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The Best of BOND; Let's get this over with - Page 323

post #16101 of 16621
I have no issue with the Thomas Newman score, but I do think one instance that could have been better was right when the snow planed crashed through that house on the hill the Bond theme should have blasted, much like when Bond was able to stable the helicopter in the PTS.

I don't mind the reused cues either, as they're only sparingly done and only used in the right context like with the flirty music when Moneypenny shows up and the ghostly music that hints of Bond's past when looking at the back of Blofeld. Newman is scoring this more as a direct sequel as if it's a saga with continuing themes, rather than being exclusively new cues as the past films often did (aside from Vesper's theme in QOS).
post #16102 of 16621
There should have been cutaways to the terrorist attacks SPECTRE conducted. Stuff like relegating it to being shown on a computer screen or Q showing Bond news broadcasts on the TV may be a cleaner way of doing it but it's not as impactful. Mendes should know better because he did it better the last time! SKYFALL got that right by showing MI6 blow up, imagine if we only found out when Bond sees the CNN broadcast on TV?

As MichealM would say "not effective".
post #16103 of 16621
It's probably the only instance we see Bond requesting his tuxedo to be pressed, as we typically see Bond not carrying any luggage when traveling the world, we just assume he has it all taken care of. That doesn't explain where the hell Madeline got her dress, but looking at her in it I don't care how or why since she looks stunning in it!



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post #16104 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I don't mind the reused cues either, as they're only sparingly done and only used in the right context like with the flirty music when Moneypenny shows up and the ghostly music that hints of Bond's past when looking at the back of Blofeld. Newman is scoring this more as a direct sequel as if it's a saga with continuing themes, rather than being exclusively new cues as the past films often did (aside from Vesper's theme in QOS).

I don't have an issue with the reused cues in the context of the film, though they make for a less satisfying listen on the album.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

It's probably the only instance we see Bond requesting his tuxedo to be pressed, as we typically see Bond not carrying any luggage when traveling the world, we just assume he has it all taken care of. That doesn't explain where the hell Madeline got her dress, but looking at her in it I don't care how or why since she looks stunning in it!

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I don't particularly like (or dislike) the character, but not too many women in this series have ever looked quite this strikingly beautiful.  Had the character been better written, and the movie more universally praised (on the level of SKYFALL, say), I think this may have become an iconic "Bond Girl" moment.

post #16105 of 16621
Overall, I still like it, as far as middle of the road Bond films go. Not great after the amazing SKYFALL, but it's kind of wonderful that Craig actually has two films that are touted among as the series' best, which none of the actors between Connery and Craig can truly claim.

I paid attention more to the ending and Craig Bond leaving the service. They really do leave it open ended, never explicitly saying he quit. B25 could actually begin in either scenario and it wouldn't necessarily contradict SPECTRE's ending. I know enough behind the scenes stuff that suggests how haphazard the script was because it seemed nobody could really agree on anything which is why this film is ultimately middling.

So, RANKING! And RATING! 1-5 points but only relative to Craig's run:

SKYFALL - 5
CASINO ROYALE 4
SPECTRE - 3
QUANTUM OF SOLACE - 1

Truth be told, I rather watch SP than CR just because its classier and Craig is more Bondian and less thuggish. I honestly do not care for that Bond Begins thing with Bond learning stuff he should have in his 20s. I'd been happier with it as a more straight up adaptation with Bond already in his element.
post #16106 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Overall, I still like it, as far as middle of the road Bond films go. Not great after the amazing SKYFALL, but it's kind of wonderful that Craig actually has two films that are touted among as the series' best, which none of the actors between Connery and Craig can truly claim.

 

Moore had both TSWLM and FYEO, both of which are held in high regard.

 

Personally, I would take most of Moore's era and Dalton's over the latter-half of Connery's.

post #16107 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

It's probably the only instance we see Bond requesting his tuxedo to be pressed, as we typically see Bond not carrying any luggage when traveling the world, we just assume he has it all taken care of. That doesn't explain where the hell Madeline got her dress, but looking at her in it I don't care how or why since she looks stunning in it!

