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Ultimate Avengers 2: Redundancies Assemble!

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 


6/10

The first Ultimate Avengers DTV film represented a big step in the right direction for Marvel Comics animation. Not only were the smooth animation and thrilling fights perhaps the best the Marvel universe has enjoyed, but at a time when rival DC’s superhero cartoons are skewing younger and younger UA endeavored to appeal across a wide age spectrum. However, that trail having been blazed, Ultimate Avengers 2 is a little too content to preserve the status quo.

The film feels a bit like a b-side to the UA single. It slavishly adheres to the same structure, but doesn’t manage to hit the same highs. The generic alien threat and character conflicts are largely recycled, only there are no money scenes that compare to the WWII assault and Hulk’s rampage. Character development remains limited, and while the first film belonged to huge stars Captain America and Hulk, this one is less focused. The introduction of Black Panther is interesting, but when the story centers on his somewhat cartoony African homeland Wakanda an unfortunate Superfriends vibe creeps in. There is one strong emotional moment, but it feels like an afterthought in the busy climax.

Despite the Avengers’ victory over the Chitauri in UA, the aliens remain a serious threat. When his father is murdered by Chitauri leader Kleiser, young T’Challa becomes king of the isolationist Wakanda. He also inherits the mantle of Black Panther, costumed protector of his people. Elsewhere the Avengers are much as we left them: the marriage between the Pyms (Wasp and Giant Man) continues to sour and Cap, tormented by painful memories, becomes a death defying workaholic. An imprisoned Bruce Banner is subjected to unending psychoanalysis of his out of control Hulk rampage, and Thor is troubled by a premonition of his teammates’ deaths. Having been reluctantly contacted in secret by Black Panther, the Avengers travel to Wakanda, where they receive a violently cold welcome from the wary residents. Black Panther reveals that the Chitauri have long coveted Wakanda’s massive deposit of vibranium, which the aliens and Wakandans both use to build powerful weapons. Meanwhile a massive Chitauri mothership approaches Earth.

Black Panther is portrayed as proud and independent, befitting the character’s creation during the 60s heyday of the civil rights movement. His head has apparently developed the ability to transform into that of an actual panther, which is a new one to me.

Romance seems to be in the cards for Cap and Black Widow, though I don’t know long he’ll be able to put up with her grating accent. Iron Man’s suit is revealed to provide support for his weak heart, and there’s a neat look at his huge arsenal of suit designs. Thor gets berated by father Odin for helping the ungrateful humans, but his disapproval doesn’t seem to carry any consequences yet. Disappointingly Hulk is confined to a small cameo this time, while Banner’s relationship with Betsy Ross remains shaky. Again we don’t actually see any domestic violence between the Pyms, although Janet does joke about shooting Hank.

If the cast has a weak spot, it’s definitely the villains. The Chitauri are terribly generic and dull, and even Kleiser is just a garden-variety maniac. In the previous film he assumed the guise of a Nazi officer as a cover during WWII, but inexplicably he keeps it up in the present day. I suppose it makes him look more “evil,” or he’s just attached to the color scheme. I strongly hope that if there is a third film we will finally get to see some proper supervillains such as Kang the Conqueror, Doctor Doom, and Ultron.

None of UA2’s set pieces are real standouts, although the bloody fight in which T’Challa’s father is killed is fairly intense and fans will appreciate the brief confrontation between Cap and HYDRA agents. There’s some silliness with Wakandans beating the Avengers Ewok style, and further scuffles with the tediously invulnerable Kleiser. Though the scale of the climactic battle is impressive, it doesn’t match the urgency or excitement of the attack on S.H.I.E.L.D. HQ in UA. The siege of the Wakandan fortress recalls Return of the King, while the tall spider-like Chitauri war machines which terrorize various capitals seem inspired by War of the Worlds.

The animation quality is nearly identical to the first film, very solid if not breathtaking. I found myself again wishing the art design were a little more imaginative, as the Chitauri forces are represented by green blobs of various shapes and the Wakandan fortress appears to have been lifted from Thundercats.

