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Duke suspends lacrosse team from play amid rape allegations - Page 6

post #251 of 285
Nifong resigns
Quote:
"It has become increasingly apparent, during the course of this week, in some ways that it might not have been before, that my presence as the district attorney in Durham is not furthering the cause of justice," Nifong said.
Time to get his liscense now. Hope the election win was worth all this.
post #252 of 285
I've concluded, in an entirely non-empirical fashion, that for the next decade it will be anywhere from 25% to 35% more difficult to obtain indicments and/or convictions in high profile rape cases that share any similarities with this debacle.
post #253 of 285
Kobe will be happy.
post #254 of 285
And Nifong is disbarred.

He was found guilty by a ethics panel on a majority of the 19 charges against him. To lighten the blow his attorney said Nifong believed he should be disbarred.
post #255 of 285
Wow, what a mess this was.

Is it possible that the families can sue him or the county/state or is this it?
post #256 of 285
Oh, Rapenadian. What a card.
post #257 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
Wow, what a mess this was.

Is it possible that the families can sue him or the county/state or is this it?
Generally, government employees are immune from civil litigation for discretionary acts rationally related to their employment with the government (I'm paraphrasing the specific rule). This is typically interpreted very broadly, although I'm only familiar with its application here in California. The County, on the other hand, generally does not enjoy such protection. A Complaint will likely be filed ASAP.

I would, however, note that statements made during court proceedings (criminal and civil) cannot be used as the basis for a defamation or intentional infliction of emotional distress lawsuit. Out of court statements, obviously, are fair game.

Quote:
Oh, Rapenadian. What a card.
Eh?

**edit: never mind, I glanced back through the thread.
post #258 of 285
The lack of sympathy for the unjustly accused is interesting.
post #259 of 285
'Lack of sympathy', of course, being secret rapist code-word for not assuming the accuser is a lying bitch who deserves to be raped right off the bat.

Next person that posts about how tough these poor kids have it, go choke on a dick.
post #260 of 285
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brad Millette again.
post #261 of 285
We gave the woman the benefit of the doubt, and we were wrong. I'm not saying she deserves to be punished, I'm just saying it must have sucked for these men to have to go through this. I feel sympathy for both parties. Why is that wrong?

Your hatred of these young men is interesting in and of itself. What did they do to you?
post #262 of 285
Nothing. I don't hate them. I don't know them, and in a few months, I won't remember them. I don't even know their names, and I would have to actually look that up to recite them. So I don't sympathize with them. Yeah, it sucks to get wrongly accused, but they were acquitted, and they'll likely find some fashion of legal recompense. But they'll get over it.

All those people that get raped, and are either too scared to come forward, or come forward and get told they're liars, chances are they'll have a bit of a tougher time.

So pardon me if I don't really care all that much that a few guys got acquitted of rape charges.
post #263 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
Generally, government employees are immune from civil litigation for discretionary acts rationally related to their employment with the government (I'm paraphrasing the specific rule). This is typically interpreted very broadly, although I'm only familiar with its application here in California. The County, on the other hand, generally does not enjoy such protection. A Complaint will likely be filed ASAP.
The immunity only goes so far. My understanding is that immunity extinguishes upon a showing of malice (intentioanl wrongdoing) in his acts. As he admitted he pulled the trigger on the suit to win the election, it may be possible for a civil suit to survive the Complaint phase.
post #264 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette
All those people that get raped, and are either too scared to come forward, or come forward and get told they're liars, chances are they'll have a bit of a tougher time.

So pardon me if I don't really care all that much that a few guys got acquitted of rape charges.
But that's not the guys' fault. If it's harder now it's because of a false accuser and/or an overzealous prosecutor. Why not blame them for making it harder on genuine victims?
post #265 of 285
So what if it's not their fault?

I'm still not condemning them for anything.

And if you actually read the thread, not many people were. Most people were condemning Graynadian's obviously pro-rapist point of view.

