The Composers, Scores, and the Chewers Who Love Them Thread - Page 20

Omg, I hate the internet. I sometimes forget where I talk about things on different boards. I love Powell's X-Men score and am very aware of the themes. There are more themes than just the "Dark Phoenix Theme".

I'm talking specifically about the Bourne films and Green Zone. Perhaps I shouldn't have used "alot". But it isn't only Ottman...

Not sure about Green Zone since I haven't listened to it much, but Powell's scores for the Bourne trilogy are VERY thematic while serving as fantastically propulsive action/thriller music.

You know what's a great score? The Karate Kid Part II. Fuck you, it is. Bill Conti rocks the whole film from opening to close. The film itself is still pretty solid, but something about the score makes me connect with the film even more. The first film's score has the same Miyagi theme but also gets caught up in a bunch of pop songs and 80's synthisizers. Part II could've been a full blown martial arts epic score, taking Miyagi's theme and just going to town with it. It's probably my favorite of Conti's work.

I guess then my issue with them is that they aren't symphonic. But I couldn't really pick out discernible themes in what I considered ambient noise.

Recently picked up the Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves DVD for a bargain price at Giant Eagle. Unfortunately that got me a DVD that I actually had to eject and flip over 3/4 of the way through. I simply thought they forgot to burn the rest of the movie I was so confused.

Anyhoo, forgot how great the score was and picked it up since. Michael Kamen's score is great.

I am curious if any Chewers would agree with me here: Elliot Goldenthal's BATMAN FOREVER score is better and more 'batman-y' than Elfman's famous (and admittedly rousing) BATMAN theme. To my ears, after reexamining the two, Elfman's score feels kind of generic. The Goldenthal's music feels alot weirder and more daring IMHO

The bar for superhero anthems had been set by Williams' brilliant Superman score 10 years prior. Batman was Elfman's first MAJOR film score & the result is a vibrant, melodically intricate work woven with the blood & sweat of a hungry artist with alot to prove. Goldenthal's BF score may be weirder but it's also glaringly verbose to the point of parody.

Stop listening to music with your feet.

Paprika's soundtrack is amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BiIVOJvSko

I agree 100% Hell, I've always wondered why, out of all the super heroes, was Batman the one that was picked to be all campy as hell. I mean it's about a guy who watches his parents get killed, and then proceeded to dress up as a bat in order to strike fear into criminals. (I'm guessing it has to do more with his "rouges gallery", then Batman himself.)

HAHAHA ok, I LOL'd reading this. Hell, I still have a Amadeus flipper disk.

Depends on the definition of "batman-y" you have Kate, but Elfman's is anything but generic. Elfman's score > Goldenthal's.

Shark, glad you have stumbled upon it. It was the best thing about the film imo. Bought the soundtrack right after I walked out of the theatre all those years ago... (Yes I realize it has only been 4 years)

I guess I say "generic" because in the years since, Elfman has churned out many similar sounding scores (DICK TRACEY, ETC), which I think have diluted the power of the original. It no longer feels to me like BATMAN specific music. At this point, I prefer his BATMAN RETURNS work (with it's haunting chorale flourishes) over the original theme

Also, the Goldenthal theme feels like it could concievably be used in the Nolan films

I'm not usually a fan of music, and as such may be unfamiliar with the vocabulary used for the discussion of music theory. Could you explain what you mean when you say that instrumental music is "verbose to the point of parody"?

Anyway, I like the Elfman score (really like it), but like I said above, it's been diluted over the years IMHO I don't know what this means. Are you talking about the BMF theme being more danceable? Because I don't think that's the case

PS I love the Williams SUPERMAN theme!

Yeah but then you are taking the score out of context because you are comparing it to scores that came after, not before. I would perhaps agree had all the similar sounding scores come before, but they didn't. As in, it diminishes the scores that follow, not the original score. But that is a different conversation.

Anyways, again it's what you believe Batman is and setting for which it is made. Nelson Riddle's score in 1966 worked for the film, just as Elfman's worked in 1989 (not to mentioned inspired many score lovers I talk to). The styles are considerably different and to say Goldenthal's score is better because it would fit better in the Nolanverse isn't a strong argument imo. If anything, in my mind, that could be take to mean Goldenthal's score is generic sounding Zimmer music and is easily switchable. I don't believe that by the way.

Fair enough, for me that kind of thing can work retroactively too. Let's agree to disagree
That wasn't quite what I meant. I like it better because of how it sounds, not simply because it could fit thematically into the Nolan verse. However, that versatility definitely a plus as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think that makes it generic. It just means that it's a great Batman theme that could work (with slight tweaking) in other BATMAN movies.

Retroactive criticism doesn't bother me, and I think it is good to do. Perhaps you should explain how the Elfman score sounds generic (or even what generic means to you) instead of just using the term in a generalized fashion. There are so many complexities to the creation of a score.

Yes, I'm quoting myself....according to Bear McCreary's Twitter, the set will be out in October!

