HD-DVD is here. - Page 3

"Optimizing" a film for HD, or simply upscaling it to a HD resolution is not the same as true, native high definition; in fact, it can actually make the image look worse. It's really the same basic idea as, say, scanning a photo into your computer. If you scan something at 75dpi, it's not going to have the same level of detail as something you scanned at 300dpi, and no matter what you do with it, it's always just going to be a 75dpi image, even if you print it out and re-scan it at 300. With DVD, the film transfer is done at a resolution low enough so the data will all fit onto the disc, and if you "upscale" that image, you're just upsacling a low-resolution image--you can't change the fact the what's on the disc will always be a low res scan of the film. High Definition formats, on the other hand, offer more storage space, which means more room for a higher resolution version of the film; and yes, the difference is huge--don't believe people who tell you it looks the same. Colt is right; go see it for yourself.

I doubted this was is far from over. I think it will run alongside the Iraq War.

The biggest backer of HD-DVD (the inferior format developed by Toshiba & NEC) is Microsoft. HD-DVD's code runs of MS software. MS is losing the multimedia war to Sony and Apple. No way they're gonna give this one up.

Blu-Ray (the superior format with the stupid name developed by Sony) is backed by more studios and tech companies than it's competitor. It runs on Java. Sony has lost 3 major wars:

1.- Beta lost to VHS
2.- Atrac format lost to mp3.
3.- Their portable music players got sent to the stone age and back and back again by the iPod.

After investing tens of millions on dev cost, Sony is not gonna let this one die.

One thing we can be thankful for is the prices of the HD-DVDs.

Jesus, this should've been around when Marino was was throwing to Clayton & Duper.

I've been a dvd guy since 2000, and I'm going to stick with it until it dies off. I don't even have an HDTV set. So what's the point of converting now, my collection is too big for me to just switch over to another format so late in this ones game. And dvd's are so cheap. I will however be getting a playstation 3 down the road when they become affordable, and I've heard that they can play blu-ray, much like the ps2's back in the day could play dvd, so I'll be going with blu-ray when the time is right.

Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are backward compatible, so there is no need to trash your entire collection. Whenever I make the switch (most likely Blu-Ray)I plan keep most of my stuff and only replacing the special titles (LOTR, Matrix, SW)

I didn't know about the backwards compatability. Thanks for the info royle. I guess I'll get an actual blu-ray player when it becomes affordable, but then again when I got my sony dvd player in 2001, (2000 was when I used my computer to play my dvds) it cost 250.00, although this was a birthday gift from my mother, so now I'll have to shell out the cost. What's the price on blu-ray going to be anyway? 500 bucks like HD-DVD?

So... how many times have you molested that HD-DVD player since you got it, Colt?

Story

Thought I read that you did. My bad.

I cant believe they sold out in so many places. The options available are limited. Call me skeptical

I broke down and bought an HD TV at Best Buy this past weekend. As the salesperson is filling out the paperwork, he excitedly tells me that they just got their first shipment of HD DVD players in and he had one left that he could "throw in" for $500. I had to explain to him that if I decided to make an impulse buy of something for $500, I'd have to have a hell of a better reason than he only had one left. Me spending $2000 apparently wasn't enough commission for him.

Best Buy employees don't work on commission.

I am really surprised that the intial reviews of HD DVD are underwhelming.
Most of the writers are saying the the picture quality is not that much better then standard DVD, and that there are plenty of bugs in the machines.
I always wait for a year or so after something new gizmo comes out on the market on the grounds that the first few shipments are going to be full of bugs.

Call me an audiovisual luddite but the only things that make a movie in the theatre look better than on DVD are the screen size and the fact that you are going out. DVD picture quality is pretty damn great. If you own a 60" TV, you might get some benefits from HD-DVD / Blu-Ray. But let's face it, precious few people do.

HD video formats are electronics companies and studios getting greedy after the success of DVD. It ain't gonna fly with the average comnsumer. Or even the hobbyist on a tight budget.

