Downloading TV - Convenience vs. Legality - Page 2

That's just a punk argument. It's easy to sneak into the movies, it's easy to steal cable, it's pretty easy to do a lot of things.

The entertainment industry is scared shitless of people who think the way that you do. Realistically, I don't think that downloading is a serious threat to the status quo right now, but the content will eventually suffer if no one figures out a different way to do things. And that would be fucking tragic. It's tough enough to product a quality show, or book, or movie, or song without having the artist responsible's ability to make a living doing it dry up.

A lot of us who have contributed to this discussion have espoused our particular brand of rationalization (however hypocritical) not as a way to make ourselves feel better, but as a way to strike a balance between the convenience of downloads, and the fact that we *do* want to support the artists.

You would not be wrong in saying that is hypocritical, but I'm OK with that. I'd rather be a little hypocritical than to wrap myself in apathy.

Graynadian, I love the sound of geurilla economics. That's what I like about the idea of the web. Once we get your integrated tv/computer, and the line between the two completely blurs, the possibilities are remarkable. I think that's another thing that worries the industry, having to go head-to-head with the crazies on the web. The collective creativity of a bunch of writers and producers can be eclipsed entirely by one crazy dude with millions of Christmas lights, some electrical equipment, a Trans-Siberian Orchestra CD, and some time on his hands.

That's what I've been trying to get to in this thread. There needs to be a different way of doing things, not all of this time and energy being spent making sure that nothing can be copied or downloaded. That is a battle that can't be won.

Apples iPod/iTunes owes it's very existence to Napster and the advent of illegal downloads. I personally think that it is only an introductory step, and that things are going to change pretty drastically. And I'd like to see something that rewards the creators of content more than the suits.

Most monkeys have similar rationalization strategies. It's a scientific fact.

I don't disagree with you. It's terribly convenient, and to me doesn't feel very different from ignoring the commercials by zipping through them on my DVR. But you just listed off your own personal morality for downloads, and I think that a lot of people who download do so with some sort of private deal they make with themselves. That's not necessarily just a flimsy rationalization, it's a way to feel you're still supporting the content you like while getting the convenience of downloads.

It's going to help the industry to have them understand that not everyone who downloads a show illegally is a leech who just doesn't want to pay for anything. I think there are *legions* of us who still buy DVDs, still pay for cable, and still go to the theater because we don't mind shelling out money for stuff we like. If the suits can realize this, and react accordingly, there could be a shift in their mindset from increasingly rigid controls to a more fair-use mentality.

Using the example of The Daily Show, they are now offering a month of Daily Shows for $9.99 on iTunes. That's a mis-step in the right direction. It costs about as much to add HBO to your cable subscription per month, and you get hundreds of movies, shows, sporting events, and late-night skin flicks. It's just not a value, especially when you consider that most people who would pay for the downloads already shell out for cable, and are tech-savvy enough to have a TiVo/DVR. Those people are going to look at their monthly bill for the Daily Show and ask themselves why they pay for the Daily Show twice...and then they'll go to a torrent site and get the download, and make a deal with themselves that as long as they are paying for cable, they are comfortable downloading the content that they've already paid for.

If I were an HBO executive, I'd look at that and say "why don't we offer high-quality HBO content (all HBO movies, every season of the Sopranos, The Wire, Entourage, Deadwood, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and the list goes on and on and on...) over the web for $19.99/month?". All of a sudden they have a revenue stream that isn't diluted by a cut to the cable companies.

And on the other side of the coin, if Comedy Central put the whole Daily Show up on the web with commercials included, people like us would *flock* to comedycentral.com to download it.

It's my secret wish that some exec will read this thread and come and whisk me away from my humdrum job in software support. Well, I guess it's not secret any more.

I don't think it's necessarily a magic solution, but that kind of mindset (on the part of networks) would be a step in the right direction. The cycle of trying to tightly protect every binary digit is self-destructive. If movies have taught us anything, it is that the more control you inflict on people, the harder they work to fight that control.

People will always find a way to beat copyright protection and bootleg things. It's time for the suits to stop expending energy trying to fight it and do something different.

And Short Round, thanks for throwing your two cents in. This is a thread that I love to see kept alive.

Yeah, there's a lot of that too, and I think it is less likely that those kind of people were *ever* going to shell out for a real DVD. They're looking for some kind of ill-deserved praise and respect from their friends. "Wow, you're so cool! How did you get United 93 on DVD so fast?". To which the truthful answer would be "I have a computer and went to a website."

But there is also a supply and demand element working here too. It's not necessarily easy for all viewers to shell out $200 for the entire season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer on DVD if they missed it the first time around and want to see it. That's where the supply/demand aspect comes in. The WB would do well to offer all of the episodes on-demand over the web for $10/month. The demand is sated, and the suppliers get some money that they wouldn't have received because that viewer didn't want to spend $200.

Instead, at present, that person just goes to a torrent site and downloads the entire run in a few days for *nothing* (except the cost of their high-speed internet of course). The demand is sated without any money going to the creators.

One thing has become perfectly clear to me in this thread, that I don't have a full grasp of the subtleties of the television industry. I'm really glad you brought up this point, and that we can take a look at the issue from that angle as well.

My gut tells me that for first-run programming, there will always be a market for the brick-and-mortar cable providers with traditional advertising and affiliates. Where that model really starts to break down for me is the rerun and syndicated shows. I've used the example of Buffy the Vampire Slayer before, and think that a show like that, with a real time-line and seven seasons worth of episodes is not going to be well-served by the traditional rerun schedule. Even with TiVo, and an episode or two running every weekday in syndication, you are talking about spending *months* getting your Buffy fix.

Today's consumer simply isn't willing to put in that kind of time. If they have the money and want quality video and audio, their only choice is to pony up for the DVDs. If they just want to watch the episodes, there are medium-quality files out there on any torrent site, conveniently packaged in season-by-season packages that can be downloaded in a matter of a few days. Unless you have ethical qualms, you can get your Buffy fix downloaded and watched inside of a few weeks.

The crux of the matter for me is that everyone seems to be desperately clinging to their piece of the pie. Creators want their share, production companies want theirs, and the local cable providers need a way to sell advertising for windshield repair, etc. But the current system cannot be all things to all parties. HBO and the like would have to come up with some solution for the local providers/affiliates...like a window of time between regular airings and when the download could be added to their web sites.

I'm sure they'll figure out some compromise, but in the meantime, trying to impose stricter controls on their content is largely a waste of energy that could be spent thinking about how to change their gameplan. A gameplan that would, of course, have to include issues further downstream.