But getting all "boo-hoo those poor boys!" is stupid, because this won't matter to anyone in a short amount of time, as it's already slipped out of the national consciousness. Was it an unfortunate incident, and a gross misstep of justice? Yes. Were they victimized? No, and if you say they were, you're wrong.
post #266 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette
Was it an unfortunate incident, and a gross misstep of justice? Yes.
That's all I need to feel some sympathy for them. I feel a little bad for what they went through. I guess it's wrong of me to expect anyone else to feel sympathy, but I think it's wrong to say that nobody should feel any sympathy for them. An injustice is an injustice.

In the end, it's not worth arguing about. Go about your life.
post #267 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkerbee
The lack of sympathy for the unjustly accused is interesting.
They were justly accused (please note the word is accused, not convicted) and justly acquitted. The evidence (at the time) was enough to convince a grand jury to bring up charges. In the course of time, their innocence was affirmed. Case closed. System worked.
post #268 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigolo Joe
They were justly accused (please note the word is accused, not convicted) and justly acquitted. The evidence (at the time) was enough to convince a grand jury to bring up charges. In the course of time, their innocence was affirmed. Case closed. System worked.
Exculpatory DNA evidence was wrongfully withheld for months (until after the election). An accused has an absolute, constitutional right to an immediate review of such evidence. The system may have eventually served its function, but there were blatant abuses of power.

The County, and probably Mr. Nifong, are going to be sued because of it.
post #269 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
The system may have eventually served its function, but there were blatant abuses of power.

The County, and probably Mr. Nifong, are going to be sued because of it.
No doubt; however, they were justly accused and justly acquitted. I wasn't very pleased with the choice of words nekkerbee used "unjustly accused." To me that implies a great deal more power abuse.
post #270 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette
But getting all "boo-hoo those poor boys!" is stupid, because this won't matter to anyone in a short amount of time, as it's already slipped out of the national consciousness. Was it an unfortunate incident, and a gross misstep of justice? Yes. Were they victimized? No, and if you say they were, you're wrong.
Exactly. These poor kids are going to start post-college life no doubt interning at some great law firm of Duke grads and eventually use this horrible incident to drum up business for themselves. "I know what it's like to be falsely accused. Give me a couple hundred grand and I'll fight the system to prove your innocence, Orenthol".
post #271 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Exactly. These poor kids are going to start post-college life no doubt interning at some great law firm of Duke grads and eventually use this horrible incident to drum up business for themselves. "I know what it's like to be falsely accused. Give me a couple hundred grand and I'll fight the system to prove your innocence, Orenthol".
So... they don't deserve any sympathy for what they went through because they won't suffer forever afterward? I'm trying to understand your perspective. Mine is: these young men went through an awful experience because they were wrongly/falsely accused of a vile crime, and I feel somewhat sympathetic for their troubles even if it has no lasting impact. I guess I feel it's the decent thing to feel bad for someoe who goes through a shitty experience not of their own making, and which they do not deserve. But that's just me.
post #272 of 285
This is a weird thread. If you are percieved to be too sensitive to the ordeal these guys went through, you are suddenly going to be accused of being pro-rape?

Hey we get that these guys are rich, and they will overcome this more easily than most of us, but it's chilling to see how a prosecutor can become so fanatical. It reminds me of the poor kid accused of rape charges for oral sex, were the system just doesn't feel any compassion at all and prosecutors don't seem to just stop and try to apply some common sense.
post #273 of 285
No, only if you come into the thread like.. "Oh, it's so TELLING that you guys don't sympathize with them." or some such nonsense.

Or if you're Rapenadian.

'cuz that guy is definitely Rapetimus Prime.
post #274 of 285
I'd hate to be wrongly accused of rape. But these losers aren't getting any sympathy from me for happily inviting those two women to degrade themselves.
post #275 of 285
So being wrongly accused of rape and publicly vilified is a fair and reasonable penalty for paying women to freely and voluntarily debase themselves?
post #276 of 285
The email the one kid wrote about skinning a stripper, that was real, right?

