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2006 MLB Season - Page 7

post #301 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by heLL pAso
No-mah!
God DAMN that was an amazing display by the Dodgers last night.
post #302 of 335
David Ortiz hit his 51st homer tonight. Awesome. From ESPN:

"The only other player to hit his 51st homer at Fenway Park was Mickey Mantle, who did it exactly 50 years before Ortiz."

I LOVE stats like this. Fascinating. Just like the "Elias Says" articles on ESPN.
post #303 of 335
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic
The numbers may not look all that impressive, but if theres a Pirates fan here, please, enlighten me on this topic:

What on God's green Earth could convince the Pittsburgh Pirates to give up on Oliver Perez?

A 25 year old lefty coming off of a complete game shutout against the Braves and an 11 SO performance (where he struck out 10 through the first four innings) against the Marlins a couple of nights ago.

I'd trade a team full of Xavier Nadys for a chance at an arm like that.
Because he was terrible. It's not that he wasn't very good, he was just fucking AWFUL. Perez was unbelievable two years ago, and then went in the tank for a year and a half. I wouldn't get too excited about a couple of solid outings. He'll be hurt early next year, and then take another two years to get back on track.

BTW, do you know who has the best record in the NL Central since the All-Star Break? The Pirates. Nady is a big part of that, just as Perez was a big part of the reason they were the worst team in baseball for the first three months of the season.
post #304 of 335
My thing is, how does he go from a guy that can't hit 90 on the gun on the Pirates, to a guy thats hitting 94-96 consistantly and finding the plate for the Mets?

Perhaps the Pirates just don't know what they're doing.

As for Xavier Nady being a "big part" ...

307/368/440 from a corner outfield spot with no glove at all... I don't find that to be all that impressive in the least (if you notice, thats what our backup outfielder Endy Chavez is putting up, and he plays stellar defense), and quite frankly, thats his ceiling. Also, lets not forget that Perez is still under contract for at least another year.

You don't give up on young fireballing lefthanders. The Mets, it seems, have finally learned that lesson.
post #305 of 335
Thread Starter 
You give up on fireballing lefties when they're terrible. This isn't something where he had an ERA of 4.whatever and just had a couple bad outings. The guy had an ERA well over 6 (which he still has for the Mets, BTW) and couldn't get past the fourth inning in a shitload of starts.

Seriously, you think it's the Pirates fault that all of a sudden he has a better fastball? Sitting at home for a good portion of the year will bring some life back into your arm at the end of it.

Thing is, I'm looking at Perez's stats with the Mets, and I'm having an even harder time figuring out what you're talking about. He had one shutout against a good hitting team (but also a team that strikes out a lot), but otherwise has given up at least 3 ER in no more than 5 innings in 4 his 5 Met starts. Even that great game against the Marlins he still gave up 3 runs and couldn't get into the 6th inning. He had one game where he gave up 7 in less than 4 innings. His Met ERA is 6.5.

I'm just sayin', I wouldn't blow my load over this guy quite yet.
post #306 of 335
I suppose it would help to know how he pitched for the Pirates.

The reason I'm excited is that he found his stuff.

I feel weird even saying this, but you have to look passed the numbers because there is always context. When he was down, and he was down for quite some time, he lost a ton off of his fastball. In fact, that was the most glaring thing. Heres a kid that struck out 200+ with mid 90s stuff one year and his fastball was suddenly topping out in the high 80s? Couple that with the mechanical issues he was fighting while a member of the Pirates, and the reasons for his lack of production begin to take shape.

Then he comes to the Mets and is maintaining an impressive K/9 (10.54) and has magically regained his velocity?

I look at Oliver Perez as a project, but a project with a ridiculous upside whose already shown me some promise. The thing about the Pirates moving him is, they still had control over him for at least another year, he wasn't getting paid a ton, and if all they could get is Xavier Nady... why even bother? Perez is a low risk gamble, his value is at an all time low, why cut and run? Especially when your team has no shot at the postseason anyway.
post #307 of 335
Thread Starter 
Because, believe it or not, Nady has actually helped the Pirates. Their lineup is a lot stronger than it was before he was hitting 5th in it. They've really been the best team in their division since they traded Perez away.