The extras kick off with an excellent featurette on The Ultimates comic series, in which writer Mark Millar and artist Bryan Hitch speak on its creation and intentions. They talk about concerns such as making the costumes appear more functional and the violence palpably real. There’s an amusing anecdote about how Cap’s crack about France’s willingness to surrender caused a brouhaha among French fans. UA executive producer Eric Rollman says Marvel wanted to make the animated adaptation in traditional 2D because it allows the characters to be more expressive, and I heartily agree with his decision.

Next the bland “What Avenger Are You” DVD-ROM “game” makes an unwarranted repeat appearance, and then we get a gag reel full of very lame jokes using substituted dialogue possibly written by ten year olds. I did laugh at Cap getting a crudely scribbled love letter from Hulk, and was puzzled by Iron Man’s constant references to his rib restaurant (!).

Finally we get to the good stuff, brief glimpses of the upcoming Iron Man and Dr. Strange animated films. Iron Man will reportedly use CGI for the suit, and the story is said to be a battle between technology and mysticism. Those two details have me a little nervous, but otherwise the footage looks great. As magic doesn’t much interest me, neither does Dr. Strange and I’m not really sure why Marvel is even bothering with this lesser known character. Still, the animation looks very nice and spooky.

Those who liked the first film should also enjoy Ultimate Avengers 2, but don’t expect it to cover any new ground. I fear the franchise has already begun to stagnate and could use a good shot in the arm. The Ultimate Ultimate Avengers? Ultimate Avengers Z? Ultimate Avengaz? Heck, anything with Tigra in a starring role.
post #2 of 38
The first one was among the worst things I have ever seen on DVD.
post #3 of 38
A Dr. Strange movie?

I've been waiting for a live action version since Avi Arad commented on getting a "Timothy Leary"-type writer for that project. Whatever this means.

And this thing about T'Challa becoming a panther- my question is the same... did I miss some continuity somewhere?
post #4 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
A lot of bullshit.
Seriously, you have no fucking taste.
post #5 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The first one was among the worst things I have ever seen on DVD.
I can only assume you're not watching enough Seagal DTVs then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfunk
A Dr. Strange movie?

I've been waiting for a live action version since Avi Arad commented on getting a "Timothy Leary"-type writer for that project. Whatever this means.
Hmm... don't know if that project is going anywhere. Sounds like a risky investment.

Quote:
And this thing about T'Challa becoming a panther- my question is the same... did I miss some continuity somewhere?
Admittedly it's been many years since I last bought a comic book so perhaps he's been updated.
post #6 of 38
No, I have seen lots of absolute shit on DVD. This Avengers crap is the worst though. It's stupid, it's poorly animated - it's for retarded children.
post #7 of 38
I love The Ultimates comic, and therefore was pretty disappointed with the first UA movie. It excised all the interesting parts of the story in favor of endless action sequences. I'm not sure why, especially with an animated movie, you'd cut out everything that makes the comic book what it is. Can't say I'm very excited for this sequel.
post #8 of 38
Thread Starter 
One of the biggest problems is that these flicks are too damn short. This one also clocks in under 70 minutes. That's enough time for action and a bit of story, but character stuff gets the shaft. Of course most action animation is like that.
post #9 of 38
Thread Starter 
Double post
post #10 of 38
Double what Supremo said. They showed astoundingly bad judgment in what to keep and what to eject. This is how they do adaptations on Bizarro World. I doubt I'll be spending any time on the sequel.

I'm a big fan of Dr. Strange. But if that movie is being handled the same way, I may not bother with that one either.
post #11 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
...at a time when rival DC’s superhero cartoons are skewing younger and younger UA endeavored to appeal across a wide age spectrum.
I was under the impression that Justice League Unlimited is precisely the sort of thing that these Avengers cartoons try - and fail - to mimic.
post #12 of 38
CAP and Black Widow instead of Janet? Goddamn, they really have no balls, have they?
post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
I was under the impression that Justice League Unlimited is precisely the sort of thing that these Avengers cartoons try - and fail - to mimic.
Bingo. The UA "movies" are piss-poor attempts at appealing to an audience of 12 and up. Justice League Unlimited was doing the same thing far, far better, in the constraints of a 22-minute television format. Hell, Mask of the Phantasm did the same thing far better in '93, and it managed to snag a theatrical release.
post #14 of 38
I will have to admit one thing. It is pretty awesome that Pym basically runs around trying to keep Wasp from jumping on Cap's Patriot Stick(tm).
post #15 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
One of the biggest problems is that these flicks are too damn short. This one also clocks in under 70 minutes. That's enough time for action and a bit of story, but character stuff gets the shaft. Of course most action animation is like that.
Yes, please, give us more terribly dry exposition and character development to make up for the awkward and awesome action animation.