It's not right that it happened, I just don't give a shit and don't really understand people who do. Nifong should be fired and he was. He'll face even more consequences in the future. In fact, he's the one who's going to have the long-term negative affects of this. So, you all should be happy these innocent children were accused because in the end it exposed a corrupt prosecutor and took him out of the business for the rest of his life.
post #277 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkerbee
So being wrongly accused of rape and publicly vilified is a fair and reasonable penalty for paying women to freely and voluntarily debase themselves?
Did I say that? No. Two separate issues. Why do you care so much about sympathy anyway? As GFC said, the case is done, and the real enemy was exposed. I don't feel I NEED to give sympathy to anybody. You can if you want. Just don't come looking for it from others who want to move on.
post #278 of 285
At this point I just think it's funny that some people seem put out that I actually feel a bit bad for the lacrosse players. But you're right that I shouldn't expect it of anyone else. That was wrong.
post #279 of 285
No, people seem put out because you're a cock about it.
post #280 of 285
Why am I a cock? I admitted I was wrong to expect it from anyone else. And I admit my opening salvo, "The lack of sympathy for the unjustly accused is interesting", was a touch obnoxious.

I still have sympathy for them, and I find other's lack of sympathy kind of interesting. But you've made your reasons clear, and even if I don't wholly agree with them, I accept them. Case closed. Any further ire, directed either at me or them, is amusing.
post #281 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zollicoffer
I'd hate to be wrongly accused of rape. But these losers aren't getting any sympathy from me for happily inviting those two women to degrade themselves.

Here, here! Them dirty boys don't need to be wantin' to look at the nekkid women folk. Somebody better get me my tar and feathers ready, dag nabbit...


Nekkebee's melodramatic statements of condemnation aside, anyone else find this statement a tad bit hyperbolic?
post #282 of 285
Not really, no. Because still, nobody's saying they deserved anything that happened to them, just that we don't have to sympathize. They were obviously pretty douchey in the first place, they were just falsely accused and subsequently acquitted.
post #283 of 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Millette
Not really, no. Because still, nobody's saying they deserved anything that happened to them, just that we don't have to sympathize. They were obviously pretty douchey in the first place, they were just falsely accused and subsequently acquitted.
Exactly. I guess I need a more popular person to get my point across.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirlybird
Here, here! Them dirty boys don't need to be wantin' to look at the nekkid women folk. Somebody better get me my tar and feathers ready, dag nabbit...


Nekkebee's melodramatic statements of condemnation aside, anyone else find this statement a tad bit hyperbolic?
Hyperbolic? Your asinine mockery of me surely was, but my statement wasn't. If I said they deserved everything they went through? Yes, that would qualify as hyperbolic.
post #284 of 285
Douchebaggery of the defendants aside , you did seem to be implying that the act hiring a stripper automatically makes someone a degenerate scumbag. Maybe you were saying that, maybe you weren’t. Either way it’s your point of view and I don’t want this devolving into a pointless free for all.
post #285 of 285
Good article by Slate:

Quote:
Now that justice has prevailed in the Duke rape case, with the nice innocent boys exonerated and the prosecutor who hounded them disbarred, it is tempting to chalk the whole incident up to an unusual and terrible mistake—a zany allegation taken too seriously by a run-amok prosecutor. It would be pretty to think that Nifong's humbling suggests that our system of justice works well, harshly punishing the few rogue prosecutors who subvert the legal process. But this is simply not true.

Prosecutors almost never face public censure or disbarment for their actions. In fact, it took a perfect storm of powerful defendants, a rapt public, and demonstrable factual innocence to produce the outcome that ended Mr. Nifong's career. And because only a handful of prosecutors will ever face the sort of adversaries Nifong did or come close to the sort of scrutiny the former DA endured, the Duke fiasco will make little difference in how criminal law is practiced in courthouses around the country. Regardless of Nifong's sanction, the drama leaves prosecutorial misconduct commonplace, unseen, uncorrected, and unpunished.

As Angela Davis explains in her book Arbitrary Justice: The Power of the American Prosecutor, young prosecutors too often see their goal as winning rather than doing justice. The culture of their offices and the adversarial nature of the criminal justice system push them in this direction. Over time, they move further toward, and eventually across, the line separating fair play from systemic manipulation. How often this actually happens is hard to say. Because more than 90 percent of the criminal cases result in pleas, most instances of prosecutorial misconduct never even come to light. Nonetheless, in the rollicking back and forth of a normal state trial, it is a rare case in which problems involving the withholding of potentially exculpatory evidence (as Nifong was accused of doing) don't arise. In most of these instances, a judge deals with late disclosure by adjourning the trial to give the defense more time to respond, or by issuing an ineffectual reprimand. This isn't exactly remedying the problem.