Thing is, you sound like one of those old scouts who bases everything on talent. Without a doubt, Perez has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in the game. However, he hasn't proven he can use it properly. Fact is, he only has one good year under his belt. The history of MLB is filled with guys like Oliver Perez who were never consistent enough to be steady performers. I see Perez as similar to Javier Vasquez. All the talent in the world, but just can't figure out how to consistently use it. He'll have a gem, but then he'll get rocked in 3 innings in his next outing and tax the bullpen for the entire next rotation. He'll have more games where he can't pitch into the 6th than he will games that he does.

Hell, maybe the fact that next year will be his contract year will entice him to figure it out. I still wouldn't trust it.
post #308 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic

I look at him as a project, but a project with a ridiculous upside. The thing about the Pirates moving him is, they still had control over him for at least another year, he wasn't getting paid a ton, and if all they could get is Xavier Nady... why even bother? Perez is a low risk gamble, his value is at an all time low, why cut and run? Especially when your team has no shot at the postseason anyway.
Indeed. Perez has the luxury of being the Mets' prospective ninth starter or so. They have plenty of time to develop him, as he's still young and still talented. As long as Rick Petersen doesn't decalre he can fix him in "ten minutes".
post #309 of 335
Giradi 0% chance to coach Marlins next year
What does this owner want? Giradi almost made the wild card with guys just up from AAA.

I'm thinking he'll be on the Northside next year.
post #310 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel
I'm thinking he'll be on the Northside next year.
If there's any justice in baseball, he will. Bittersweet from my perspective. Would've liked for him to succeed Torre.
post #311 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Because, believe it or not, Nady has actually helped the Pirates. Their lineup is a lot stronger than it was before he was hitting 5th in it. They've really been the best team in their division since they traded Perez away.

Thing is, you sound like one of those old scouts who bases everything on talent. Without a doubt, Perez has the talent to be one of the best pitchers in the game. However, he hasn't proven he can use it properly. Fact is, he only has one good year under his belt. The history of MLB is filled with guys like Oliver Perez who were never consistent enough to be steady performers. I see Perez as similar to Javier Vasquez. All the talent in the world, but just can't figure out how to consistently use it. He'll have a gem, but then he'll get rocked in 3 innings in his next outing and tax the bullpen for the entire next rotation. He'll have more games where he can't pitch into the 6th than he will games that he does.

Hell, maybe the fact that next year will be his contract year will entice him to figure it out. I still wouldn't trust it.
I don't really trust him yet either. However I agree with Monk he has major upside and giving up Nady wasn't really a hell of alot seeing they had Miledge and the went out and got Green. Green's big salary really isnt a issue for the Mets because they dont mind spending cash. So they replaced Nady and took a chance on a guy with talent when their pitching staff was in shambles hopefully he can give them some quality innings.
post #312 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel
Giradi 0% chance to coach Marlins next year
What does this owner want? Giradi almost made the wild card with guys just up from AAA.

I'm thinking he'll be on the Northside next year.
Thats a bloody shame. He did a fantastic job for them. Someone should fire the owner its brutal how he dismantled the Marlins to save a few bucks.
post #313 of 335
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wease
I don't really trust him yet either. However I agree with Monk he has major upside and giving up Nady wasn't really a hell of alot seeing they had Miledge and the went out and got Green. Green's big salary really isnt a issue for the Mets because they dont mind spending cash. So they replaced Nady and took a chance on a guy with talent when their pitching staff was in shambles hopefully he can give them some quality innings.
Oh, it's still a good trade for the Mets, don't get me wrong. They didn't need Nady and got a guy with the potential to be great. I was just justifying why the Pirates would get rid of him.

I also think Perez was starting to be something of a pain in the clubhouse, though I may be wrong on that.
post #314 of 335
The funny thing about Green's salary is, the Mets are only paying something like half of it.

