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The French Get it Right...

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Excerpts from John Dvorak in PC Magazine...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1943257,00.asp

Quote:
While the world moans and groans about the French and their attitude of cultural superiority, you sometimes have to give them credit, often in hindsight, for their ability to see through all the BS out there.

So France doesn't like the idea that Apple and the iPod and iTunes are intertwined with a proprietary structure that has no way for any other player/music download service to compete. The French say that Apple must either open the kimono, as it were, or be banned. Apple thinks it may as well walk away from France. Screw those French!

The French are also skeptical about the whole movie-piracy phenomenon. Why should illegally downloading the equivalent of a $19 disc result in a $250,000 fine and 5 years in prison? Shoplifting a $100 item from a store—which is tangible and real—has fewer consequences. Does this make any sense to anyone? The French don't think so. Illegally copying movies or downloading should be like a traffic ticket—perhaps a $100 fine. Now they are being accused of "encouraging" piracy. How's that? $100 is a lot of money.

This is the problem, and I finally realized it. To Hollywood, $100 is not a lot of money. In fact, $250,000 may not be a lot of money to many of these folks. I just died when I was looking through the latest Forbes list of Hollywood's top incomes. Comic actor Will Farrell makes $40 million a year? For what? I mean seriously, I don't want to exhibit income envy, but what great skills does Farrell employ to deserve $40 million?

Well, he obviously must attract more money in box-office receipts than he's paid, but if that's the case, things are quite skewed, and some college kid downloading a movie can't be a threat that deserves jail time. I mean, really. The French have got it right. Especially when you consider that you can record the movie off a cable channel without penalty.

I'm in complete agreement. The Movie and Recording industries are lobbying to have all sorts of technological entrapments "built-In" to HDTVs and HD-DVDs, that your own fair use is completly tossed out the window. When you purchase a film, you should be purchasing the "content", not the medium it's on. I'd be supportive if the movie industry offered a "Lifetime" Replacment" for a DVD I purchased (If it's dammaged, they will replace it, free of charge) but they don't. Sure, Piracy is wrong. I pay for DVDs, because I like the extras, the Audio Quality, etc. But if a college kid downloads a film, and is caught, slap him on the wrist, fine him, and move on.
post #2 of 21
I think the smaller fine tactic would also make it easier to police piracy. You get a ticket, you pay the fine, you go home and you download more. SNAP! Another fine because you'e an idiot. It's all far more accessible then the massive "punishment" hanging over your head. I think a lot of people don't fear the punishment right now because they feel it's too ridiculously large to really affect them.
post #3 of 21
Typical for a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Seriously, though, I agree with both of you. Every time I imagine a hollywood copyright lawyer, I'm reminded of Mr. Burns' lawyer from The Simpsons.
post #4 of 21
Apple has a right to operate their property however they want apart from the control freaks in government who want to control their property. As for the copyright matter, a $250,000 fine is ridiculous. Restitution should be made for infringement of copyright, not punishing by the thousand fold in the amount of money lost.
post #5 of 21
Way to go Frenchies! I heartily agree.
post #6 of 21
Quote:
So France doesn't like the idea that Apple and the iPod and iTunes are intertwined with a proprietary structure that has no way for any other player/music download service to compete.
Well, they could always build their own competing proprietary format and service. I mean, what's wrong with a business getting something right and profiting from it?
post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Jones
Well, they could always build their own competing proprietary format and service. I mean, what's wrong with a business getting something right and profiting from it?
Hello....MP3? An open digital format, playable by countless open source and commercial players, easily burned to CDs, and has the same audio quality. Additionally, there are several other competing services (Napster, Music Match, Yahoo) who don't lock you into a propritary system. Look at it from a hard media standpoint: Would you purchase a CD that could only be played on Sony CD players? And the real idiocy of their stance is the back door is always open: Burn iTunes songs to a CD and then rip it back with an alternate recorder. Makes their whole closed system basically pointless.
post #8 of 21
Yes, but does it make it illegal? I mean, if Sony had a way of playing sony cd's on Sony CD players that made it sound 5 times better than normal cds, would there be a market for that? There probably would be.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Hello....MP3? An open digital format, playable by countless open source and commercial players, easily burned to CDs, and has the same audio quality. Additionally, there are several other competing services (Napster, Music Match, Yahoo) who don't lock you into a propritary system. Look at it from a hard media standpoint: Would you purchase a CD that could only be played on Sony CD players? And the real idiocy of their stance is the back door is always open: Burn iTunes songs to a CD and then rip it back with an alternate recorder. Makes their whole closed system basically pointless.
I can't say that I agree with the French standpoint on this issue. Apple took the time and money to develop a proprietary format and they wish to keep it that way, with good reason. iTunes is a brand that is nearly as powerful as the iPod brand itself, and by making it so that only their hardware can patch into it creates a wonderfully profitable cycle. I don't see why, if people don't like the fact that both are intertwined, they simply don't go to another competing service. Like, you know, the other competing services.

And I fail to see how the backdoor you described makes the closed system useless when you obviously have to buy the tracks from them in the first place. You get a music file with more compression artifacts due to the fact that you're ripping from a lossy format, and they get your money. Sounds like you're losing out more than they are.