There are, of course, a few particularly egregious cases that leave visible traces in appellate records. A 2003 study by the Center for Public Integrity found nearly 11,500 such cases. Of them, four out of five were shrugged off as harmless errors. And as previously noted in Slate, of the 2,012 cases since 1970 in which appeals judges actually threw out an indictment, conviction, or sentence because of prosecutorial malfeasance, in only 44 did prosecutors even appear before state ethics boards to answer for their actions. Another indicator: A Chicago Tribune investigation found 381 Illinois murder convictions that were reversed because prosecutors withheld evidence or prompted witnesses to lie. The number of those prosecutors publicly sanctioned or disbarred as a result? Zero.

Mike Nifong did what prosecutors almost always do when a complainant comes to them alleging a sexual assault: He took his complainant at her word and went full speed ahead with a prosecution. The fact is that few if any prosecutors wait for corroborating evidence or insist on more than one person's say so before initiating a sexual assault prosecution. Indeed, they'd be vilified if they did. The cardinal rule of sexual assault complaints is "believe the victim," and since anyone who complains is deemed a victim, even a semi-credible complainant can generate an arrest and prosecution in the absence of physical evidence, additional witnesses, or even a prompt accusation. This isn't just the case in Durham; it's true almost everywhere. The widespread support for this questionable practice is such that if the Duke case had gone to a jury and the defendants had been convicted, Nifong would not only still have his law license—he'd have been lionized for his dogged pursuit of rich white kids.

In addition to the charge that he temporarily withheld key evidence from the defense, Nifong faced disbarment because of his public excoriation of the former Duke students. His statements, it was alleged, crossed the ethical line by whipping up public sentiment against the young men, making it harder for them to get a fair trial. As a prosecutor, Nifong obviously had a special obligation to fairness. But in an era of breathless, round-the-clock coverage of big criminal cases, his over-the-top remarks were often defended. Within hours, a cadre of current and former prosecutors flooded the airwaves to condemn the young men, lament their devious ways, and defend Nifong's press strategy. In the heat of the moment, Joshua Marquis of the National District Attorney's Association insisted, "when someone has been arrested for a scandalous crime, the public has a right to know why you brought the charges." And Wendy Murphy, a former sex-crimes prosecutor, opined with no basis whatsoever about the physical evidence related to the sexual assault charges, "There's likely to be stuff in [the DNA report] that the defense doesn't like."

Later, of course, the same prosecutors who so vigorously defended Nifong's conduct became vocal proponents of a severe sanction. Marquis has worried over the undermining of prosecutorial authority, due to the "Nifong effect," and Murphy has also recently edged away from the former DA. What once played as reasonable conduct is now portrayed as the misdeeds of an outlier. A simple calculus explains the shift: If Mike Nifong's conduct is commonplace, then the whole system is corrupt. If other DAs do what he did, then we have to face up to how widespread and corrosive prosecutorial misconduct really is—a discussion Marquis and Murphy and other prosecutors would strongly prefer to avoid.

Though the Duke case has been spun from the outset as a parable about race, it has always been far more about class, access, and power. From the beginning, the three boys had extraordinary legal talent, unusual political access, and significant press savvy. With a steady stream of exculpatory evidence and investigative triumphs that would have eluded all but the wealthiest of defendants, the defense team mounted an extremely well-funded and successful public campaign, exerting tremendous pressure on Nifong and other state officials. In the end, the Duke defendants orchestrated Mr. Nifong's downfall and also won an outcome almost unheard of in our criminal justice system—a pretrial exoneration.

The disbarment of Mike Nifong, and the civil suit or even criminal charges that are almost sure to follow, might seem a pleasing end to a sad saga. And yet Nifong is a scapegoat. Despite their terrifying power to ruin lives, prosecutors are afforded almost unparalleled discretion to do their jobs and extraordinary deference from the courts. As a result, serious sanctions for prosecutorial misdeeds are virtually unheard of. This makes it highly unlikely that Nifong's comeuppance will deter aggressive prosecutors. Instead, his punishment will be seen for what it is: a freakish anomaly.
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