 

A pity Madeline is such a flat character. She and Bond have zero chemistry together. The audience in my theater just laughed when Bond says he loves her.

 

The Dave Bautista Train fight is aces though.

post #16108 of 16621
You mean when she says she loves him? Yeah. I think the chemistry is there, but the material isn't sufficient enough to make me believe these two would fall for one another.
post #16109 of 16621

One of the few parts where Madeline feels human is in her scenes with Bond at The American. But even there i don't get any feeling that she likes him.

 

post #16110 of 16621
Yeah that relationship was a dud. I felt more between him and Belucci pressed against her bedroom wall.
post #16111 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post
 

 

Moore had both TSWLM and FYEO, both of which are held in high regard.

 

Personally, I would take most of Moore's era and Dalton's over the latter-half of Connery's.

 

I enjoy Thunderball more than others, and Mankiewicz's dialogue, St John and the elevator fight makes up for DAF's dumb plot and Connery's laziness. YOLT is a mess although the the rooftop fight sequence is aces. It is true though that Connery's reputation as the "best Bond" was pretty much built on FRWL and Goldfinger. The botching of the resolution of Blofeld in that early run is arguably just as egregious as the failings of SPECTRE.

post #16112 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

It's probably the only instance we see Bond requesting his tuxedo to be pressed, as we typically see Bond not carrying any luggage when traveling the world, we just assume he has it all taken care of. That doesn't explain where the hell Madeline got her dress, but looking at her in it I don't care how or why since she looks stunning in it!



bg030-ghost-salma-dress-spectre-madeleine-swann-lea-seydoux-636.jpg?itok=qqkTwvkR

 

This is almost willfully subjective, but SPECTRE is the first Bond film where I cannot understand the attraction Bond has towards his leading romantic interest. I get Mary Goodnight. I get Teresa Draco. I even get Pam Bouvier, despite having to fight through the bad acting to get there. Madeleine baffles me and it's one of the several holes below the waterline in SPECTRE that I found impossible to get past.

post #16113 of 16621
I can get the idea of Bond being attracted to her but only on a conceptual level and that's because I'm using Fleming as a crutch. Bond is often smitten with women who are described as "a bird with a wing down" and I can vaguely see that with Madeline, who he recognizes as someone who had a traumatic falling out with her father and since then intentionally secluded herself up in a large snow fortress. Then there are the allusions to Tracy Bond, though she is not the hot mess that Mrs Bond was shown to be in his first encounter of her.

I can get all of that, but the movie doesn't really play with it enough to make it all convincing. SPECTRE like QOS has some ideas of what it wants to do but doesn't satisfyingly deliver on them.
post #16114 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post
 

 

This is almost willfully subjective, but SPECTRE is the first Bond film where I cannot understand the attraction Bond has towards his leading romantic interest. I get Mary Goodnight. I get Teresa Draco. I even get Pam Bouvier, despite having to fight through the bad acting to get there. Madeleine baffles me and it's one of the several holes below the waterline in SPECTRE that I found impossible to get past.

I mean, I get why he'd be attracted to her on a purely physical level, but I'm with you in that I don't in any way buy a connection on any deeper level.  And given that the movie asks us to believe these two are "in love" by the end, that's a problem.  It doesn't really sink the movie for me, though.

post #16115 of 16621

When it comes to Craig's Bond I get the feeling that he's deeply attracted to women that can keep up to him mentally. As someone upthread mentioned; Craig's Bond is incredibly clever. And the women who get into his heart instead of his loins, specifically Vesper and Madeleine are the ones that can keep up with him on that level. 

 

Not saying this is characterized particularly WELL in Spectre. But it helps me rationalize it. 

post #16116 of 16621

I watched Goldfinger again last night...honestly...not my favourite. 

 

I appreciate it and certainly enjoy it a great deal. It's the first time we get a villain with a grandiose plan! First appearance of the Aston Martin! Oddjob! "I expect you to die!". All of that is fucking great.

 

But it never connects that well into a cohesive whole for me. A lot of great setpieces that never gel as well as I hope they would. It's difficult for me to put into words but I just wish I loved it as much as others did.

