Not Taking the Bait

I think the only way to instigate a battle of words with the right is to take on the religious wing of their party. The rest of them are so far ahead of everryone else wrt the spin game, but the fundies can't help themselves.

As always Devin, excellent article on the intersection between cinema and society.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you are. I honestly don't think the tide is turning. This is just one of the many reprieves the right has had in the past 6 years. Come election time, I think that, sadly, Republicans will win. Democrats may make some gains, but they won't attain majority.

It may very well be that Bush has reached his nadir, but how is this any different than 2004? Yes, Iraq is worse and Katrina proved how incompetent the Federal government has become under GW, but didn't we know all of this in 2004? Has there really been a sufficient change in public perception that will make the mass who support the regular-joe-cum-President come-hell-or-high-water think differently? Say what you will about the man, but he always finds a way to get ordinary people (not just crazy fundies) to rally around him when it matters the most.

Pretty much. As I was walking out from V for Vendetta, I noticed from the conversations nearby that the political allegory had totally passed over the heads of most of the audience. V for Vendetta was anything but subtle. I think these "political" films aren't making any impact because the hoi polloi has been lulled to intellectual death through FOX News journalism and yellow ribbons.

Well, I loved American Dreamz. Problem is my company distributes it here, so consider me biased. I'm curious though as what would you americans will think of it as it makes (quite candid) fun of most of your so-called-totems.

Heavy-handed? Yeah, and broad. But to me, satire also works that way. Being considered the most pro-american guy here in the company (family ties, whaddya know), I got way more jokes than the rest of the screening room, but to be fair, it also got a mixed response here.

Well, yeah. What do you think being "Giver of Life" and all that means? He dispenses the juices, he doesn't take them.

I'll give you that. But how do you take the Jesus (politicians' preferred method of control) away from the Soccer Moms and NASCAR dads who inevitably decided elections? The system works within the confines of the electoral system. Change can't come unless the politicians that pander to the right-wing are ousted from office--short of donning Guy Fawkes masks and blowing up Congress, I don't see any other way.

Whatever message we (and by "we" I mean people who value individual thought, democracy, etc...) give them (NASCAR Dads, Soccer Moms) by way of political allegory is countered by politicians who appeal to their religious fervor through sideline issues like abortion, homosexual marriage, etc...

Krauthammer was going on and on today in the Post on how polymagy can't be far behind if America, as a society, legalizes gay marriage. It's hard to explain the subtle creep of fascism in America when the message is so easily scrambled by icky anal sex, which brings us back full-circle to Jesus ;-).

Couldn't you argue that a lot of the right wingers have given up on Hollywood and just accepted it as this bizarro, abortion-lovin', euthenasia-sponsoring hellhole? I mean, this is the worst sort of situation, because at least when blowhards slag on "liberal" Hollywood, they're at least talking about it, which is the key. Even if they, like Fox News, make mistakes like claiming Saddam Hussein is a character in "Syriana"?

It seems like it, doesn't it? Hollywood is now the new way of saying liberal with the added bonus of implying sexual deviance, elitism, etc... Maybe they've gotten wise to the business aspects of it. Just talk about Narnia and The Passion and hopefully all of the other supposed "liberal" movies will go away.

I was just talking about this today with a friend of mine. I used something Dan Whitehead said and put the reasoning behind V for Vendetta not getting a big reaction from the Right is because it's a double-edged sword. For them to get pissed off by it, they first have to admit the similarities.

Well said Devin, keep up the excellent editorials.

I think one way to win the battle for the hearts and minds of easily lead Americans is to help the Christian Right see the errors of their ways. Because when it comes down to it, they've been pandered to since their merge with the GOP. GOP makes promises the Dems won't, the Right follows and fights. But what have they been given other than rhetoric? The GOP has never really delivered on their many promises to them. There are a lot of good Christians being led astray by their leadership. If it can be argued that their are bigger fish to fry than abortion doctors and gay men, you'd see a re-awakening for bible thumpers.