Hyperbole? How? NTSC's awful, washed out colors have been notorious for decades now. "Never The Same Color," "Never Twice the Same Color," "Never Tested Since Christ". I remember back in the early 90's reading about about how people wished the US would just switch to PAL or something.

The thing is, DVDs have been out for a long time. The people involved in making them are really good at what they do. Compare early DVDs with newer ones and you'll see a huge upgrade in picture quality. The HD standard is still in its infancy. Not to mention DVD to HD is an incremental jump.

And its true that you need a damn fine (and big) HDTV monitor to notice things like actors' pores, intricate art direction or anything else that 1080p reveals.

In that context, its not that surprising that most people are underwhelmed by HD-DVD. I just hope the standard sticks around for awhile. At least TVs aren't going to get ridiculously fancier anytime soon.

Corporations that keep pushing the timetable on planned obsolesence are starting to get on my nerves.

Blue still looks like blue, red still looks like red, I can clearly see people and words, I'm happy. HD may be an upgrade but I wouldn't consider gouging my eyes out if I had to switch back from it.

Ha, I can tell from many of the posts above a few of the fellow Chewers here have been reading the initial thoughts fom avsforum. I stopped by my local BB on Friday to check out their display. Here are my random thoughts:

1) They had it setup in the back right corner of the store, away from the TVs, DVDs and even the new Magnolia home theater room. Why???? I had to ask someone for help to show me where it was. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
2) BB employees from all departments kept popping over to look at it. I just love excitement like that over new products.
3) They had it showing on the new 1080p Westinghouse LCD. I was expecting the worst from that set after reading avsforum but I was pleasantly surprised. The picture looked very good, especially for an LCD.
4) The HD demo on the disk shows a "comparison" between standard DVD and HD-DVD. What a joke! The standard DVD images had "simulated" on the bottom because there is no way in hell a standard DVD would look that bad. That amounts to false advertising to me.
5) Overall, after viewing standard DVDs and the HD DVDs on the set I must say that the picture was a definite improvement. I could easily tell which was standard and which was HD-DVD. But I know my wife could not. One of the BB guys even made a joke about how of all the people who stopped by to watch the demos only the guys could see the difference.
6) The BB guys kept talking about all the neat menus, skins, and tricks that HD-DVD can do over standard DVD. I asked them to show them to me. Reply was, "Uh, no, sorry. These fist discs don't do all that yet. But you can see it in the brochure!" Wow, a brochure....

As much as I was pleased (not WOWed though) with the HD-DVD I still believe the increase in PQ and sound is not enough for the average consumer. For example, there is no way my parents would ever purchase one b/c they wouldn't be able to see the difference. And being baby boomers, they are in the demographic with the most disposable income.

Lastly, the BB guys told me that the $499 player was sold out and on backorder. Said that they don't expect to have any new ones available on the floor for weeks if not longer due to the high backorder. They did say the $800 player will be in next week or so, but they expect to sell that out in a few days also. No thanks!

JS

$800 for a player?! Fuck, $500 is insanity.

It's really fascinating to me to read the various viewpoints regarding the necessity and value of HD discs versus standard-definition DVD. Yet as trite as it may sound, it really boils down to one's personal taste and priorities. While the objective quality of HDTV versus standard definition is easily measurable, the value of one format over the other is clearly subjective.

I'll readily admit that I'm a long-time early adopter, so you can guess where I stand regarding the new HD disc formats versus standard DVD. I'm also one of the first people I know who had hands-on experience with LD, CD, mp3, DVD and HDTV. In each case, I made sure I knew exactly what the strengths and weaknesses of each format was before I bought. I try really hard not to make uninformed decisions when it comes to consumer electronics. I even build my own PCs so that I get EXACTLY what I want out of my computer. But despite my fanaticism I've never begrudged my friends who decided to wait until new formats became mainstream. Depending on your financial situation, it's often the prudent thing to do. I only really take offense when the "wait till it's cheap" crowd behaves like they're somehow smarter than those who jump in early. They seem to be under the delusion that the format got cheaper BECAUSE the waited. As if, by not buying, they forced the electronics companies to lower their prices. This displays a fundamental ignorance of the economics of consumer electronics. News flash: DVD players didn't get cheap because you refused to buy. They got cheap because every person who bought one before you lowered the cost of production enough to justify it. It's called economy of scale. You want to know what happens when EVERYONE decides to wait? You get elcassette, digital cassette, CED video disc, DAT and MD. Formats (some of them technically brilliant) that either died off completely or became niche products.

