CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPORTS, GAMES & LEISURE › Television › The Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel Appreciation Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel Appreciation Thread

post #1 of 837
3/30/06 at 10:10pm
Thread Starter 
The Buffy The Vampire Slayer & Angel Appreciation Thread




I'm not going to make this like my usual appreciation threads. I can't be bothered to give show histories and rank episodes. Instead I'll just mention how I started watching them, and why I like them

So I'm now a Buffy/Angel fan. After watching both series on DVD this past year I've come to LOVE both of these shows which I previously had a distaste for. I didn't realize how smart, and brilliantly executed these shows were. I love the writing... LOVE IT!

I've always thought that I'd love to see characters in certain situations do or say something that they're not supposed to. After watching "Buffy" I couldn't believe that I was seeing exactly what I wanted to see. Rather then characters running and screaming from a demon like they're supposed to they didn't. They wouldn't say something completley sarcastic or stupid and then do one hit and kill the creature. I loved it. And I loved how some demons would be all terrifying then when they talk their some hip, cool demon. Skip from "Angel" comes to mind.

I started watching "Buffy" after a friend had leant me "Firefly" to watch. I have been a sci-fi fan for a long time so I figured I'd give it a watch. I ended up loving "Firefly" and so he then said, "well why not try Buffy?" He owned the whole series so I reluctantly said yes. I struggled through the first three seasons but once I started watching season four I started to really love the show. I then burned through the whole thing and actually before I was done with his season six I bought the entire series off of eBay. It was at this time I was downloading the whole series of "Angel", since my buddy didn't own it.

I watched the first season of "Angel" and when I finished that I said screw it and bought the whole series off of eBay. I've now finished "Angel" and it's definitley the better show. I cared more about the characters, the stories and where everything was going. I loved the big over all story arc more then I did with "Buffy". I love the character of Wesley and how they handled it. Any other show probably would have had them forgive him for what he did but this show completley threw that out and had the characters treat Wesley likie dirt. I loved it!


The cast and Joss Whedon celebrate 100 episodes of "Angel"

I also love how unconvential these shows are. They weren't afraid to do things that no other show could even think of doing. I loved Buffy's musical episode and consider one of my favourite TV moments and one of my fav episodes of "Buffy". And then there's this:


Angel is turned into a puppet in season five's "Smile Time"

I think the photo speaks for itself. Seriously what other primetime, network show would turn it's main character into a puppet?

I'm glad I found these shows, I really am. I feel kind of bad that I didn't watch them when they were on the air and I feel little sad that "Angel" wasn't able to last a little longer. Not much longer but it would've been nice if it had another season. The interaction between Spike and Angel was really starting to get great and I could've seen Angel and Spike settling their qaurel and becoming friends again. It was even hinted at the final season of "Angel" after Spike had his hands cut off. In the hospital room they had such a wonderful conversation about they were innocent beings at one time. The whole scene there and the last two lines of dialogue were terrific.

I love these shows.

So discuss! And I'd guess we don't have to worry about spoilers since that'd be rather hard considering what happens to characters in Joss Whedon shows.
Reply
post #2 of 837
3/30/06 at 10:41pm
its been a while since I have seen an episode of either show, but I do know that I miss it. When both shows worked, they worked wonderfully well.

I was most impressed with Angel after being abruptly torn away from its predecessor when Buffy went to UPN, Angel actually became BETTER. The show really started to lose me with Connor's return from the hell dimension and Cordelia's evil pregnancy...but the last season was truly wonderful.

As far as Buffy...I can say the first episode I saw that really had me hooked on the show was the ep where Xander and that teacher work on a relationship, but she ends up being some sort of lizard lady. All the clever little twists in the early buffy episodes kept me very entertained beyond the great dialogue writing. Unfortunately, the show began to crumble its own weight as they tried to get fancier with their story arcs, but I really think it got a fitting end as well.
Reply
post #3 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:14pm
There's a noticable lack of all things Whedon on tv these days.

I got into the Whedon shows late in the game, after they'd all gone off the air, and I devoured them on DVD.

