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"Finally! Animation with emotive faces!"

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I wish I was making this up.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...TL&type=movies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick LaSalle
Animated films always had the advantage of being able to go anywhere and show anything, to defy the laws of physics and follow the imagination as far as it could go. But they never had the ability to show the human face. There was never any point to a close-up in an animated film -- there was never really anything to see. But with the motion-capture process, real actors give their performances with computer sensors attached to their face and body, and that recorded information becomes the template for the computer animation. If an actor is bug-eyed, the character will look bug-eyed. Moreover, if the actor is thinking or is full of doubt, the technology will be able to render subtle qualities of pensiveness or doubt in the animation.

Imagine what Disney might have done with this in the creation of the Seven Dwarfs. Imagine all the things that will be done with this in the future. "Monster House" looks like the ground floor of something important.
Found this at Cartoon Brew.
post #2 of 14
Well that's retarded. He's saying the emotive qualities of the kids' faces in Monster House were new and groundbreaking and actually eclipsed Disney's work? Idiot.
post #3 of 14
I'm just glad motion capture gave animation the ability to show MOVEMENT. Because before it was just a series of still pictures.
post #4 of 14
This is the kind of idiocy that's killed cel animation. "It looks more real; that means it's better."
post #5 of 14
I don't get. Is he really saying that hand animated characters didn't show emotions, or am I just reading this wrong?

Because if he is, this really has to be the most insane thing I've read all week.
post #6 of 14
This bugged me so much, I actually used the link to send the guy an e-mail. Are there any criteria whatsoever in being a movie critic? At the very least, having seen a lot of movies seems like a good prerequisite. Clearly, this guy doesn't even pass that test.

Edit:
And the guy actually wrote back. We're engaged in a back and forth right now. If it gets interesting, I'll post the conversation.
post #7 of 14
Here's what we've got so far (me in yellow, him in red)

Clearly, you haven't seen much animation, or you haven't paid much attention when you have. If you're seriously making the case that traditional cel animation was incapable of depicting facial expressions, then you apparently require some grounding in the genre. It astounds and irritates me to see a movie critic so ridiculously uninformed in his own area of "expertise". I suppose it just goes to show that there is very little criteria involved in becoming a movie critic, even down to just having seen a lot of movies.

"Imagine what Disney might have done with this in the creation of the Seven Dwarfs"? Good lord, man.


It's not a matter of information but of preference. I prefer the look of motion capture animation to cell animation, at least in the examples I've seen.

But that wasn't what you said. Your article stated, among other things, that cel animation "never had the ability to show the human face. There was never any point to a close-up in an animated film -- there was never really anything to see". That's not a matter of preference. Certainly, as you approach a higher level of realism in art, you're going to have more ability show realistic expression. That doesn't, however, make the less realistic art form inexpressive. It's a little like saying that photography is a superior art form to painting, since the painting is a less accurate depiction.

Hand-drawn animated character have always shown plenty of facial expression. In most cases, the expression is more exaggerated than a real face, but this tradition continues in Pixar's CGI characters as well. My point here is that just because the motion-captured faces show more realistic depictions of emotional expression, it doesn't mean that cel animated faces were frozen, expressionless masks. And anybody who's seen a lot of classic animation should know that.


No, this is a matter of preference. You would have it that anybody should know that a close-up of the seven dwarfs is worth looking at. Well, maybe as an example of visual art, but not in a way anything like a close-up of a person. You can tell yourself that anyone with any brains and discernment should have your opinion, but you're going a lot farther than I am. I'm just stating my preferences -- and I'm not saying anything about you, your taste or your professionalism.

Well, I have to apologize for coming across as attacking you in the first letter; that was probably out of line. It's just that I find your position an odd one for a movie critic, somebody who presumably loves film and has a lot of history with it.

The fact is, cel animation and CG are very different art forms. To view CG animation as an advancement, and say "Imagine what Disney might have done with this in the creation of the Seven Dwarfs" seems a little wrongheaded. It's a bit like saying "Imagine what Carol Reed could have done with The Third Man if he'd been able to make it in color". It's a different process, a different kind of filmmaking.

I suppose time will tell with this technology; maybe face-captured performance will be the new standard, and in the future, all animation will be done this way. Personally, I hope not. I'd rather see it become part of the myriad of animation techniques, rather than see it destroy all the others.


I agree with you, and that's the anxiety I sense behind all this anger coming my way from animators. I certainly don't want it to become the only way to animate characters; I just like it and find it satisfying and interesting in a new way.
post #8 of 14
Yeah, that annoyed me when I first saw it. Too many critics are morons who know less about film then anyone here and just want to see their name on a commercial.
post #9 of 14
Well, it's pretty clear that the guy just doesn't like traditional animation, which, as I said, is a pretty odd thing for a movie critic.
post #10 of 14
That motion capture stuff is still creepy looking. Give me cel animation anyday.
post #11 of 14
Thank you for posting that, Greg.

Even if the opening salvo may have seemed a bit too caustic, it doesn't change the fact that this critic has a view of animation that is incredibly depressing.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to ring up and burn all my Disney & Miyazaki flicks and replace them with The Polar Express, the actualization of animation perfection.
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblemonkey
Now if you'll excuse me I have to ring up and burn all my Disney & Miyazaki flicks and replace them with The Polar Express, the actualization of animation perfection.
OWNT!!!111
post #13 of 14
I will agree with the guy on one thing: it's really really hard to be subtle with facial expressions in ANY form of animation. You can't animate a scene like the slow push to DeNiro at the bar in Goodfellas. If they could ever replicate something that nuanced and subtle in hand-drawn animation, it'd blow minds.
post #14 of 14
I think they could do it, it would just take a lot of care and effort.
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