 

And seriously, what was the point of Tilly Masterson as a character? She's pretty much just there to get killed. The 60's misogyny in Connery's films I can usually accept as part of the times, but it's REALLY noticeable in Goldfinger. The girl at the pool in the hotel where he meets Felix is so hilariously shoved aside for "man talk" that it always makes me laugh. 

post #16117 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

When it comes to Craig's Bond I get the feeling that he's deeply attracted to women that can keep up to him mentally. As someone upthread mentioned; Craig's Bond is incredibly clever. And the women who get into his heart instead of his loins, specifically Vesper and Madeleine are the ones that can keep up with him on that level. 

 

Not saying this is characterized particularly WELL in Spectre. But it helps me rationalize it. 

 

Oh, completely with respect to Vesper. The whole romance in Casino Royale from the train scene onwards is infinitely better written than SPECTRE. There is an in-movie narrative to their courtship in the former that makes sense and provides all the information to make their relationship credible. SPECTRE not so much, and what compounds the problem is that Madeleine isn't even acted or scripted as being flirty or sexual, at least as far as I can recall. Even the most chaste Bond girl love interest I can think of - therefore excluding QOS - Kara from The Living Daylights had a clearer vulnerability presented in the story as well as a sensuality represented by the fact she was a musician.

 

I am being very subjective though. I don't find Lea Seydoux appealing or engaging in any way, so I might be rationalising to avoid acknowledging my make gaze isn't particularly attracted to her.

post #16118 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

I watched Goldfinger again last night...honestly...not my favourite. 

 

I appreciate it and certainly enjoy it a great deal. It's the first time we get a villain with a grandiose plan! First appearance of the Aston Martin! Oddjob! "I expect you to die!". All of that is fucking great.

 

But it never connects that well into a cohesive whole for me. A lot of great setpieces that never gel as well as I hope they would. It's difficult for me to put into words but I just wish I loved it as much as others did.

 

And seriously, what was the point of Tilly Masterson as a character? She's pretty much just there to get killed. The 60's misogyny in Connery's films I can usually accept as part of the times, but it's REALLY noticeable in Goldfinger. The girl at the pool in the hotel where he meets Felix is so hilariously shoved aside for "man talk" that it always makes me laugh. 

Not to mention screwing Pussy straight.

 

The bum slap aside, I much prefer the film up to the Aston chase than anything that comes afterwards. It sort of loses gas once he gets captured, even though there is the famous laser scene. The big set piece facing off against Oddjob and the ticking clock at the end is pretty good, though

 

ETA Tilly's role is very different in the novel, although arguably even more "problematic"!

post #16119 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post
 

Not to mention screwing Pussy straight.

Another sentence you don't see every day.

post #16120 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Another sentence you don't see every day.

 

Don't you?

post #16121 of 16621
Safe to say that if GOLDFINGER were much more strictly faithful to the novel that it wouldn't be as fondly looked back on.
post #16122 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I mean, I get why he'd be attracted to her on a purely physical level, but I'm with you in that I don't in any way buy a connection on any deeper level.  And given that the movie asks us to believe these two are "in love" by the end, that's a problem.  It doesn't really sink the movie for me, though.

 That was one of my many problems with Spectre. Other than being attractive people in a Bond movie, I didn't see why they would be in love and Bond would quit MI6 for her. That ending doesn't mean anything since the audience knows it won't last because there will be sequels.

post #16123 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
That ending doesn't mean anything since the audience knows it won't last because there will be sequels.

That's certainly true.  I think the intention of the ending being that Bond's quit is legitimately ill-conceived.

 

And I think they even knew this, as they left it just ambiguous enough to be easily rectonned or flat-out ignored in the next one if they want to.

post #16124 of 16621
Yeah, I kind of can't stand the ending to the last few Bonds.
post #16125 of 16621

 I'm fine with the ending to Skyfall; a reinvigorated Bond is ready willing and able to work again.

post #16126 of 16621

I think the SPECTRE ending sorta works if we you assume its Craig's last Bond film.

post #16127 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post

Yeah, I kind of can't stand the ending to the last few Bonds.

I think SKYFALL's ending is fantastic.  It's basically the franchise saying, "Okay, we're done with the big, personal stakes.  Classic Bond is back, so let's get on with business."

