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In Defense of HALLOWEEN II

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
I used to think HALLOWEEN II was crap. Just a shoddy knock-off of the original. And this from someone who enjoys every other film in the series in some way or another. But last weekend I watched it again and realized that while it's still a knock-off, it's far from shoddy. It's certainly not a great film, but it works better than it should for at least two reasons:

- Dean Cundey. With Cundey as DP, the film manages to retain much of the visual style of the original, opening with another long tracking shot from Michael's POV and adding more neat tracking shots along the way. There's a wonderful visual texture to the film that doesn't exist in the later Myers sequels.

- John Carpenter & Debra Hill. The script isn't exactly the pinnacle of cinema, but what I really love it for is its sense of pacing. And I was pleasantly surprised at how little screen time Laurie gets. If HII were made today, most of it would consist of flashbacks and FX-boosted dreams while Laurie waits in the hospital for Michael to get her. But HII takes its time setting up the confrontation while Michael goes about dispatching the hospital staff in fun ways. Yes, some moments are taken directly from the original (Laurie standing outside the hospital while Michael bears down on her), but I think the mirror effect works for the film rather than against it.

One technical thing I didn't like was the way Carpenter's score was used. In the original it was simpler, less dressed up, but HII was awash in overloaded synths. I'm not against the use of synths (the original used them beautifully) but they seemed to be going for the wall of sound effect rather than the sparseness of the original which worked so well.
post #2 of 39
No need to defend Halloween 2. I love that movie. Though not as good as the original, I still think it's a solid horror movie. I just found it odd that the hospital pretty much closed on Halloween night.
post #3 of 39
What I'd really like to hear is someone defend Halloween 3: Season of the Witch.

I only saw it once upon it's release, and to this day, I can't get that fucking "...Silver Shamrock!" song out of my head. Add on that they didn't even have the common decency to include one gratitious nude scene of Stacey Nelkin's spectacular rack and you have removed any and all justification for this film's existance.
post #4 of 39
Whole-heartedly agree with the respect for Halloween II. That said, it's been quite a while since I saw the movie, so I'm not sure how well it holds up - especially in comparison to the original.

What I like most about the movie is how it builds on the first, the storyline immediately moving forward without any unneccesary exposition. Everything about the movie blends very well with the first, so it does feel like the second half of one story. I think those elements that you consider knock-offs were intentional decisions meant to tie the two movies together.

Also, you have to love the use of "Mr. Sandman" as the closing song.

Halloween II might not be very original, but it is a decent follow-up, something that can't be said for the other movies in this series.

I still wish Halloween IV had been the second half of the mask story introduced in Halloween III. Silver Shamrock indeed.
post #5 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by burtyoung
I think those elements that you consider knock-offs were intentional decisions meant to tie the two movies together.
I should've mentioned this in the first post because that's how I feel too. It was a neat symmetry to the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Surge
Add on that they didn't even have the common decency to include one gratitious nude scene of Stacey Nelkin's spectacular rack and you have removed any and all justification for this film's existance.
Whoops, something else I forgot to mention. In the spectacular rack department, Pamela Susan Shoop beats PJ Soles hands fucking down.
post #6 of 39
Don't forget Lance Guest nearing the apex of his career.
post #7 of 39
Can we agree without argument that, by miles, it's the best Halloween sequel?
post #8 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfunk
Can we agree without argument that, by miles, it's the best Halloween sequel?
It would be nice if we could, but unfortunately it suffers from a crippling lack of Busta Rhymes that has been the bane of so many horror films.
post #9 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfunk
Can we agree without argument that, by miles, it's the best Halloween sequel?
Schwartz's dead-on Busta Rhymes argument notwithstanding, I don't know if we can. My favorite of the sequels is probably RETURN, with CURSE and H20 right there. After seeing it again, I'd probably seat HII right behind RETURN on my list.
post #10 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slestak
Don't forget Lance Guest nearing the apex of his career.
It's also notable for its early Leo Rossi performance.
post #11 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick
It's also notable for its early Leo Rossi performance.
Not to mention Dana Carvey.
post #12 of 39
Yes its the best Halloween sequel. The music does get a tad overbearing but something about that Hospital and the way its all shot with Michael walking around is creepy.
post #13 of 39
Not a huge fan at all. Especially the whole sister deal.

