explore the connection between Joe and Ratso, hinting at homosexuality without shying away.

 

Moreso than just redemption and maturation, this movie is dealing with power dynamics. When Joe arrives in New York he thinks he's a hot commodity, but very quickly the women (and men) he thought he could seduce use him for money. Ratso very quickly (after taking advantage of him) develops a seemingly maternal bond with Joe: he's the one in the know, yes, but he's also making dinner for Joe and watching over him. By the end of the movie, however, Joe is taking care of Ratso. That's an impressive degree of trust, considering Ratso was never willing to take handouts (from Bellevue, the police, or generous hipster artists).

 

Joe's flashbacks were what struck me the most. When his girlfriend is being raped (what was that all about anyway?), was Joe raped as well? There's that shot of the Grandma shoving a catheter up Joe's butt at the same time Joe is being forced up against a car. If Joe's uncomfortable relationship defines his feelings about what women need, what does the rape of his girlfriend (and possibly of himself) mean?

 

Finally, did he kill the old man in the hotel room?!

 

Very good flick, loved it.

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Films in Release or On Video
CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPECIFIC FILMS › Films in Release or On Video › MIDNIGHT COWBOY discussion