Firefly remains my favorite, mostly because, with it's short run, it didn't really have time to do anything disappointing. It was like the exciting first-third of a novel.

Buffy's phenomenal, and as uneven as the 6th and 7th seasons are, I think it's not hyperbole to say that it's one of the most consistently entertaining and intelligent shows that tv's spawned.

Angel's always been my least favorite, mostly because the whole teenage Conner thing just didn't work for me. But the fifth season of Angel is stellar.
Reply
post #4 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:16pm
I liked Buffy when it was a monster of the week show and before it got kind of boring and serious and too real-worldy. Although I could never stand the actual title character, she was never that likeable for me. Seasons two and three are some killer TV though.

Angel was better, although still suffered from annoying dialogue. It was kind of like Knight Rider but with hotter chicks.
Reply
post #5 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:23pm
You should've stuck around till Season 7, where Buffy finally gets called on her shit.

I loved the show through its entire run, but there were definitely times when Buffy could benefit from a professionally done head from ass removal.
Reply
post #6 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crow
I loved the show through its entire run, but there were definitely times when Buffy could benefit from a professionally done head from ass removal.
I believe it was called Spike.
Reply
post #7 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:42pm
I believe this thread also marks the first time I've seen the actor who played Lorne without makeup.

Weird.
Reply
post #8 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
I liked Buffy when it was a monster of the week show and before it got kind of boring and serious and too real-worldy. Although I could never stand the actual title character, she was never that likeable for me. Seasons two and three are some killer TV though.
Agreed. Buffy ended up being the most aggravating character on the entire show.

I, myself, worship at the altar of Giles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Angel was better, although still suffered from annoying dialogue. It was kind of like Knight Rider but with hotter chicks.
Except with demons, and vampires, and evil lawyers, and no talking car, and no evil doppleganger for Angel that wears a goatee and drives a truck.

....How is it like Knight Rider again?
Reply
post #9 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:52pm
Cheesy man in leather jacket... helping strangers in need... annoying sidekick that gets him out of trouble...
Reply
post #10 of 837
3/30/06 at 11:59pm
buffy at it's peak was the better show. when giles became a lesser part of the show it started going downhill for me. the last few years were pretty tame in comparison to season's 2 and 3, which were the 2 greatest tv show seasons ever IMO. angel was the more consistent show from start to end. wesley somehow miraculously became one of whedon's finest character's. the connor storyline was really the only half crap thing about angel but atleast they kind of redeemed his character in the end.
Reply
post #11 of 837
3/31/06 at 12:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heLL pAso
wesley somehow miraculously became one of whedon's finest character's.
Damn right. Justine with a gag in a closet. It sealed the deal on his case.

Buffy was good, but quite uneven.
Angel still take the cake, and boast a serie's finale that is one of the finest. By ending it this way it gave the statement of the show the last word.

Keep fighting.
Reply
post #12 of 837
3/31/06 at 12:05am
I defiantly despised both shows throughout their run, but ended up seeing Firefly last year, which of course led me to reconsider Buffy and Angel. I am currently in the middle of watching both shows for the first time. I'm in Buffy season 5 and Angel season 1. At this point Buffy season 3 was the best and it's definitely starting to slightly go downhill. I am not LOVING Angel at all yet, so I assume it gets better. I agree that Buffy herself is the worst thing about that show and the best would be Giles, Spike and of course Miss Douche-ku
Reply
post #13 of 837
3/31/06 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Cheesy man in leather jacket... helping strangers in need... annoying sidekick that gets him out of trouble...
I thought that was Highway To Heaven.

Ah, well. Point taken.
Reply
post #14 of 837
3/31/06 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Kinski
I am not LOVING Angel at all yet, so I assume it gets better.
Season five will blow your ass out.

Wear casual clothing.
Reply
post #15 of 837
3/31/06 at 12:27am
It's nice to see a thread on the boards here where I don't have to fear showing my great love for all the Whedon shows. Buffy is by far my favorite television show of all time, with my favorite year being the grim darkness of season six. I started watching the show when they began showing 2 episodes a day on FX, and became immediately hooked. I just loved the humor, and the way they took those "monster of the week" plots and brought them to places you never expected. That was what initially hooked me, but it was the sheer depth and the varying themes that made it my favorite show.