 

Of course SPECTRE proceeds to undo that with another personal story.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
 

I think the SPECTRE ending sorta works if we you assume its Craig's last Bond film.

It might work conceptually, but I still don't like it, as it basically suggests the intention for the next Bond actor would be for another reboot.  I'd like the next Bond to take over in this same continuity, or at least have nothing actively contradict the continuity.  Ignore certain things, sure (like the Blofeld relationship, certainly), but I really don't want to start all over again, especially not when the supporting roles for M, Q, and Moneypenny are finally firmly in place and embodied by good actors.

 

CASINO ROYALE was the one hard break.  It worked terrifically, but we don't need another.  Audiences know the drill, and will accept the new actor stepping in without having to make a big deal about it.

post #16128 of 16621
I just wish I knew with what sort of perspective I should watch Skyfall.

The three times I have seen it I do not enjoy it.

Some elements are there that I can garner enjoyment from, but as a whole, nothing.

Someone, anyone, how should I view Skyfall?
post #16129 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post

I think SKYFALL's ending is fantastic.  It's basically the franchise saying, "Okay, we're done with the big, personal stakes.  Classic Bond is back, so let's get on with business."

Of course SPECTRE proceeds to undo that with another personal story.

Even stranger, a personal story that Bond doesn't seem to take personally! I feel like that's Craig trying to rebel the story in favor of playing the whole thing like a standard mission. He's so nonchalant about all of it, that's why it's easy for me to brush off that whole foster brother angle. If Bond can't take it seriously, why should I?
post #16130 of 16621
And the eacape from Blofelds lair was supposed to be played for laughs, right?

Like as a throwback to all the Connery era finales?

Absolutely zero threat of real danger when it came to dispatching the minions, then that explosion...

I wasn't feeling it. It felt TOO much like a 60s era Bond. YOLT or Thunderball style.
post #16131 of 16621

 I was too bored by that escape to laugh at it. It just looked too easy for Bond.

post #16132 of 16621
I think future generations will call Craig's run The Resignation Years. Hasn't he resigned, threatened to or been struck off in everyone of his films?

Bit tired of that now. Sure each actor wants to portray the world-weary Bond, but can we just get back to the fun?
post #16133 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

 I was too bored by that escape to laugh at it. It just looked too easy for Bond.

Exactly.

It felt like I was watching a Broadway stage production of a Bond film. So over-orchestrated.

Then the explosion, they stop and look, breathe it in, "ok, let's go!!"
post #16134 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

I think future generations will call Craig's run The Resignation Years. Hasn't he resigned, threatened to or been struck off in everyone of his films?

Bit tired of that now. Sure each actor wants to portray the world-weary Bond, but can we just get back to the fun?

It's this weird modern concern that Bond can't actually be a full-on, loyal government agent because the masses don't trust the government, especially intelligence. 

 

So since Die Another Day (a movie released in 2002 that was concerned with taking Bond off the board for 15 months so the question of 9/11 could be avoided) we get Bond constantly rebelling and going outside the system. Because the system is bad. Except that Bond is really working for the system, just without the system's help, because he knows what the system needs more than the system itself.

 

A weird juggling act.

post #16135 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post

Then the explosion, they stop and look, breathe it in, "ok, let's go!!"

 

That explosion looked really good onscreen though.

post #16136 of 16621
It looked great. That's why they looked.
post #16137 of 16621
Can someone explain to me how Bond knew there would be a net to land in when he jumped off the ledge holding Madeline in the climax?
post #16138 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post

Can someone explain to me how Bond knew there would be a net to land in when he jumped off the ledge holding Madeline in the climax?
It's not communicated very clearly but when Bond first enters the old MI6 headquarters he looks up and sees the net 10-15 feet (give or take) above him..
post #16139 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

It's this weird modern concern that Bond can't actually be a full-on, loyal government agent because the masses don't trust the government, especially intelligence. 

So since Die Another Day (a movie released in 2002 that was concerned with taking Bond off the board for 15 months so the question of 9/11 could be avoided) we get Bond constantly rebelling and going outside the system. Because the system is bad. Except that Bond is really working for the system, just without the system's help, because he knows what the system needs more than the system itself.