Anybody springing for Lala's 14-disc Star Trek: The Next Generation-- The Ron Jones Project? Holy moley.

It's actually coming from FSM, not LaLa. And no I'm not.

Not a chance in hell. I wouldn't want to hear one disc of that droning new-agey synthesized nonsense, much less fourteen. Gah.

IMHO, the best television music composer of all time is Jeff Beal, who frequently works with HBO. His work on ROME especially is magnificent, and better than most film scores (I'd single out the TRIUMPH track from season one episode ten)

I mean that the sort of opening section of the Elfman theme works for me as Batman music, but at this point the main fanfare doesn't feel like it has much to do with Batman, it sounds like music for any dark superhero adventure film.. and that is partly Elfman's fault for recycling his themes endlessly for the next 20 years.

The Goldenthal music has a more complex note progression that I feel better represents a complex character like Batman

I believe the Extended Cut DVD has a remixed version of the soundtrack album (minus the songs, I believe) in 5.1.

I've been contrary as long as I can. For me, Elfman's Batman theme has represented more the Batman the movie, than Batman the character. There are multiple reasons why, but there it is. Suffice to say, I'm not a huge fan of Elfman's Batman score.

Spider-Man does have a lot of similarity.

Would you mind explaining how it is more complex? I will say that I'm not a big fan of Goldenthal's Batman either, but the theme does represent Batman the character better for me.

Listening to the 5 free tracks from The Social Network and wondering if 2010 is the return of the electronic score with that, Tron, and parts of Scott Pilgrim.

I got a very updated 80's vibe from The Social Network score. Blade Runner-esque in my mind.

Anyway, first thing that came to mind this morning.

The soundtrack to...The Expendables, is clearly not...Expendable, as it is...Awesome!

I'm really digging these tracks but I hear more Tangerine Dream in there. Some of "Eventually We Find Our Way" could have come straight out of SORCERER. But yeah, I'm really enjoying this mini-resurgence of electronic scoring.

As for THE SOCIAL NETWORK, I have to say that I don't think I've gone from total apathy to salivating anticipation this fast before. I've long been a major Fincher fan but the rancid misfire of BENJAMIN BUTTON really scared me. From all accounts, it sounds like he's back on track in a big way. Can't wait to see it.

So John Scott's Greystoke score is being reissued. Never seen the movie (would like to), but does the rest of the score sound like this? It's lovely.

Greystoke was one of my favorite scores back when I owned it on audio cassette. It's been killing me that it's been unavailable this whole time. This is great news.

I've always considered Scott a real dark horse. Doomed never to be appreciated to the degree he deserves. Sure, like any composer, he's got some less than stellar or outright "phoned in" work, but on the balance he's shown stirring sensibility more often than not. Not to mention a keen degree of diversity. Let's face it, it's hard not to, let's say, appreciate a range that gives you GREYSTOKE and YOR!

More of a journeyman composer than prestige one (Williams), his real stunning efforts got lost in the din.

Seems to me he was also one of those victims of that orchestral "dark age" in the 80s where the lure of cheap and techno took over for a bit. The darkness I helped contribute to with my Faltermeyer, LeVay, Carpenter and Moroder and the Dream championing.

I hated that era of film scoring so much. They sound even worse now. Nothing dates an 80's film like a droning synth score. I would expect it from a low-budget horror movie, but A-list directors were allowing that shit to pollute their work.

I love Goldsmith's Hoosiers and also Conti's Rocky II (yes I know that was '79). I like synth alright as long as it is meshed with a symphonic sound (real instruments). Otherwise, it does stand out on it's own accord as almost grotesque.

Nobody merged electronics with orchestra like Goldsmith. He was the master.

But yes, I'm referring to artists like Tangerine Dream and Giorgio Moroder. I never could get behind that sound, and it now makes many 80's movies feel hopelessly of their time.

I reserve special disdain for Wang Chung, whose score for To Live and Die in LA made me dislike the film more than it really deserved. Although I still think it's pretty overrated.

Oh yeah I totally agree about the Tangerine Dream and Giorgio Moroder stuff. In fact, I despise Moroder for what he did to Williams "Superman Theme". It is horrific...lol

That doesn't ring a bell, and I'm not sure I want to know.

But I kind of do.

I don't know man...it's pretty bad. It is on the FSM box set, but hey shoot me your email and I'll let you hear it.

Tangerine Dream is responsible for sullying more films than it should be legally allowed. Their score for THE KEEP is all different kinds of shitty, and how they got chosen over Goldsmith's work for LEGEND still baffles me.

As for scores this year goes, who is you guys' early front runner pick for the Best Score Oscar? I think Zimmer's INCEPTION has the edge since I'm becoming more and more certain that the film is going to own the ceremony next year, but in my heart nothing has hit the sweet spot like John Powell's HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON. The "Test Drive" track is pure bliss.

I haven't even seen Dragon yet, much less heard Powell's score. But I wouldn't bet against Zimmer taking the Oscar, deserved or not. Especially since John Williams doesn't appear to have a dog in the race this year.