Ripping on early adopters is both ill-informed and ungrateful. Do early adopters take risks by buying in early? Yes they do, but it's a calculated risk. But don't think for a moment that they do so ignorantly. I guarantee you that most of them know more about what they're buying (both in terms of technology and market viability) than J6P ever will. It's the nature of the beast. They're also more likely to appreciate the value of HD discs (HD-DVD or Blu-ray) because they're the ones with the tweaked-out big HDTVs in the first place. If you see an HD disc on a properly set up screen that's measured in feet rather than inches, it IS worth it.

Which brings us to the issue of how good is good enough? As stated earlier, some of the opinions on this thread are based on misinformation regarding what really constitutes an HDTV picture. The first thing to understand is that "digital" is not synonymous with HDTV. DVDs are digital, but they are limited to 480 lines of horizontal resolution. VHS had around 240 lines. HDTV is capable of up to 1080 lines of resolution which, percentage wise, is an even greater jump in video resolution than going from VHS to DVD. Whether this is visible or not depends on several factors including the quality and size of the display, the average viewing distance from the screen (which determines overall field of view), and how accurately the display is set-up. This last point is no less important than a properly tuned performance car when it comes to getting your money's worth. If properly set up, HD-disc movies can actually exceed the perceived quality of a theater presentation, especially when you consider that the projection systems in many movie theaters are atrociously maintained.

Do you make it a point to avoid seeing movies in specific theaters because they look and sound like crap? If so, you are making a subjective decision that the presentation in that theater is not "good enough," even though the difference in quality between the shitty theater and the premium venue is almost certainly smaller than the difference between standard DVD and HD-DVD or Blu-ray. Why then, is it such a stretch to believe that some people may want to make the same choice in their own home. Is it conspicous consumption? Sure, but there are people who would argue that so is having a $8 hamburger or an $6 bottle of Belgian beer, but I have friends who scoff at buying an HDTV who do both all the time.

Before I had a kid and our household income went from 2 people to 1, I was usually one of the early adopters as well. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure the new HD DVD stuff probably looks outstanding, I just haven't seen a display of it yet (neither Best Buy nor Circuit City didn't have anything set up when I was in there last week). Plus, I'll drop the money on a DLP TV first, as the only HDTV I have in my house is my 26" CRT upstairs. My big screen downstairs is still a regular 52" TV, non-HDTV. Believe me, if I had the money, I probably would have been tracking down a player as well.

I got a press release this morning about the ULTRAVIOLET DVD, which will supposedly drop in standard and BLu-Ray discs at the same time.

Blu-Ray price: $38.95 MSRP. ($10 more than the standard disc.)

So that movie is going to suck at a higher resolution?

Yeah, that is pretty high. But then again, the Serenity HD-DVD that's currently available has an MSRP of $34.95 but can be bought in many places (including Target.com) for less than $25. I'm betting street prices for Blu-ray will also be reduced accordingly.

Excellent post Ktak.

JS

I don't blame you, neither would I. All I'm saying is that NTSC is a 70 year old technology, and it shows. If you're fine with NTSC, that's great. You've saved that money, and I can totally respect not spending it on a wasting asset.

I dont really want to get a HD-DVD player, but if they look as good as movies in HDTV. I would tend to disagree. I think movies (even old ones) generally look better than my upscaling DVD player.

When I do get an HD-DVD player, it will be for movies like Cars (as you mentioned, Pixar). I watched teh trailer on my 360 and it looks absolutely stunning. The movie looks great too.