A weird juggling act.

Yeah, there's been this sort trend of an anti-authority streak in a lot of movie heroes since the new millennium, with Jason Bourne being the most extreme example. For me the worst is Kirk specifically in the two Abrams films. Oh sure, he'd famously gone rogue in SEARCH FOR SPOCK, but that was always a big exception and more of selfless act on his part. The way they write him in ST09 and STID, I really don't get WHY he would bother with joining a military NASA aside from the fact that his daddy did that. He's just too much of a roguish goof with the hormones of a 15 year old.

Probably why some people apparently seemed less enamored with him in BEYOND because he was played more seriously as commanding officer rather than the younger hot shot breaking the rules. People want more Starlord than Kirk.
post #16140 of 16621

You know who should play a Bond Villain? 

 

 

post #16141 of 16621
Naw man....the Inquisitor from Silence. I would love to see him get a crack at a villain like that..
post #16142 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post


Even stranger, a personal story that Bond doesn't seem to take personally! I feel like that's Craig trying to rebel the story in favor of playing the whole thing like a standard mission. He's so nonchalant about all of it, that's why it's easy for me to brush off that whole foster brother angle. If Bond can't take it seriously, why should

 

That was so weird. Like, WHY even go there if nothing would be done with it. They could literally take it out of the movie and it would not change a single thing outside a few lines of dialogue.

 

Anyway I recently read VARGR, that was one awesome Bond story. Violent as hell to boot. I greatly appreciate how they took pretty much the same concept as Robert Carlyle in The World Is Not Enough and did it way more interestingly in Masters. 

Oh, and speaking of villains, I'd love to see another "Red Grant" style evil Agent that Bond could go up against and change the dynamic up by making said Agent a woman...preferably played by someone like Anne Hathaway.

post #16143 of 16621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post

I just wish I knew with what sort of perspective I should watch Skyfall.

The three times I have seen it I do not enjoy it.

Some elements are there that I can garner enjoyment from, but as a whole, nothing.

Someone, anyone, how should I view Skyfall?

 

Lately I quite enjoy it as a stealthy return to formula:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
 

 

The end of Casino Royale, Quantum, and Skyfall all were designed to say "we're gonna get a proper Bond adventure next time." It's frustrating.

 

FWIW, Skyfall maps pretty nicely onto a traditional Bond adventure in a lot of ways.

 

Flirting with Moneypenny on his way to see M:

 

 

Sent on a mission from M's office:

Meeting with Q branch to pick up gadgets:

 

 

 

A siege at a secret lair that gets blown the hell up:

 

 

 

Etc. There's a formula Bond film stealthily hidden inside Skyfall. People grouse about the overused "going rogue" angle, but everything Bond does in Skyfall is either ordered or approved by M (even "dying" after the train fight - she essentially orders him to die by telling Moneypenny to take the shot; he complies). Wherever you stick the gunbarrel, Skyfall is the closest Craig has come to a traditional Bond adventure. 

post #16144 of 16621
Am I remembering wrong, or did Bond have two wounds in his chest while he is trying to take out the chip that's in him?

Or was he shot TWICE and they only show one?
post #16145 of 16621

Well it's not a chip - it's some uranium-cased bullet that he caught a piece of. And he's shot twice and they show both: Patrice's shrapnel gets him when he's in the digger on the train,

 

 

 

 

 

 

but then Moneypenny plugs him on the bridge.

 

But he's all scarred to hell when he's shirtless in QoS. He was new to the 00 service but it's always been indicated he's a veteran.

post #16146 of 16621
There was an official dossier of Craig Bond's service record that's very detailed, mostly just an update of Fleming Bond's bio. He was an MI6 agent for several years before being promoted to 00-agent.
post #16147 of 16621

He was also in the navy before M16

post #16148 of 16621

Hey folks, I haven't been paying attention. What's the deal with agentsands77's posts being wiped out?

post #16149 of 16621
Has he been unpersoned?!
post #16150 of 16621

Wow.  His most recent blank posts (in this thread, at least) make it appear as though he deleted the content himself.  Shame if he's gone.

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