As for Angel, it certainly has a special place in my heart, but until the balls-out glory of season 5 I found it far too inconsistent and occasionally grating in the way it handled certain characters/plotlines. But season 5 may well be the best year of any Whedon show, period.

And, of course, Firefly kicks ass. As much as I'm loving Battlestar Galactica these days, I do miss the humor and whip-smart dialogue that Firefly brought to the screen.
Reply
post #16 of 837
3/31/06 at 12:27am
Thread Starter 
Has Wesley appeared yet? I must admit that I found Doyle to be rather annoying and I was happy when they off'ed him. Then when Wesley showed up I started squealing like a school girl.

"When I was a rogue demon hunter..."
Reply
post #17 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:40am
"What's a rogue demon?"

I started with Serenity, oddly enough, and enjoyed it immensely. I checked out Firefly...which made me sad both for what I missed, and for its cancellation.

I am three episodes from the end of Angel, and while it wasn't the greatest show I've ever seen, I really enjoyed the characters and am looking forward (after a small break) to watching Buffy. Oddly enough, I was going to dig up an old Angel thread when I was finished, but then I spotted this.

These were truly unique, excellent shows.
Reply
post #18 of 837
3/31/06 at 6:31am
A big fan of both shows here.

The first three seasons of Buffy are easily amongst the best I've seen on TV. It's a toss-up between seasons two and three as to when Buffy was at it's prime. The fourth season is still very good, but after that the show went the way of The X-Files for me. The change in tone and drop in quality is quite apparent from then on. The villains got worse and the writing started to feel flat and forced. Some people credited Marti Noxon as saying she wanted the show to be Dawson's Creek with demons. I've personally never seen an actual source for that quote anywhere but it's an apt description of Buffy in it's last years. Season six might be worst of the bunch, I was never able to find the Troika either funny or involving. But it still managed to have moments that made me giggle like a schoolgirl (Once More with Feeling, "I'd like to test that theory"). Season seven has got a few good things going for it, Nathan Fillion being amongst them, but it's still a far cry from the first seasons.

As for Angel, the whole Darla and Connor storylines soured the show a bit for me and a recent DVD viewing showed that the first season hasn't aged that well. The show managed to really pick up in it's last season, which I'd rank it's finest. Spike worked better on Angel than he did on the last seasons of Buffy.

On the whole, I'll have to say Buffy is the better show but not by much. And I'll take a few bad seasons of Buffy if the show overall helped get stuff like Veronica Mars on the air.
Reply
post #19 of 837
3/31/06 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer
I thought that was Highway To Heaven.
I thought that was B.J. and the Bear. Whatever floats your boat...
Reply
post #20 of 837
3/31/06 at 2:46pm
I can watch Buffy season three 'til the cows come home. Even if it's just for The Mayor, who's pretty much the best TV villain ever.
Reply
post #21 of 837
3/31/06 at 2:49pm
Obviously you've never heard of a little guy called Davros.
Reply
post #22 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer
Agreed. Buffy ended up being the most aggravating character on the entire show.
I'd rank her third, after Spike and Angel.
Reply
post #23 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:14pm
I found Spike aggravating most from his accent, the same with Dru. I always enjoyed Angel and the tales from his backstory especially, excluding David Boreanaz's horrific Irish accent, of course.

Then again, the three nerds probably take a lot of it. But not before Buffy.
Reply
post #24 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:22pm
I love the nerds. Boreanz couldn't get that accent right, that's for sure. And he kept slipping in and out of it.

