Downloading TV - Convenience vs. Legality

We've all missed an episode of a show we like. Technology has marched forward, and given tech-savvy consumers ways to make sure that you almost never miss a show. VCRs, TiVo, multiple showings on the same channels, and now the double-sided coin of legal/illegal episode downloads.

I downloaded my first TV episodes illegally, back when Buffy the Vampire Slayer was not quite complete on DVD. I simply couldn't wait for season 6 to come out on DVD, or come around again on syndicated reruns. It turned out to be an easy and cost-effective way to get my Buffy fix.

I've been going back and forth on the morality/legality of downloading ever since, and things get complicated as I constructed my own personal download morality. My own personal Tom Hulce angel-on-the-shoulder will not allow me to download movies at all. I can wait for DVD if I don't want to shell out for the theater, and I can rent quickly and easily from Netflix if I don't want to shell out for the DVD. Tom Hulce devil has convinced me that as long as I *pay* for the music at Russian download sites, it's not stealing...no matter how cheap it is.

TV shows are a different story. I've been using VCR technology since the stone ages to catch shows that I normally would miss, and have graduated to TiVo, and then to DVR (only because I can tape two shows at once...not possible with the TiVo). If I miss a show, or want to see something that's not on DVD...I consider the bittorrent network something of an extended VCR.

All I want is to be able to see the show I want. But I think there's a pretty good solution. Since all the end user wants is to see the show, and the resistance to downloading is that the shows are stripped of commercials, and therefore revenue for the industry, why not throw the shows out there commercials and all for download on the same sites that offer illegal downloads? I'd rather appease my conscience and download the official file...but I can't bring myself to pay 1.99 for an episode of TV that I'm going to delete the minute I finish it.

Before you say it, I realize that there are multiple problems to this. People will strip the commercials anyway, DVD sales will falter, etc. But I think it makes sense. If the creators flood the market with high quality downloads, commercials and all, for free, it seems like it would seriously cripple the illegal TV download industry.

Thoughts?

I know, I know...anything goes in the download world, right? But you're missing the point. TV downloads are an opportunity for the beginning of a compromise between evil money-grubbing corporate content providers, and the worthless leeches out to fuck them because they can.

It can't be done with movies, it can't be done with music, but TV watchers are already willing to take in (or zip through) commercials as a part of their viewing process. That makes the internet download of TV shows an open field for the creation of a new *network*. Production companies make the content, sell the commercial space, and then put it out for people to watch. Torrent sites mean that those companies do not have to host the file, people will do it for them.

The ethical dilemma just sets the stage for the debate. Illegal downloads cannot be stopped, so why not come up with a different solution? That's what I want to discuss.

Exactly. TV exists in a weird realm now, where you can tape it, tivo it, download it. It is subject to personal piracy preferences. I'm pretty comfortable with mine, but I see where the TV industry is getting worried. People are not going to continue to pay a couple of bucks per episode for a show that they could get for free...so why not eliminate the problem and make those shows available with the commercials, and let users do *exactly* the same thing they would do with the commercials on their Tivo or VCR? Watch them or FF.

Here's a situation I find myself in these days, more often than not. I record shows like The Daily Show on my DVR, and then they pile up for a couple of days. So I download the same episodes and put them on my PocketPC so I can watch them at lunch if I've got the time, or at the gym, or walking the dog (the Daily Show holds up surprisingly well as an audio program), or whatever. I know I'm not alone in this kind of convenience watching, and instead of TV production companies getting their panties in a twist preparing for a fight that they can't possibly win, I think they should throw in with the downloaders.

For every download site the RIAA or MPAA shut down, another pops up. They are fighting a losing battle that their counterparts (whoever they are) in the television industry do not have to fight.

The revenue stream of TV DVDs will eventually dry up, and putting the shows out for download with commercials intact keeps some money coming in to their pockets while, I think, *gutting* the illegal TV download problem. And the only thing we have to do as end users is exactly what we have always done.

I'm sick of commercials too, but I'm willing to put up with them if they are going to support shows like The Office, or Lost, or Scrubs. My point is that instead of charging for the downloads, the television industry should be changing the way they look at putting out their content.