As for the conservative punditry not giving away free publicity for liberal-leaning films... I think they've smartened up in that dept. Now if we can get Keith Olbermann to give props to V, then maybe we can make some headway.

If religious people could be swayed by logic and facts, they wouldn't be religious.

I made a comment on this in the V thread a while back, noting that the people that need to see movies like V won't, and thus potentially important movies like this will end up continuously preaching to the choir. At the time I compared it to F911, though Millette pointed out (correctly) that 911 wasn't a political film disguised as a cool matrix-like action movie to bring in all comers.
Maybe lefty film makers need to be even more subversive. Create a film that on all surfaces appears to appeal to the religious right, with a sucker punch at the end.

I thought about that... something closer to The Last Temptation of Christ?

The problem is that once you give them the sucker punch, they will disregard it; another attack by Hollywood against Christianity. Why would this movie be any different than all the other ones that have derided their "Faith"?

I agree with Devin. These people are lost. Abortion and gay-marriage ARE the end-all-and-be-all. This cartoon sums it up quite well.

Yeah I've seen that one too. My argument is that there is a flock out there that can be won over. Their shepards have aligned their morals with the immoral in order to win on a couple issues. Call me idealistic, but I think there are minds to convince. You can vote for campaign finance and still call yourself an Evangeilcal shit-throwing nutbag. That's all I'm saying.

Ah, liberal myopia. Always good for a laugh. Thank God himself that he sent angels in the form of Democrats who somehow aren't just as big invaders of our rights as Republicans are.

You think there's nothing hypocritical with the Christian Right's dependence on the richest and greediest and most corrupt of American politicians to do their bidding? While conservatives are laughing and handing Judas the money, liberals are pissed off and destroying the market.

Careful Devin, next thing you'll be calling it a crusade.

The power of movies to win the hearts and minds of fanatics is miniscule at best. I'm far more interested in whether V was an enjoyable movie than in what the red states (how did they let that moniker stick anyway? What happened to "better dead than red"?) may or may not have thought about it.

Re: Jesus + ass: The Feederz had your number 20 years ago. NSFW.

I find this statement kind of chilling.

I have to say that I disagree with this editorial because it makes the left look just as bad as the right in that if they're not taking the bait, then it implies that we're actively baiting them instead of just trying to make art and get people thinking. If someone made a film about Jesus taking it up the ass from an AIDS patient in order to inflame the right, I would dislike the film not because of its content, but because it's inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory. It may be good for a laugh, but it's just shock value and nothing more.

Slater takes the square. Good article, Devin.

Doesn't sound like you'd be a big Michael Moore fan then.

"We have to take their children"?

So we don't kidnap their children and lock them in the cellar?

So what the fuck am I supposed to do with all these freeze-dried astronaut bars???

Another top-notch editorial Dev.

Kudos.

It does sort of paint you as creeping from house to house at night, stealing wee babes from their crib, and forcing them to listen to Anti-Flag for hours without end.

Heh, that Slate cartoon has the same problems as the movies Devin's talking about. Which is to say that most people just aren't paying any attention to them. Think about the state of mind of this nation. A nation that's what, like 90% Christians who act/think like a persecuted minority? People have begun to insulate and cocoon themselves with their faith, and beliefs, and nothing is going to get in. Likewise, the leftists have developed their own siege mentality. And you're never going to get to their kids, man. You're never going to top the conditioning they'll get at home and at church.

Especially as the Christians and the liberal PC police remove all semblance of rational thought and critical thinking from the school curriculum. The facts ain't good. Just as this country enters the most mentally challenging period of its history, the populace has become drooling, navel gazing, credulous doops. The USA isn't likely to last the century, if it even really exists now, IMO. That's OK though. A nice nation-fracturing shake up may be just what we need (better learn how to "rough it" city folk).