At first the prospect of that trade bugged me, but as time passed, and I realized that Green only had one more year left, I understood that he was little more than a security blanket.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the Mets' two other big time OF prospects (Guerra, Martinez) takes his job this time next season.

As for the Pirates perspective on the Perez deal, I'd buy the "bad clubhouse presence" far more than anything that has to do with how talented Xavier Nady is. Hes, at best, an average corner outfield bat that can't play a lick of defense.

The Pirates could have found that from within their organization, without having to give up on Perez in the process.
post #315 of 335
Thread Starter 
You're missing the point that Perez sucked, and still does on most days. He wasn't even playing for them anyways. A last place team couldn't keep him on as a 5th starter, that's how bad he was. Xavier Nady was really the best they could get, but the trade still made the Pirates better.

You're suggesting they should have kept sending out a guy who couldn't pitch more than 5 innings and usually got hammered, just because he may eventually figure it out again?

They really didn't have anyone better than Nady in their system. If they did, he'd be playing right now. Littlefield may not be a good GM, but he's smart enough to pay a minor leaguer for what an average veteran can bring. The Pirates' farm system blows.
post #316 of 335
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heLL pAso
Huff isn't crap and they're only 3.5 games out of the wild card. That's nothing.
It's time to bring this up again...

Aubrey Huff's stats with the Astros:

.233 BA, .315 OBP, .756 OPS

That OPS places him around 120th overall in MLB (however, his combined TB and Houston OPS places him at 94th). That's worse than Xavier Nady even. That .756 OPS is the 18th worst among 3rd basemen, one spot behind Tony Graffanino.
post #317 of 335
You know whats odd? Everytime I hear about Trevor Hoffman's latest achievements, he just finds a way to blow an enormous game that puts things right back into perspective.

Am I the only one who notices this?
post #318 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
It's time to bring this up again...

Aubrey Huff's stats with the Astros:

.233 BA, .315 OBP, .756 OPS

That OPS places him around 120th overall in MLB (however, his combined TB and Houston OPS places him at 94th). That's worse than Xavier Nady even. That .756 OPS is the 18th worst among 3rd basemen, one spot behind Tony Graffanino.
Yeah Huff has sucked it up but you're still the guy who says 22 HR's and 92 RBI's is "crap". And how about Huff's fielding % as a 3rd baseman? For a guy that's a "shitty" fielder his fielding % is certainly pretty idenitical to Joe Crede, the "gold glove fielder".
post #319 of 335
Fielding Percentage doesn't mean everything.

I mean, a good case in point is Barry Bonds. Heres a guy with a .989 Fielding Percentage, and I don't think anyone would say that Barry Bonds is a great defender at this point in his career. So why is Bonds' Fielding Percentage so high anyway (#6 in the National League), especially for a guy that hobbles all over the field?

Thats just it, his lack of range has almost no bearing on his Fielding Percentage.

There are far better stats out there to use, please use them (Hint: Zone Rating).
post #320 of 335
I hear where you're coming from and you're right, zone range factor definitely separates a great defensive player from a good one. I'd even put more stock into it then someone's fielding %, which can be a misleading stat but more so towards outfielders. Fielding % for infielders is probably one of the three main statistics (along with the RF and ZR) that should be considered when talking about an infielders defensive capabilities. But, don't try to make it out that it's meaningless because of a 40 year old Barry Bonds.
post #321 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic
You know whats odd? Everytime I hear about Trevor Hoffman's latest achievements, he just finds a way to blow an enormous game that puts things right back into perspective.

Am I the only one who notices this?
Yeah, maybe. Jackass!
post #322 of 335
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heLL pAso
I hear where you're coming from and you're right, zone range factor definitely separates a great defensive player from a good one. I'd even put more stock into it then someone's fielding %, which can be a misleading stat but more so towards outfielders. Fielding % for infielders is probably one of the three main statistics (along with the RF and ZR) that should be considered when talking about an infielders defensive capabilities. But, don't try to make it out that it's meaningless because of a 40 year old Barry Bonds.
Everyone except you knows fielding percentage is worthless.
post #323 of 335
Lidge pitching the 6th? I missed alot. Thought he was done as closer but atleast worth a 8th inning slot.