With Spike, my big problem is that they kept trying to make him the noble hero. I just never thought he was written that well. I'm talking about seasons 6 and 7 here. I love season 2 villain Spike, I like season 4-5/Angel season 5 snarky Spike, but I hate season 6-7 noble, pained, James Dean spike.
Reply
post #25 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:28pm
Oh, that explains it. I kind of tuned out by then cause I just wasn't enjoying the show.
Reply
post #26 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuniorMint
I can watch Buffy season three 'til the cows come home. Even if it's just for The Mayor, who's pretty much the best TV villain ever.
Ditto. Easily my favorite season of my favorite show.
Reply
post #27 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:31pm
Angel was the best Batman show ever. The first 3 seasons of Buffy are solid (s3 being my favorite.) But overall, I'd say Angel's a better show. Suitably epic with darker, more adult themes. Couldn't stand the Cordelia preggers plotline, but that's what happens when your female lead gets knocked up. Connor was inconsistent but the Jasmine storyline was cool.

Buffy's later seasons had some good stuff to be sure (like the ending to s5,) but I just couldn't take all the ponitifcating over Buffy's curse/gift.
Reply
post #28 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:35pm
I heard the Batman comparison a lot, mostly from DD, but I never really saw it that way. Sure, he was fighting for justice, walking a line between good and evil, etc etc, but it never played that way for me. And it certainly wasn't better than B:TAS.
Reply
post #29 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:47pm
I see Angel's gypsy curse as a lot like Bruce's parents' death. Its the guilt thing. He's isolated and deeply flawed. Wesley/Gunn makes a much better sidekick than Robin. With a few changes, Wolfram & Hart (or any evil law firm) would fit in nicely into Batman's Rogue's Gallery. And LA is like a character in the show, a lot like Gotham City is in the page of Batman.

This isn't the deepest comparison, but I feel like I got my Batman surrogate fix while watching Angel.
Reply
post #30 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:47pm
My season-for-season assessment:

Buffy:
Season 1: pretty good, fun show, does a good job setting up the universe.
Seasons 2 and 3: The Greatness.
Season 4: interesting change of pace, stumbles a bit. I think the central story is possibly the weakest of any season, but there are several secondary stories that rock considerably. Great fun to watch.
Season 5: The most emotionally resonant season, one of the best.
Season 6: Huge change in tone that works for me. I love this season. 90% succesful.
Season 7: Great season until the last 5 or 6 episodes, then it just goes wrong. Recovers enough in the last episode to make me still like it.

Angel:
I don't have any Angel DVD's, and I'm positive that my opinion on the show would improve if I watched it again. I love the show, but it never quite becomes the show it promises to be, the "darker, more mature" version of Buffy. I would say that this is one of Whedon's greatest weaknesses. He wants to write adult stories about adult characters and morally ambiguous situations, but he just doesn't have it in him. He has a romantic, adolescent world view that he cannot shake. This causes some of the principle problems with Buffy 7 and Angel 5.

Season 1: uneven.
Season 2: Good.
Season 3: Fucking great, operatic drama. Probably the best season of the show.
Season 4: Fucking batshit insane, but probably the most fun and risky season.
Season 5: A failure, but an enjoyable one.
Reply
post #31 of 837
3/31/06 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Obviously you've never heard of a little guy called Davros.
Curses! Retcon that to read my FAVOURITE TV villain ever. Davros gave me nightmares as a nipper, but he couldn't make good hygiene seem menacing like The Mayor did.
Reply
post #32 of 837
3/31/06 at 6:40pm
Thread Starter 
I didn't much care for the first three seasons of Buffy when I watched it. But reading all these responses has changed my opinion (Slightly) of Buffy. I still loathe the first season but season two and three were pretty great. Season two is where Buffy killed Angel just as he got his soul back right? 'Cause that was some kick ass shit right there.

I agree that the later seasons fell off in qaulity but I still enjoyed them. Season six was pretty weak but I think the show still managed maintain being good throughout its run. Seven seasons was good enough and it ended at the right time.
Reply
post #33 of 837
3/31/06 at 7:15pm
Like a lot of people in this thread, I got into Buffy and Angel on DVD. I completely agree about the fifth season of Angel, which was right around the peak of my obsession with all things Whedon, it's pretty great. The series finale is one of my favorite finales ever.