Like some leftist Grinch ruining Soccer-Mom Christmas.

I remember most of the early reviews for V coming out of ButtNumbAThon on AICN kept saying this movie would be a political firestorm, for the most part. I'm actually not surprised that there is little to no shitfest about this movie.

Surely the problem is Devin taking up the rhetoric of those he disagrees with - battles, enemies, wars. Haven't they won if you are seeing the world in the 'for us or against us' light that they are pushing?

Perfectly said. The Right has wised up they don't take the bait? Why does that really matter either way? If anything i'd say the left doesn't either (thats one of the reasons the Passion blew up the lefts outrage and Farenheit on the right side). People are tired of the fanatics on all sides.

Try the Jesus bit only replace it with Mohammed and see how quickly the firestorm starts in the muslim world. Thats part of the problem not freedom of speech but the baiting of people who are easily offended (can you blame them when they love, respect and follow the teachings of these figures?). We need less antagonism and more dialogue. Its all a war of ideas and values. In an age of MoveOn.org, Fox News and billions of McDonalds serving their shit to people continually its gonna take more than a few pieces or art (movies, music or whatnot) to move the masses.

Besides its all manipulation and I think people are exhausted by it. Whether its the TV and the news, the commercials or informertials or the protester on the streets they are tired of being sold a bill of goods. Apathetic which of course is a problem.

Wow, get Hollywood on the line. That would be a riot. Who could we get to play the Grinch though? Bill Maher?

Sure. Saying 'hey! that's not fair!' isn't going to do anything. I'm trying to get at the underlying problems with the Right's strategies. All the racism and homophobia seems only a symptom of creating the 'other' to hate and fear so as to keep your constituency on your side. Is there a problem with taking on that 'us vs them' approach while fighting for an 'everyone is in this together' approach? You are fighting on thier terms. Haven't they already won by you agreeing to their rules of battle?

I know you didn't mean that literally. But it seemed implied that you want to indoctrinate children with a particular ideology and I find that creepy.

This is like fascist rhetoric without the fascism.

Maybe most folks (right or left) don't dig certain types of films for the same reason they don't dig certain types of film commentary websites. That is, they just want to go see/read about a movie and not be proselytized or insulted by people who get paid (or not) to wear fun clothes and make believe that they are other people or guys whose greatest intellectual achievement to date is rating the hot pick blurb on Rotten Tomatoes.

I'm just saying, I don't see many people on the right taking your bait just now either, king troll.

The fact that you think "freedom" and "equality" are equal values shows that you have no idea how to pursue such indoctrination.

What is freedom? What is equality? In this political climate, freedom is the watchword of conservatives. "Freedom" is small government allows people to live their lives without government interference. I think such a concept is utterly ridiculous in a country of 300 million people, but some people think that more government limits what people are allowed to do and how they're allowed to do it. If you advocate this kind of freedom, then you're probably against gun control, campaign finance reform, and other such restrictions.

What is equality? For liberals, it requires a large government which can put laws into place so that everyone has equal opportunity. I think this is the right way to go but at the same time, we're not all equal, we weren't born equal, and we won't die equal. But we can have equal rights for everyone and I do strongly advocate that.

But you can see how these two vague concepts can sit in opposition to one another. So how do you take children and give them these incredibly vague terms and therefore suddenly save America? I don't think I'm being the illogical one in this debate.

I would not be surprised to find the phrase "It's a struggle for whose vision is going to guide the free world," in a speech by Mussolini. You're not advocating facist ideals, but you're using similar rhetoric of depicting an ultimate battle between good and evil.

Viva la revolucion!

I think the danger is that if the Right think some movies are just bait to get them angry (or if some movies *are* just bait to get them angry), they'll stop thinking about movies in general, and so the really good ones that should get through instead just bounce off their armour. At that point, nothing will make any difference because they simply won't be listening anymore. It's the 'once bitten twice shy' rule.