As for the playoffs it should be interesting if one of the smaller market/payroll teams of Detroit, Oakland, or Minnesota can knock off the Yankees. I just hope Arod gets the at bat to decide it.

Shocking that the Phillies are still in it after Abreau left. I just hope the Dodgers make it. I'd like to see Maddux and Nomar in the playoffs.
post #324 of 335
So is anyone else rooting for the Cards collapse? It's mind boggling that the Astros suck for 4/5 of the year again and still have a shot. 4 games over .500 is leading the division.

And with no Pedro anyone can win the NL for the right to lose to the AL. I'm sure Fox is hoping for Yankees/Dodgers. Would probable be the most fun match up esp if Arod chokes all through the playoffs.
post #325 of 335
I am rooting for a Cards collapse. I like Berkman and Oswalt alot. The Astros making a late run really shouldn't surprise anyone this is the 3rd year in a row they have done it. As far as the Mets go I am extremely worried. I think they should be ok to get out of the NL but it isn't a sure thing anymore. However without Pedro I can't see them beating anyone in the AL not alone the Yankees. Only chance they have is if El Duque can get some of the playoff magic to happen again or score 10 runs a game which is highly doubtful.
post #326 of 335
Pedro won, what, nine games for the Mets this year? They were without him for huge chunks of the season, and they were still winners. I dunno if they can still win the Series, but they are still certainly the class of the NL.
post #327 of 335
Read my post again Fab I said they should still probably make it out of the NL. Which in all honesty as bad as the NL is this year is not that great an accomplishment. I just dont think the can win it all without Pedro. I could carelless if they win the NL its World Series or nothing in my eyes.
post #328 of 335
post #329 of 335
Jason Grimsley. There's a blast from the past.
post #330 of 335
Not surprising Clemens is a cheat. Guy did get really good after being bad. Hope the press goes after him like Bonds.
post #331 of 335
Surprised no one metioned this yet. Pedro is out til June. He has a rotator cuff injury. This will be extremely tough to come back from at 35 years old. Looks like maybe Boston was smart not to lock him up for 4 years. Year 2 and 3 of his deal with the Mets is looking to be a bust.
post #332 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wease
Looks like maybe Boston was smart not to lock him up for 4 years.
Maybe for once they made a smart baseball decision. It's been a while since we've had one of those (how's that batting title, Freddy? How's that ROY trophy, Hanley? A no hitter you say, Anibal? Nice run, Cla! Josh Bard...gave up on him nice and quickly). Sheesh.
post #333 of 335
To be honest, it may have worked out for both teams. When Pedro Martinez became a Met, Shea suddenly became a viable destination for potential Free Agents.

As for the RedSox making a good decision by not re-signing Pedro, well, that money went to re-signing Jason Varitek and picking up Matt Clement. Neither of which appear to have worked out any better for the RedSox than the alternative in year two.
post #334 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic
To be honest, it may have worked out for both teams. When Pedro Martinez became a Met, Shea suddenly became a viable destination for potential Free Agents.

As for the RedSox making a good decision by not re-signing Pedro, well, that money went to re-signing Jason Varitek and picking up Matt Clement. Neither of which appear to have worked out any better for the RedSox than the alternative in year two.

I see your point Monk and agree having Pedro there made it alot easier to get guys like Delgado and Glavine. Personally I love that my favourtie team has my favourtie pitcher. However I thought originally 4 years was to long for a 34 year old pitcher who was losing 1-2 mph off his fastball every year. So far in this deal Pedro has had 1 great season, 1 crappy one, next year is a waste of a year. Even if he has a good year in the last year of the deal at 38 thats 2 good years for 60 million not really a fantastic deal, but hey its not my money if they can get a ring because of the free agents they signed because Pedro is a Met I guess it would be worth it.
post #335 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wease
Surprised no one metioned this yet. Pedro is out til June.
Yeah, I've been kinda drinking myself into a stupor. Thanks for reminding me.
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