Pretty sure Zimmer is going to win at this point. According to Stu Phillips, at his Academy screening, people were cheering at Zimmer's name in the credits.

As far as my favorite, it is also Dragon. I absolutely love Powell's score. And I quite enjoy the film as well.

DAFT PUNK! In Bizarro Oscars.

Then I'm sure you were as equally pained as I by Jerry Goldsmith's full nelson lapse into darkness. Hello, RENT-A-COP! As Taylor mentions, he had a glorious ability to overcome the drawbacks of the hybrid sound. I consider him the master of integration on this end. Of course, he'd been experimenting in that direction from the early 60s. I was gaga over RUNAWAY (myself just getting into keyboard use at the time), but almost all his synth only scores rub my rhubarb.

I think the problem, speaking orchestral vs electronic, was (and is?) the lack of ability of filmmakers (and certainly studio meddlers) to properly figure when one should be chosen over the other. The lean, and ultimate fall, into wall to wall synth scoring seems to me the inevitable result of the rise of "fast food filmmaking" (get it shot, get it out, get it on vhs, get the sequel goin!) that exploded in the 80s. We've all seen liner notes relating the ludicrously shrinking room given to film composers, both in time and money. The whole period did a tremendous disservice to both electronic and orchestral scoring appreciation.

Take CHERRY 2000. A good example where Basil Poledouris brilliantly meshes synth and a full-throated (Jesus, those horns!) orchestra to create a uniquely perfect score for the off-beat film. But, like Goldsmith, when you hit an instance where they went cheap (NO MAN'S LAND) you can feel his abilities being strangled.

It's on the fly, but I'm pretty sure Elfman's BATMAN was the one that hit me like the released prisoners at the end of THE WIZ.

I adore the Eurythmics 1984 music, particularly as a concept album. I even still have DoublePlusGood on a cd in the car. However when I was finally able to hear Dominic Muldowney's lush and haunting score I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made. Director Radford notoriously hated Virgin's imposition of the Eurythmics on the film but obviously lost to the realities of filmmaking that are often lamented in the forum. Imagine my surprise when I picked up MCA's cheap and quiet release of 1984 on dvd only to discover the film scored properly with Muldowney's heartbreaking score (and stirring anthem, natch!).

As a hugerrific fan of both Tangerine Dream and Jerry Goldsmith, you can imagine how the whole LEGEND debacle went down in my tiny little film score fan world at the time.

Like I said, it was a dark and confusing time.

eta: Whoa. I gotta type faster.

Does Williams take any work that doesn't have Spielberg's name on it anymore?

As for Dragon, well, just listen to this and tell me that doesn't get your blood pumping.

Holy shit. I literally got goosebumps.

We got another joining the ranks!! AWESOME!!!

And yeah Greg Clark, seems like Williams only does Spielberg stuff anymore. It's been 5 years since he worked with a different director and even that had Spielberg as a producer.

I'm actually tempted to buy the album without having seen the movie now. It's sitting at the top of my Netflix queue for an October release, so we'll see if I can hold out.

I honestly can't see you being disappointed with the score. I also think you will enjoy the film. But now I'm just kind of repeating myself. If you can't tell, I am very infatuated with the film in all aspects.

The album is worth a purchase, the film doubly so. I think it might be the first time Dreamworks has out-Pixar'd Pixar in the same year. The scene that that bit of the score is from gave me full body goosebumps when I saw it. I actually ended up seeing the film five times, more than any other film this year.

I saw it 3 times and I concur, that scene is just amazing.

I generally don't like to listen to score albums before seeing the film, as I feel like it often robs the film of its first impression. I actually owned the soundtrack to The Empire Strikes Back for two weeks before I got to see the movie, and refused to even unwrap it. I didn't even look at the track titles for fear that it would give something away.

Awesome. That'll be the go-to track in trailers for the next year, I'll wager.

I wouldn't be surprised. It'll be like that triumphant bit of "Rush Hour" from Speed. That showed up in all kinds of inappropriate advertising. I heard it attached to Braveheart once.

I've been a fan of film scores since Elfmans Batman score. Since then, me and my brother have built a large collection of film score albums. There must be more than 2000 cd's in the collection now although in the last few years I've been getting my scores mostly in digital format. Jerry Goldsmith easily wins as the composer whose albums we have the most but there's a lot of Horner, Williams and Zimmer as well along with various other composers. Anyway, I was browsing through the collection when I came across this little gem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbhp...eature=related. I had totally forgotten this until I listened to it again (we only have this as an LP). If I remember correctly, Michael Kamen was somehow involved in this score (additional composer I assume). Out of the very few Mancini scores in our collection, this really stands out. Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out to the score lovers here. Btw, the score for How to train your Dragon really sounds awesome judging from the youtube clips, so I'm going add it to the collection really soon. If you're looking for something similar from Powell, I recommend to try out the scores to Paycheck and Chicken Run.