For the record, I'm an allofmp3.com man myself.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Hello....MP3? An open digital format, playable by countless open source and commercial players, easily burned to CDs, and has the same audio quality.
Apple uses AAC which is open too and has all the qualities you described, I think you're trying to complain about "FairPlay".

Quote:
Additionally, there are several other competing services (Napster, Music Match, Yahoo) who don't lock you into a propritary system.
Those services use "PlaysForSure" from Microsoft, why is this service any less proprietary than FairPlay. Neither are open or free standards.
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanAmerica
Apple uses AAC which is open too and has all the qualities you described, I think you're trying to complain about "FairPlay".
I was comparing MP3 to their overall iTunes scheme. You are correct that AAC is their audio encoding, and Fairplay is the Digital Rights Management they utilize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanAmerica
Those services use "PlaysForSure" from Microsoft, why is this service any less proprietary than FairPlay. Neither are open or free standards.
My experience is only with MusicMatch, who used to allow direct MP3 downloads. Thanks to the sorry state of music of late, I haven't utilized any service recently, and unless I'm mistaken, France has only pointed to Apple with regards to their closed system.

Silly Question for those with iPods: do they also play MP3s directly? They may be the real crux of the issue.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y3k-Bug
And I fail to see how the backdoor you described makes the closed system useless when you obviously have to buy the tracks from them in the first place. You get a music file with more compression artifacts due to the fact that you're ripping from a lossy format, and they get your money. Sounds like you're losing out more than they are.
That's exactly correct, which is why I don't utilize iTunes. The backdoor though still allows the music to be migrated, and thus "pirated", despite a slight loss in audio quality, which in turn means it's simply a headache for legitimate users of their system.
post #13 of 21
Most legitimate users of their system use iTunes, or burn songs onto a CD and are done with it. I haven't even bothered with WinAmp or other, crappier players since I first downloaded iTunes just to use as an mp3 player, and that was long before I actually started buying any music from Apple.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo Mike
Apple has a right to operate their property however they want apart from the control freaks in government who want to control their property. As for the copyright matter, a $250,000 fine is ridiculous. Restitution should be made for infringement of copyright, not punishing by the thousand fold in the amount of money lost.
To that, sir, I reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Property, a creation of law, does not arise from value, although exchangeable -- a matter of fact."
"Property rights, as we enjoy and live them, are a creation of law; they don't predate law."
The French, and our, government can do whatever the hell it wants with "property rights" so long as it's what the people want.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo Mike
Apple has a right to operate their property however they want apart from the control freaks in government who want to control their property.
I won't be surprised if the "me too" companies (Napster, MafiaSoft, Real, etc) are behind this.

Well, while they're at it, let's make my xBox games playable on my PS2. Or force Nissan to install Audi transmissions on their cars.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge

Silly Question for those with iPods: do they also play MP3s directly? They may be the real crux of the issue.
Of course they do.

BTW, France's idea of making the penalty fit the crime might be sound, but the proposed law would unfairly penalize the one company that worked and built their business to market dominating levels while also rewarding all of the also-rans for failure. What is the impetus to create successful businesses in France, if the government makes a habit of throwing all of your hard work out the window to the benefit of those who couldn't compete on a level playing field? Apple should pull the plug on France if the proposed law ever actually does get enacted as written today.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
Update about the Apple Situation:

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=4777

Quote:

Quote:
Apple’s problems in Europe look to be getting worse, not better. Following on the heels of France’s legislative push for DRM interoperability comes word that Denmark is thinking along the same lines.

Brian Mikkelsen, the Danish Minister of Culture, said that legislation addressing the matter would be introduced in 2007. He expressed optimism that DRM interoperability would be backed by the various record labels who are eager to see legal alternatives to piracy flourish online.
Apple has threatened to pull out of France if the law is passed. How many markets are Apple willing to dump to fight this? My prediction is that Apple will eventually capitulate and will grow even stronger. Allowing more music services to work with the iPod will only increase sales of that player. And allowing more players to use iTunes will only solidify the lead it enjoys. It’ll be win-win situation for Apple.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Update about the Apple Situation:

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=4777
Dvorak, stilldoesn't get it.

Apple has the iTunes store to SELL MORE iPods. Not the other way around. Ingenious business model.

BTW, I wonder why no one is bothering to unlock the Micosoft's DRM.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
That's exactly correct, which is why I don't utilize iTunes. The backdoor though still allows the music to be migrated, and thus "pirated", despite a slight loss in audio quality, which in turn means it's simply a headache for legitimate users of their system.
But thats the point I'm trying to make. Legitimate users of their system either burn iTunes tracks to a CD, or they put them on their iPod, and thats that.

But why all the hubbub? If there were no worthwhile competing services, I could understand the problem. But there are at least 4 other major services. Why does it matter if Apple's system is closed off?
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
My experience is only with MusicMatch, who used to allow direct MP3 downloads. Thanks to the sorry state of music of late, I haven't utilized any service recently, and unless I'm mistaken, France has only pointed to Apple with regards to their closed system.
PlaysForSure is a closed system too.

Quote:
Silly Question for those with iPods: do they also play MP3s directly? They may be the real crux of the issue.
They play mp3s.
post #21 of 21
i dont understand the whole "threat to our personal freedoms" argument. The legislation seems more of a vote against people profiting from copying stuff and bootleggers.
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