Breaking down the seasons, for Buffy my order might go something like: Five, Seven, Three, Six (which I can appreciate on a dramatic level but can't really get into), Four, Two, One. I think Two is one of the weakest in that they completely kill the dramatic momentum near the end with that lame fish episode. Weak.

Angel, I haven't watched a lot of except the first and last seasons (although I love the season 2 finale where Lorne says: "I don't belong here, I never belonged here. You know where I belong? L.A. Nobody belongs there. It's the perfect place for guys like us."), but I thought some of the episodes involving Angel's past were great. The McCarthy one was kind of creepy, actually.
Reply
post #34 of 837
4/1/06 at 12:49am
Another great appreciation thread. Thanks, Brendan.
Reply
post #35 of 837
4/1/06 at 1:27am
I attempted to summarize Buffy and my feelings about the show on a newsgroup some time ago. Might as well repost this (ever so slightly revised) where someone could actually see it:

My two cents, without looking anything up:

Season 1: The purest, most iconic Buffy, before the backstory could weigh it down. The High-School-as-Hell metaphor rules all. "The Pack" officially sets the anyone-can-die precedent with the departure of Principal Flutie. Favorite eps are "Nightmares" and "Never Kill a Boy". "Out of Sight, Out of Mind" introduces an intriguing potential subplot that is never explored.

Season 2: Starting with a fairly subtle investigation of post-traumatic stress referencing Year One's finale, the tone is darker in general, and standalone eps move from depicting general high-school anxieties to personal and relationship-based ones. "Lie To Me" remains my favorite straight-up Buffy-vs-vamps ep ever, and Buffy's sexy/angry dance to Cibo Matto in "When She Was Bad" remains my favorite scene. The Angel arc drops bomb after devastating bomb and we get our first glimpse of Willow power. "Halloween" establishes a long-standing character trait for Xander, while "What's My Line" seems ready to set up interesting career paths for Willow and Oz, but doesn't.

Season 3: We bid adieu to the Wonderbra Years and say hello to 35mm production. The Mayor's whitebread evil serves Joss' voice perhaps better than any other character. Faith appears, but frankly Dushku won't hit her stride as an actress until Season 4. P.S. The return of Angel is never satisfactorily explained, is it?

Season 4: They survived high school, so what's the new metaphor going to be? The transition to college works smoother than expected. "Living Conditions" scores a hit with the literal Roommate From Hell, and the much-hated "Beer Bad" dissects the culture of unsupervised higher education better than it's given credit. The Initiative arc is brilliantly foreshadowed, and Riley isn't as bad a character as all that. "The 'I' in Team" should be studied by all beginning screenwriters as a model of rapid story advancement. Adam is a bit of a stiff as the Big Bad. The climax and finale suggest a major evolution in Buffy's abilities (and a new direction for the show) but that potential is never really explored again.

Season 5: Although we're back to Buffyness-as-usual, the writers pull off their most brilliant and risky narrative trick yet with the retroactive introduction of Dawn. They have less success positing Glory as an anti/uberBuffy; she's too physically imposing to register as a member of B's age group, let alone her species. The Magic Box gives Giles some much-needed grounding. Willow's subtext becomes, to coin a phrase, text. Riley becomes briefly cooler, then leaves. Buffy saves the world a lot, then dies.

Season 6: By now, Buffy's started many a season as the reluctant heroine, but this is the first time she returns against her will. In addition, the structures of both school and home effectively dissolve, leaving all characters adrift, whether intentionally or not. There aren't even any decent villains around. Intriguingly mundane themes such as cash flow and guardianship are broached, then discarded. Ms. Hannigan, having fared spectacularly as Raging Willow in Season 5, never quite gets a grip on Nihilist Willow. Xander finally tells Buffy he loves her, but the timing stinks. Buffy promises to show Dawn the world, but won't.