The last episode of Justice League Unlimited is better than both these Avengers flicks combined.
post #16 of 38
Because the Question rams a Parademon in his Mustang, and then punches it in the face.
post #17 of 38





He's just been questioned.
post #18 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead
I was under the impression that Justice League Unlimited is precisely the sort of thing that these Avengers cartoons try - and fail - to mimic.
That was a great show, but it's toast, a victim of mediocre ratings. I was talking about the just finished Teen Titans, the ongoing The Batman, and the upcoming Legion of Superheroes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eo3gOHWFvw



Speaking of mimicry, DC has apparently decided to answer Marvel with its own series of DTV films, including Superman, Teen Titans, and Justice League.
post #19 of 38
Bouncing Boy?
post #20 of 38
He bounces.
post #21 of 38
Well, shit.
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
Speaking of mimicry, DC has apparently decided to answer Marvel with its own series of DTV films, including Superman, Teen Titans, and Justice League.
Because they're never, ever, done it before.
post #23 of 38
Are you always this much of a dullard, Desslar, or do you just like to show off for us?
post #24 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Because they're never, ever, done it before.
Not quite the same though. Those were part of ongoing television series. These are standalone projects, that, like Ultimate Avengers, are apparently based on the comics and intended for a slightly different audience.

"Paul Levitz stood to make an announcement, and spoke about a new strategy for DC to move into direct-to-video animation.

Working with Warner Bros. Home Video and WB Animation, the company will launch a new line of direct-to-video DC animated movies that are being designed with DC Comics fans in mind, Levitz said.

He continued, saying that DC is looking to do a series of titles that will tell the character bits and stories that were important to fans, and will be working with the comic book creators on them. The first title will be the previously-leaked animated film version of Darwyn Cooke's The New Frontier. Cooke will work with Stan (JLU) Berkowitz on the film, with Cooke providing key art direction."
post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
Not quite the same though. Those were part of ongoing television series.
Not really. Both Sub Zero and Batwoman were made way after the series had finished.

Quote:
These are standalone projects, that, like Ultimate Avengers, are apparently based on the comics and intended for a slightly different audience.
Some of the stuff already done has been based on the comics. Hell, the last season of Batman had scenes from The Dark Knight Returns. I don't see how this is in any way, shape or form answering Marvel, since it's something DC have done for a while. If anything, Marvel saw DC's success (most fans hail ROTJ as the best Bat-flick, period) and thought "hmm," along with "what can we do that will make us more cash to produce shitty crossovers?" as opposed to DC and Timm's "Let's make some great fucking cartoons that the fans will love," which they've been doing since 1992, and doing well because they're die hard fans themselves.
post #26 of 38
Upcoming Marvel projects here.

A live action "Skrull Kill Krew" show?
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfunk
Upcoming Marvel projects here.

A live action "Skrull Kill Krew" show?
I call shenanigans on the "Skrull Kill Krew." That has got to be a joke. Both Millar and Morrison have gone on record saying it was a piece of shit. Then only reason it has got any kind of attention is because of both writer's present success.
post #28 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
I don't see how this is in any way, shape or form answering Marvel, since it's something DC have done for a while.
Maybe not, but DC's announcement came a few months after the first Ultimate Avengers disc enjoyed surprisingly healthy sales.