Speaking of supporting shows like Arrested Development... heLL pAso from the above posts has a link to http://the-op.com/saveourbluths/ on the site he lists in his Custom User Title. I would argue that the position he puts forth of having "no problem with downloading tv shows" while championing a great show that desperately needed *actual support* from commercial revenue generated by viewers like the upstanding Desert_Squirrel deserves him a swift, ironic kick in the butt.

COME ON!

Another good suggestion. Some networks are leaning in that general direction already. My wife loves "What Not to Wear" on TLC, and they show the same lineup of shows during prime time 8-10PM, and then the same lineup repeats at 11PM-1AM. If you've got a DVR, you've got double the opportunities to record it. All we need is for networks to recognize that regular schedules may be fun to have...but are really unnecessary.

And it doesn't seem all that far-fetched for Sci-Fi to work out a deal with Danish advertisers to add specific commercials to a free download for Danish viewers. I realize that it might be complicated, but the big thing is that it is *workable* with TV. There would probably be resistance from Danish networks worrying about losing revenue from local programming, etc. But we're talking about a new way of looking at TV via the web.

And you're the one that's worrying the television producers. There isn't a difference at all if you don't have qualms about the "illegality" of the download. For me, the producers need to look beyond what they term illegal, and move into more of a "fair use" mentality.

Most of us who download TV aren't looking to profit, and are still buying the same amount of DVDs we normally buy. We just want to see the show, and the easiest way to see that show sometimes is to download. So again, if producers would shift the way they look at their content from rigid schedules and pay-to-download, to a mindset of "let's get our content out *everywhere* with our commercials intact", it would severly diminish the effect of illegal downloads and let those of us who find downloading convenient feel that we're still supporting our favorite shows.

Yeah, that's another thing. When programs you care about like MST3K fall off of the grid, and no one is there to make DVDs happen, why not use the technology at your disposal and watch them?

Is it illegal? Yup. Is it wrong? I don't think so. The internet downloading craze should be galvanizing the television industry to action. They should be asking themselves why they don't put a Coke bottle in the corner and let the downloads flow. And who wants to watch sporting events more than once (barring highlights)? Games should be handled the same way. As soon as it's done, shove it out on the web with some revenue-generating advertising and let the good times roll.

I honestly don't think that people are going to be willing to spend much to see even their favorite shows. There's a deep sense of ingrained entitlement to see TV for free. That said, for areas where shows are not available I think there would be a market.

But I'd still like to see the concept of free TV make the leap to the web, the most massive provider out there. I think people would still be willing to put up with commercials that support the programming. Of course, it could possibly destroy cable companies...

I've never used the iTunes store, as I am at least marginally a download criminal. But I can see the issues that you describe as a symptom of the larger problem. Rigid control vs. fair use, or however the debate can be phrased.

Is that legal? I was under the impression that the region codes meant that you should not be able to play the disks in different regions. And that region-free players and hacks are a semi-illegal workaround. My familiarity with international copyright law is sketchy at best, though.

That's the trouble with most of my simple ideas...they become completely unworkable in implementation. TV isn't really free, of course, but you can find examples of that mindset easily enough.

What troubles me is the move towards more and more rigid controls. What I'd like to see is the networks making money from something that's going to happen anyway. Like I said, the downloading can't be stopped. As soon as you come up with a way to control the technology, some kid finds a way around it. I'm hoping that there will be a way in the future to derail the illegal downloading by making it easy and profitable for the networks to offer free downloads that will generate revenue.

I've been told many times that the world I want to live in is not workable, but it sure doesn't hurt to bounce these ideas out there and hope something clicks in someone's mind somewhere that can make things happen...if not the way I envision it, then some other way to make everyone compromise.

No. I've heard hardly a discouraging word at all in this thread, and I don't feel that my ideas have been poo-poo'd at any time. I'm a little proud of this thread (it's my first). There has been a distinct lack of flaming, and some genuinely interesting and thoughtful dialogue.

I think the television industry would benefit from perusing this thread, and that makes me feel pretty good. I too think that we're on the verge of major changes in how we get our entertainment, and it's been bloody good fun throwing my two cents in.