Season 7: The high-school element is reintroduced, at least one season too late. A peer group for Dawn appears and then vanishes before you can say 'Scrappies". The writers, having forgotten whatever their plan for Spike was going to be, try out three or four different ideas in quick succession. None of Buffy's neighbors seem to mind that the Summers home now has more traffic than a crackhouse. We get one flat-out terrfiying ep in "Conversations With Dead People", and an A-1 gutbuster from "Him", but then the arc-plot kicks in and for the first time there's a lack of distinction between episodes. The last half of the season is heavily padded, and the finale refuses to grant Buffy any kind of love interest for fear of compromising her status as a symbol of feminist independence.

Still, I love this show. Go figure.
Reply
post #36 of 837
4/1/06 at 3:17pm
Bumping this thread for my benefit. Will be back later with my reponses.
Reply
post #37 of 837
4/2/06 at 3:30am
Just finished with Angel, season five. A great finale...but bittersweet as well. Maybe I'll pick up the books or graphic novels if I have time....but there needed to be some type of follow-up movie.
Reply
post #38 of 837
4/2/06 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Cheesy man in leather jacket... helping strangers in need... annoying sidekick that gets him out of trouble...

Annoying sidekick that gets him out of trouble?

Have you actually seen Angel?
Reply
post #39 of 837
4/2/06 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supremo
It's nice to see a thread on the boards here where I don't have to fear showing my great love for all the Whedon shows. Buffy is by far my favorite television show of all time, with my favorite year being the grim darkness of season six. I started watching the show when they began showing 2 episodes a day on FX, and became immediately hooked. I just loved the humor, and the way they took those "monster of the week" plots and brought them to places you never expected. That was what initially hooked me, but it was the sheer depth and the varying themes that made it my favorite show.

As for Angel, it certainly has a special place in my heart, but until the balls-out glory of season 5 I found it far too inconsistent and occasionally grating in the way it handled certain characters/plotlines. But season 5 may well be the best year of any Whedon show, period.

And, of course, Firefly kicks ass. As much as I'm loving Battlestar Galactica these days, I do miss the humor and whip-smart dialogue that Firefly brought to the screen.


I have to tell ya whedon is one of my favorite Television writers of all time! With Buffy being my favorite show of all time. One poster added that,he liked it less when buffy became to "real worldy". For me that was when the show got better.

Spike was my favorite of all whedon Characters. The buffy spike realtionship was the best thing on television. Buffy was the last show that I got COMPLETLEY involved in. That show was far more than just a good show, it became part of my life!

My top favorite Characters
1. spike
2 Angel and buffy are tie
3. Giles and faith are tie
4 willow
5 xander
6 Cordellia
Reply
post #40 of 837
4/2/06 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes
Annoying sidekick that gets him out of trouble?

Have you actually seen Angel?
No. Never. I actually live in a cave in Outer Mongolia and just come out when the mail comes every nine months.
Reply
post #41 of 837
4/2/06 at 5:39pm
Continued from my prior post.

I think season 2, 6, 7 are my favorite, with season 4 being my least favorite. I was sorry the show went off the air when it did.

As for Angel. I completly loved the 1st season and I've seen the show from time to time throughout the seasons. I keep hearing that last season of angel was really something. I plan on watching it soon to find out for myself, and to catch up on the storyline so I could read that unofficial 8th season of buffy in book form, titled "the queen of the slayers"

I really do hope that whedon comes bact to tv. with either a couple of spike movies and/or a Faith television series.


Keeping my fingers crossed.
Reply
post #42 of 837
4/3/06 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man
I love the nerds. Boreanz couldn't get that accent right, that's for sure. And he kept slipping in and out of it.

With Spike, my big problem is that they kept trying to make him the noble hero. I just never thought he was written that well. I'm talking about seasons 6 and 7 here. I love season 2 villain Spike, I like season 4-5/Angel season 5 snarky Spike, but I hate season 6-7 noble, pained, James Dean spike.
no,no no!!!!


Its almost the other way around!!