Quote:
If anything, Marvel saw DC's success (most fans hail ROTJ as the best Bat-flick, period) and thought "hmm," along with "what can we do that will make us more cash to produce shitty crossovers?" as opposed to DC and Timm's "Let's make some great fucking cartoons that the fans will love," which they've been doing since 1992, and doing well because they're die hard fans themselves.
Hey, I've got tons of respect for Timm's crew. The Batman series is still a huge favorite. So far he hasn't worked for Marvel though, so you take what you can get.
post #29 of 38
Quote:
The Punisher 2, Lionsgate - TBD
I'll tell you what's TO BE DETERMINED, the date that Lionsgate can kiss my ass.
post #30 of 38
Marvel is pretty much just cashing in on the revision and popularity of the Ultimates comics (a little too late, actually), their new movie empire, and the flexibility of animation as a medium. They set out to give fans a moving mish mash of their modern comic book admirations in the midst of superhero praise and did it to assure decent sales.

They probably hoped to grab actual kids too in their illusory methods of acquiring man-children, but the movies have been so incredibly daft and boring that it’s an insult to a 6 year-old’s intelligence if you show it to them. Read the kids a book instead and foster their imagination for a change.

What astonishes me is this mass disillusionment to the DC animated series because it skews to younger audiences when comic books were made initially for younger audiences . You want a new and awesome Santa Claus too who has a disturbing psychosexual relationship with Rudolph the Red Nosed Transvestite? It’s not like this Ultimate Avengers stuff is any different in its audience, it just has a deceptive wrapper to draw in the man geeks of this day and age.
post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlton Stevens

What astonishes me is this mass disillusionment to the DC animated series because it skews to younger audiences when comic books were made initially for younger audiences . You want a new and awesome Santa Claus too who has a disturbing psychosexual relationship with Rudolph the Red Nosed Transvestite? It’s not like this Ultimate Avengers stuff is any different in its audience, it just has a deceptive wrapper to draw in the man geeks of this day and age.
Skewing toward younger audiences isn't the problem. The problem was that Teen Titans did it in a way that detracted from the material. Actually I didn't have all that big a problem with Teen Titans. They seemed to get it right as it went on. Though I did miss the last couple of seasons.

Krypto the Superdog is a waste of valuable life space. What the hell is Bouncing Boy? Was that an actual character?
post #32 of 38
I like that grown men are arguing about cartoons. It gives me opportunities for laughing.
post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcujoI
Krypto the Superdog is a waste of valuable life space. What the hell is Bouncing Boy? Was that an actual character?
Yeah, but he's clearly not talking about that kind of thing, he's talking about stuff like JUSTICE LEAGUE. Shows that are very well-written and directed, and don't talk down to kids or try and appeal to the Spawn brand of comic fans, but are ignored because of the lack of chains and rapes.
post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Yeah, but he's clearly not talking about that kind of thing, he's talking about stuff like JUSTICE LEAGUE. Shows that are very well-written and directed, and don't talk down to kids or try and appeal to the Spawn brand of comic fans, but are ignored because of the lack of chains and rapes.
Ah yes I see the context now. Justice League really is top notch when you compare it to Ultimate Avengers. I would place the blame on the shoulders of WB and Cartoon Network in their terribly erratic scheduling practices. It seems they might have learned something though in releasing DTV Justice League movies.
post #35 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brigden
Yeah, but he's clearly not talking about that kind of thing, he's talking about stuff like JUSTICE LEAGUE. Shows that are very well-written and directed, and don't talk down to kids or try and appeal to the Spawn brand of comic fans, but are ignored because of the lack of chains and rapes.
I'm clearly not talking about Justice League if you were following along. But if you're expecting the adventures of Bouncing Boy to be "well-written and directed," well, to each their own.
post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
I like that grown men are arguing about cartoons. It gives me opportunities for laughing.
Isn't it a little hypocritical for an acknowledged Harry Potter fan to make fun of adults discussing cartoons? I mean, granted, Harry Potter is better than anything being discussed here, but it's still something targeted at an age group you'd be arrested for consorting with. But call the kettle black if you must.
post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
I'm clearly not talking about Justice League if you were following along. But if you're expecting the adventures of Bouncing Boy to be "well-written and directed," well, to each their own.
You're obviously not following, because I wasn't talking about you.
post #38 of 38
Thread Starter 
Ah. Sorry, a bit of the ol' egocentricism kicking in there. Or perhaps the vino. Tony would understand.
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