And I still think the best sequel is SEASON OF THE WITCH.
post #14 of 39
I like Halloween II, as far as sequels are concerned, there are worse follow-ups - like 4,5,6,7, and 8.
It feels "appropriate" as a sequel, in story -obviously- and stylistically, as I understand it, Carpenter basically took the film away from the questionably skilled Rick Rosenthal.
It's unfortunate that fans of the series had such an adverse reaction to III because I really liked their game plan to make every sequel a stand alone film connected to the first two in name only.
It was a very original and progressive approach that I think many of us now regret didn't come to fruition.
post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
It would be nice if we could, but unfortunately it suffers from a crippling lack of Busta Rhymes that has been the bane of so many horror films.
"Trick or treat, motherfucker!"

"'ey Mikey! Happy fuckin' Halloween!"
post #16 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny
as I understand it, Carpenter basically took the film away from the questionably skilled Rick Rosenthal.
I'd like to hear more about this. I hadn't heard that story.

One stylistic touch I didn't like was the fact that you could see Michael's eyes through the mask in many scenes. Maybe it had more to do with the film's overall lighting scheme, which was brighter than the first film, but it still sucked.
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
And I still think the best sequel is SEASON OF THE WITCH.
Tell me you're joking Charlie. Or at least under the influence of heavy medication.
post #18 of 39
SEASON OF THE WITCH is a fun Tales From The Crypt-style movie with a great villainous turn from Dan O'Herlihy AND the annoyingly OTT Silver Shamrock jingle. Also Tom Atkins is a lot better than the other leading schlubs they got for the other sequels.

But I will also say that HALLOWEEN II, while entirely uninspired and quite silly in points, is a lot more watchable than every other Myers sequel barring H20. I wouldn't watch it over any other competent slasher, but it's not offensively bad or anything.
post #19 of 39
Leo Rossi is great but doesn't get enough screentime.

"amazing grace come sit on my face"
post #20 of 39
halloween 1 and 2 were the best then it started to go down hill:
halloween 3 Nothing to do with the series at all (androids? wtf)
Halloween 4 was ok but getting a rested umm sure that will stop him
Halloween 5 who the fuck was the guy in the blackcoat and guns that let him out????
Halloween 6 yeah wont go there
H2O was actually decent when it came out and did an ok job
Resurection, good way of brining back myers but went down hill.
post #21 of 39
Whats with this love for H20? Thats a terrible horror movie let alone Michael Myers flick. While I thought part 6 was stupid in a lot of ways it at least was more entertaining and had Paul Rudd dammit!
post #22 of 39
While the original film's like eating a delicious Thanksgiving feast, the first sequel gets by with pure fast-food tricks. But it's convenient and tasty while it lasts.

The way the hospital scenes are shot gives the film a congested and trapped feeling, which definitely helps when it comes to making the audience uneasy and apprehensive. Rosenthal's style and technique just isn't as fluid and natural as Carpenter's.
post #23 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
While I thought part 6 was stupid in a lot of ways it at least was more entertaining and had Paul Rudd dammit!
The final cut sure got fucked up somewhere along the line, but I'm an H6 (or H666, depending on which poster you've seen) apologist. There's just something about it I can't help but like.
post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero
The final cut sure got fucked up somewhere along the line, but I'm an H6 (or H666, depending on which poster you've seen) apologist. There's just something about it I can't help but like.
Its complete and utter bulldozing of the Myers mythos?
post #25 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuniorMint
Its complete and utter bulldozing of the Myers mythos?
More like endless carnage. Taken on its own, it's a fun slasher movie with a fucked up ending.
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
While I thought part 6 was stupid in a lot of ways it at least was more entertaining and had Paul Rudd dammit!
i loved paul rudd in this. it's too bad he hated the halloween experience. one of the my favorite scenes was when he was banging a fire extinguisher at a doorknob to get kara out of the room when michael suddenly poped out from around the corner and good ole paul has this big smirk on his face and goes back to bangin' away. totally priceless.