Loved The bad boy spike. Liked the transitional period of season 4. Loved ( ...eh for the most part ) of where He was in season 5. Loved so much more of what He was in Season 6 and 7. ( except the attempted rape )


Haven't seen the whole of season 5 of Angel, but the episodes where He was played as a comsdedy side kick! was down right RUBBISH!!!!!
Reply
post #43 of 837
4/3/06 at 7:46pm
[QUOTE=Z-Man]My season-for-season assessment:

Buffy:
Season 1: pretty good, fun show, does a good job setting up the universe.
Seasons 2 and 3: The Greatness.
Season 4: interesting change of pace, stumbles a bit. I think the central story is possibly the weakest of any season, but there are several secondary stories that rock considerably. Great fun to watch.
Season 5: The most emotionally resonant season, one of the best.
Season 6: Huge change in tone that works for me. I love this season. 90% succesful.
Season 7: Great season until the last 5 or 6 episodes, then it just goes wrong. Recovers enough in the last episode to make me still like it.

QUOTE]


Okay, I have to be fair, I rate the angel show i haven't see enough of it except season 1 which I thought was good. 1-10 = 8

Buffy scale 1-10
season 1. = 7.5

season 2 = 10!
season 3 = 9.2
season 4 = 4.5
season 5 = 10

season 6 =10+

season 7 10+
Reply
post #44 of 837
4/5/06 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike1983
Loved The bad boy spike. Liked the transitional period of season 4. Loved ( ...eh for the most part ) of where He was in season 5. Loved so much more of what He was in Season 6 and 7. ( except the attempted rape )
See, I think the attempted rape was one of the only moments of pre-soul Spike being written "right." What made the Buffy/Spike stuff interesting was the idea that Buffy was attracted to this guy who was just an awful person, a classic "bad boy" relationship. But you fuck that up if you make the bad boy actually a good person. Then it becomes some kind of female fantasy, a sexy rebel who's just misunderstood.

Furthermore, isn't Spike supposed to have no soul in those episodes? That's how I would like to have seen it: Spike is a monster incapable of real, selfless love, but his desires resemble love, and thus are mistaken for love by both himself and Buffy. There are mostly cute little references to this--Spike gambles with kittens, Spike is "The Doctor"--but in the way he behaves, he's a virtuous person, and I just think that undermines everything they were going for.

Whedon even sets this all up with Tara's dialogue about the Hunchback of Notre Dame in the season 4 episode that first reveals Spike's crush!
Reply
post #45 of 837
4/5/06 at 3:47pm
Davros wasn't a TV villian?

I'm in the camp that loved Angel more (at least seasons 2-3, and 5), although Season 3 of Buffy was indeed one of the best years of TV, ever. But I like Wesley, Fred, Lorne, and Angel more than the Scooby crew. I especially miss seeing Amy Acker and Alexis Denisof on the screen. (I hear Acker's in Alias...how's the seasons she's in? If you haven't been following the show, and just get the seasons she's in, will you be lost or bored? We came into 24 at season 4, and have no problems following along.)

Caught Michelle Trachtenburg on House last night...girl can act.

We get Tony Head on the next series of Doctor Who this year. Apparently as a villian, which is good. Apparently not as the Master, which is a sad, sad thing.
Reply
post #46 of 837
4/5/06 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man
See, I think the attempted rape was one of the only moments of pre-soul Spike being written "right." What made the Buffy/Spike stuff interesting was the idea that Buffy was attracted to this guy who was just an awful person, a classic "bad boy" relationship. But you fuck that up if you make the bad boy actually a good person. Then it becomes some kind of female fantasy, a sexy rebel who's just misunderstood.

Furthermore, isn't Spike supposed to have no soul in those episodes? That's how I would like to have seen it: Spike is a monster incapable of real, selfless love, but his desires resemble love, and thus are mistaken for love by both himself and Buffy. There are mostly cute little references to this--Spike gambles with kittens, Spike is "The Doctor"--but in the way he behaves, he's a virtuous person, and I just think that undermines everything they were going for.

Whedon even sets this all up with Tara's dialogue about the Hunchback of Notre Dame in the season 4 episode that first reveals Spike's crush!

........I've thought about what you said, and I'm reluctantly agreeing.
But you ( at least myself) can't help wanting to see the 2 natures that spike has to wrestle with, even though you may be right that He is a monstor. For me it makes interseting television.


