Where to Begin? - Page 2

That's it.
Preacher is not what you want if you're looking for mythic superhero stories. It's all about striping those mythos down and studying basic human frailties.

I'd say Daredevil Born Again and Batman Year One are some of Frank Miller's best work.

Also, just started Scott Pilgrim. Its pretty rad. I think its interesting how so many people in CHUD who profess to detest anime (or by proxy, its printed cousin, manga) would love Scott Pilgrim, since its got such a strong influence on this book.

Thing is, Pilgrim is as much a parody of anime conventions as it is inspired by them. That, and the style is so unique that it doesn't come across as anything other than Bryan Lee O'Malley's.

I'm not sold on Pilgrim. Does it get better in vol. 2?

Preacher would be infinitely better had it been hacked down to fix or six volumes for the TPBs. There's so much extraneous flab in there-Salvation, I'm looking at you-but the core story is so fun and involving. It's still a must-read though, if only to form your own opinion on it.

Much. And 3 blows both the previous volumes away.

Preacher is a really good 24 issue series stretched out to about 60. Salvation is crap, and can easily be skipped. The Ancient History TPB is useless, and half of most of the other trades (meaning one half of each trade) is some useless detour into Ennis picking easy targets to make fun of.

So its not that manga's conventions are necessarily awful, its just the stories of which they're in service mostly suck. I was under the impression that the "style" was what was so offensive to your pop sensibilities.

No, it's that most manga and anime is utter fucking dreck.

Yeah, I got that. I don't necessarily disagree, either. I was just looking for a little clarity on the "utter fucking dreck" part.

In all of this did we forget to mention Grant Morrison's The Invisibles? For shame if we did, for shame.

For a non-hero book, does anyone have an opinion to share on Black Hole? I pick it up and put it back down every time I'm in the bookstore.

It's very good, but it's a difficult, somewhat uncomfortable read. It requires a bit of an investment if you're going to get into it.

Thanks. That's sorta the sense I was getting and must be why I keep putting it back down. I've been using comics to leaven my more "serious" regular reading rotation, and lord knows I don't need to add another book to my reading list right now. I swear the bookshelf is starting to creak when I walk by. Black Hole looks interesting, but I may save it for another day.

I liked the first Pilgrim book quite a bit. Last great book I read was Blankets. Not in the super hero genre, but I think it's the best graphic novel I've read so far. I only read the first Preacher trade and I thought it was pretty childish. Might be good if you're looking for pulp, though.

I've been meaning to pick up Fables and Rocketo for a while. I've only heard good things about them.

Now that we're getting away from "superhero" recommendations, I'll suggest Moore's "From Hell". From a purely historical perspective, it's drivel (no matter what Moore writes in the index), but a work of art as graphic novel. While it's no stretch to draw supernatural themes into the story of Jack the Ripper, Moore's triumph is drawing metaphysical themes into it, as well. In particular, the chapter in which Sir William Gull and his driver tour London and discuss the city's history and architecture. Of course, the film went on to strip all of that away...

Ripoll would probably like Hellboy and The Goon.

Is that the one where he gets addicted to Venom? 'Cause I'm highly dubious of such a story being any good.

It is, and it's good. It's one of the last Batman stories Denny O'Niel wrote, if not the last one. It's not the greatest Batman story ever, but it's a good one.

Perhaps I shall pick it up. Lord knows shakier concepts have led to good stories in the past.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I'm a huge fan of Preacher and second, third, and fourth any recommendations you read for it. While the others make a point about some of it being useless fat, I myself find such parts to have their own appeal. Yes, they're pretty base, yes they're simple and unnecessary, but damn if they aren't fun. At the very least, the quality of the rest of the series more than makes up for the 'bad parts'.

Do yourself a favor and pick up the trade reprint of Walt Simonson's work on Thor included in the Marvel Visionaries line. It is not a complete collection of his run, but it is worth every red cent you spend on it.

Someone mentioned it briefly, but Superman: For All Seasons deserves to be shouted from the rooftops. It deftly blends the mythic and the personal in every imaginable way Superman Returns didn't.

Also, do yourself a favor and pick up Creature Tech by Doug TenNapel. Great art and damn good story-telling, and it's self-contained so there's no continuity to worry about. I'm really looking forward to his forthcoming Iron West as well.

The best Hellboy trade is The Chained Coffin, a collection of shorts. The other, multi-part storylines are mostly pretty bleah. Storywise, anyway. Mignola's a bit like Frank Miller in that he had a bold artistic vision but once he'd gotten it down on paper he didn't really have anywhere else to go with it.

The Goon sorta feels like it should be in the same category, but it's a hell of a lot more engaging to me. Partly because it's hilarious, partly because the story actually seems to be going someplace. Though I'm not crazy with how the art style has changed--I prefer the old-school EC-style heavy inks that they started with.

Preacher is an often frustrating read that goes way off the track by the time of Salvation. I'm not quite in agreement with the "flab" argument, since we had to spend a certain amount of time just hanging out with and getting to know the characters in order for the climax to be effective. The main problem is Ennis's glee in wallowing in juvenile crap, often at the expense of story.

And I disagree about Ancient History. The backstory of the Saint of Killers is probably the finest single story in the run of Preacher. In fact, it kind of made me wish the whole series had been an actual western in the same style.