halloween 2 was a solid sequel. it pales in camparison to the original but that's what usually happens anyways. i hate that michael got shot in both eyes but miracously regained his vision for part 4. oh well, there had to be a sequel. i'm just happy they never went ahead with the proposed 3-D movie that would take place in chicago where michael would hold a bunch of kids in school hostage to draw laurie, now a cop, in.
post #27 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heLL pAso
i'm just happy they never went ahead with the proposed 3-D movie that would take place in chicago where michael would hold a bunch of kids in school hostage to draw laurie, now a cop, in.
Wow. That's a huge leap forward in evolution for a guy who can't find Laurie the night he tries to kill her until he overhears someone say she's at the hospital.
post #28 of 39
My problem with Halloween II is that it's tepid. It starts off really well going into the credits, and then it's fairly boring for an hour. It definitely picks up once Loomis finds out the Laurie/Michael connection, and I like the final chase scene quite a bit. But as a sequel, I'd rate it below H4 and H20.
post #29 of 39
It's a solid sequal. For me it falls right behind part 4.
post #30 of 39
I love Season of the Witch, too. It has one of Carpenter's best scores, a great villain right out of a Bond film, a hot female lead, Atkins, a couple of nasty deaths and a terrific bummer ending. I dug it.
post #31 of 39
If people would get the Myers shit out of their head before watching III, it can be enjoyed for what it is.

If the sequels must continue, let's see the anthology concept brought back. Think of it, they could go anywhere and tell any kind of creepy story. I'm sick of the Myers zombie shit. They lost me when they ruined H20.

As for II, it works, mostly. Can't go wrong with a needle to the eyeball!
post #32 of 39
The UK Special Edition of HII has a fantastic commentary by genre writers Kim Newman and Stephen Jones who kind of revisit it right then and there for the first time in a while. Well worth a listen to a nice evaluation of a pretty solid fight fest in its own right.
post #33 of 39
That commentary, and the one they did for SEASON OF THE WITCH, is ace. Their discussion of the hot tub scene is worth the price of admission alone.
post #34 of 39
Thread Starter 
Just out of curiosity, what's the take of those commentaries? Nostalgic? Humorous? Appreciation? Trivia?
post #35 of 39
All of the above, essentially. They take jabs at the film's silliness but it's clearly affectionate, and often detour into discussing the merits of the original. Plus they know more useless HALLOWE'EN facts than anyone still breathing, I'd imagine.
post #36 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murrow
All of the above, essentially. They take jabs at the film's silliness but it's clearly affectionate, and often detour into discussing the merits of the original. Plus they know more useless HALLOWE'EN facts than anyone still breathing, I'd imagine.
That sounds pretty damn awesome.
post #37 of 39
They make a really, really good case for expert commentaries to be used on more than just the movies where all the participants have been dead for twenty years. I'd recommend picking up HALLOWE'EN II on import if you've got some loose change, expecially as you've got no small amount of love for the movie anyway.
post #38 of 39
I have to go with the original for the best, of course. Then part 2 and then part 3. After they I wouldn't take them if they were given to me.

Some may not know that Carpenter wanted 2 to be the last movie with Mike. He wanted the series to be a completely different, unrelated story every Halloween. I think that's a much better idea than just another "by the numbers" movie every Halloween with some stuntman walking through another tired stalk and slash movie. And now Rob Zombie will give us another unimpressive Halloween movie to add to the already to long list of bad sequels or remakes or whatever he's calling his movie this week.
post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgosi
Some may not know that Carpenter wanted 2 to be the last movie with Mike. He wanted the series to be a completely different, unrelated story every Halloween. I think that's a much better idea than just another "by the numbers" movie every Halloween with some stuntman walking through another tired stalk and slash movie. And now Rob Zombie will give us another unimpressive Halloween movie to add to the already to long list of bad sequels or remakes or whatever he's calling his movie this week.
I recall Carpenter saying that the sister twist was born out of sheer creative atrophy. He was looking at the blank page in his typewriter, and knew he had nowhere left that he wanted to go with the characer, and just thought "fuck it". I tihnk his intentions for the franchise are fairly well illustrated by the ridiculously overblown conclusion....shame that Akkad felt the need to retcon it into Dr Cellulite-Face & The Unstoppable Shatner.

All that said, I'm pretty interested to see what Zombie will do with the property. He's by far the most talented post-Carpenter director to try his hand at it.
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