To be continued.
Reply
post #47 of 837
4/5/06 at 6:41pm
I have just posted a lengthy statement as to why I liked the transformation of Spike's charater! it it failed regester on this thread!


Gosh Darn It!


Breifly I'll just say that Spike shared from time to time the same charateristics, That I have, Thus making my interests personal.

Blah Blah Blah Whatever.
Reply
post #48 of 837
5/3/06 at 12:29pm
Ah yes...Another forum and another Buffy/Angerl appreciation thread...

To say I appreciate Buffy would be a gross misuse of the word "understatement".

I can honestly say that I was in love with that show. Like I had FEELINGS for it. I looked forward to seeing each week with butterflies in my stomach. And like whenever I am infatuated with someone they could disappoint me but I'd still never hold anything against it. Because I knew that it would always, ALWAYS make up for it in spades.

I didn't fall head over heels for it until the end of the first season but I was definitely attracted to it from day one. I remember seeing a TV guide Spring TV preview and seeing that Buffy was going to be a show on the fledgling WB. I said to myself "Well that won't last but I'll check it out".

So that first day I cue up the VCR (I had since fallen into the habbit of taping shows I liked because they often got cancelled and I couldn't watch them anymore) and watched Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest. I was impressed. It made me laugh and I actually cared about these characters right way.

So each week I'd tune in, suprised it was still there to tune in to. I got really hooked when Angel turned out to be a Vampire. I honestly didn't see that coming. I don't know if it was the blinding of infatuation or what but I was shocked and it was then when I knew this show was something special.

Then it happened. Prophecy Girl. The scene where Buffy freaks out about knowing she's going to die. It brought tears to my eyes. A TV show about vampires and highschool. Only something that had me emotionally invested could do such a thing. I was in love.

Each year I'd wait through the long summer for the new season. And each year I'd be blown away. Even at it's worst, it blew anything away on TV I'd seen before, and seen since.

When the show ended I was hurt. Like a friend of mine had left and the only way I'd see them again was by looking at pictures and watching videos of them.

As it stands here are my favourite seasons in order:
Season 5
Season 2
Season 3
Season 1
Season 4
Season 7
Season 6

And I dislike none of them at all.


Angel was ok for me, but lacked something that really made me love it. I liked it but I felt it they messed up the story arc at the end of each season, that is if they had that much of an arc that season to begin with.
Reply
post #49 of 837
9/7/06 at 2:03am
I'm going to revive this since I've been watching Buffy/Angel DVDs latley. Season two, if the finale doesn't hook you, give it up. The music, the its-too-late-moment for Angel gets me everytime.

I know Season six of Buffy takes a lot of shit, but there are some truly disturbing episodes, especially Spike's attempted rape of Buffy.

Angel in comparsion only grew stronger as the seasons progressed. Buffy, like any good show ran of steam, not to a horrible extent or even one that ruined what came before it. Buffy's worst is still better than most shows peak output.

I dislike none of the seasons of either show.

Let's hope we get some big screen adventures soon.
Reply
post #50 of 837
11/9/06 at 8:40pm
Selfish bump because I'm watching Season 3 of Angel on dvd and am still waiting for greatness. I bought all 7 Buffys after catching seasons 2-3 on tv then losing track of the show - the flaws definitely stand out more after rewatching but it remains for me a great show thanks to (as noted above) a mostly-stellar cast and an overall direction that managed to be tongue-in-cheek while still respecting itself as a teenie-kills-vampires tv show. Don't get me wrong, I think Angel is better than most of the shows on tv and I'm pleased to see that it isn't just "Buffy in L.A." But it doesn't have the oomph for me that Buffy did. Looking forward to the rest.

I am puzzled by those who want new Spike or Faith or even Angel movies/series/miniseries. Buffy had some great stuff every season, but clearly went on about 2 seasons too long. Sometimes it is a blessing when something like Firefly burns out before it fades away.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Television
CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPORTS, GAMES & LEISURE › Television › The Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel Appreciation Thread