Pick up Superman: Red Son it's good elseworlds story, with Superman growing up in communist Russia.

Fantastic Four you say?

Start with Fantastic Four: Unthinkable Trade paperback, and don't stop buyign till you see Mark Waird's name off the credits.

Go! Go now!

I second (or third) the PLANETARY recommendation. For anyone who's generally interested in the concept of superheroes, it's a fantastic little self-contained dose of everything great about the genre. It runs the gamut from dark and cynical to reveling wonder.

Also, Grant Morrison's ANIMAL MAN.

Black Hole is superb, beautiful, insanely uncomfortable and disturbing at the same time. One of my favourite books ever.

100 Bullets, Scott Pilgrim, Box Office Poison, Fables, Concrete and the Goon are all awesome.

For superhero staff that hasn't been mentioned (I think) Morrison's New X-Men is, in my view, one of the best runs of any superhero title. I also rate Bendis's Daredevil and Powers, erm and Ultimate Spidey I think I sense a pattern.

Now thats a helpful post which rendered most of mine redundant. I should really have paid more attention.

Does anyone have any opinions on Morrison's All Star Superman. I am not generally a Superman fan but for some reason (Morrison?) this is tempting me.

It's extremely good. All the best stuff from the silver age reconfigured into something new. It seems to be Morrison's attempt to nod to Superman's entire history in 12 issues.

Yeah, and it is being mirrored in the current story lines in Action and Superman, the main "in-continuity" titles. They have been really careful with Superman lately, with the publics magnifying glass on him and the like. Its a good time to be a Superman Comics fan.

Looking forward to "X-Men: First Class", which will be one of the very few Marvel titles to be on my monthly pull list.

I also noticed everyone is recommending trades, as opposed to singles. So if I am wasting my time here pushing monthlies, gimme a slap.

I'd probably never bought more than a dozen solo Superman comics prior to picking it up. And it's easily one of my favorite titles currently on the stands.

The main Superman titles aren't too shabby right now, either. They might be my favorite tights books coming out right now, actually, and it's been a long time since I've been able to say that. As ChristopherRead said, it's a good time to be a Supes fan.

Give HB a second chance. And definitely the Goon.

The Batman Black & White trades have some interesting stuff in them.
I'm a big fan of Alan Davis' work on Batman & X-Men as well.

Bone is a fun read (there's a huge collection available and new color reprints if you can't get past the B&W look). I love Liberty Meadows and like PVP quite a bit (both comic strips).

I enjoy the new Busiek/Nord Conan stuff.

All Star Superman

Thanks for various responses on All Star Superman, that definately reinforces the vibe I was getting, I will add it to the list.

It will be interesting to see how Morrison looks at Superman in comparison to Moore's Supreme stuff.

It's a lot better.

See now I am impatient for the trade.

I really liked what Moore did with Supreme, never read it before he took the reins but it was clearly a case of 'I wish I was deconstructing the Superman history' for Moore.

By the time Moore "deconstructed" Superman with Supreme, the deconstruction schtick was already old hat and dreary. It should've stayed with Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns. All-Star isn't a deconstruction at all, it's probably the furthest thing from it. It's a twelve issue love note written by Morrison to the Silver Age of Superman, with absolutely fantastic art from Quitely.

Morrison and Quitely are the big draw. Can't comment further as I haven't read it yet but the images I have seen seem to express a particular joy in the sheer comicbook'ness of the Superman concept. Something I liked about the Dini Superman cartoon.

I enjoyed Supreme as an expansion on the themes of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. As to whether deconstruction is old hat and dreary I suppose its a matter of preference. I enjoy Tom Strong as well.

Missing a couple of decades comics possibly helped as well.

Tom Strong is really more "re-construction" than deconstruction.

Fair point, though it is mining the same vein really.

I checked out BATMAN: VENOM over the weekend as per Brad's recommendation, and I concur. It's a fun, intelligent Batman novel that nails the Bats/Alfred dynamic perfectly. I'm a novice with comics compared to most here but I'd definitely say it's a worthwhile purchase.

Plus, you can get Venom for like, five bucks from Amazon.

That does it. Ordered, motherfuckers.

AHAHAHA! Fool!

Er, I mean....good. Good for you.

I've been toying with getting back into comics, the last thing I read was the Morrison JLA run which I loved.

People keep recomending the Dan Slott SheHulk run to me, is it worth a look?

Personally, I think it's brilliant, and (along with Daredevil and Punisher MAX) the best current Marvel book.

It's deeply infused with love for comics and the history of the Marvel Universe, but I've been told by more than one person that even newbies have no trouble getting into it. The stories are well-constructed and imaginative, the characterizations are great, and the dialog is often laugh-out-loud funny.

The only slight hitch is that Marvel hasn't been able to keep a consistent art team on it. That wouldn't be such a big problem if the shifts weren't so drastic-- I love the work of both Juan Bobillo and Paul Pelletier, but to jump from one to the other is jarring, to say the least. They actually got the brilliant Paul Smith on it, but he bailed after two and a half issues.

Honestly, though, the book is good enough to overcome that. Grab the first trade, Single Green Female, and you'll know right quick if it's for you or not.

Took the plunge, it was £6 on amazon.