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Bryant Gumbel Inserts Foot in Mouth...Again

post #1 of 16
8/21/06 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5892232?FSO1&ATT=HMA

Pretty insulting stuff. I don't know much about Upshaw, but my impression is that his own union members cut his feet out from under him when they crossed the picket lines en-masse in the early 80's. I would have imagined that it would take decades to even begin to recover from that debacle, so I'm not surprised that only now is the union beginning to win back concessions. Not having guaranteed contracts sucks for NFL players. Gumbel should have kept in mind, however, that serious injuries in baseball or basketball are fairly rare, while they are the norm in football. In the NFL, signing bonuses have taken the place of guaranteed contracts.

Gumbel's really been making friends left and right.
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post #2 of 16
8/22/06 at 7:21am
Yep clearly a guy who doesn't get it.

Its funny i'd think Bryant would be rather smart but he's like one of those guys in school that says smart things here and there and then lets loose something so completely dumb everyone stands back and just stares at him.
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post #3 of 16
8/22/06 at 12:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
Yep clearly a guy who doesn't get it.

Its funny i'd think Bryant would be rather smart but he's like one of those guys in school that says smart things here and there and then lets loose something so completely dumb everyone stands back and just stares at him.
I can't help but think that this is all a calculated move on his part.

I also can't help but think that as old as he is, Gene Upshaw would quite willingly meet Gumbel after school any time he wants.
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post #4 of 16
8/22/06 at 2:02pm
Never did get the appeal of Bryant Gumbel. The guy is hugely overrated - although by few people these days, I expect.
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post #5 of 16
8/22/06 at 2:06pm
Gumbel is a jackass, but is completely right here. I'm not sure what position you guys are coming from. The NFL is easily the weakest union of the major sports (yes, even worse than the NHL) and Upshaw is way too friendly to management.
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post #6 of 16
8/22/06 at 2:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Gumbel is a jackass, but is completely right here. I'm not sure what position you guys are coming from. The NFL is easily the weakest union of the major sports (yes, even worse than the NHL) and Upshaw is way too friendly to management.
Well, the NFL union is weaker, comparatively, but do you blame Upshaw or the players? I mean, Upshaw organized a strike, and a large percentage of the players crossed the picket line. I guess you could blame that on Upshaw's leadership...but Gumbel is an inflammatory ass.
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post #7 of 16
8/22/06 at 2:18pm
Upshaw buddies up with ownership. You think Donald Fier has a good relationship with Selig or any owners? Of course not, because his sole reason for being around is to get the best deal possible for his constituents. I think the NFL needs a union leader who hasn't played before. Upshaw doesn't have the skill to really do the job right. He went from being a player right to the head of the union. The more business-minded owners have their way with him and manipulate him.

They NFLPA needs to get someone who's not a 'great guy', but rather a tough negotiator. As a lawyer, Overlord, I would think you'd understand this better than most. Guess who's going to have the upper hand when you put someone whose only business experience is playing in the NFL in a room full of lawyers and shrewd businessmen? He's been molded by the owners from day one.
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post #8 of 16
8/22/06 at 2:48pm
Upshaw being a good guy who doesn't automatically wage jihad against ownership is also one of the reasons why the NFL doesn't suck as much as the other major sports.

In other words, sure... Donald Fier gets the best possible deals for his constituents, but he's also a total fucking twat and one of the main people responsible for ruining Major League Baseball. (To be fair, MLB owners are dumb as a sack of nuts and many of them are greedy SOBs, too. And don't even get me started on Selig).

Perhaps Upshaw has bent too far the other way. Perhaps not. At bestm it's arguable. But either way professional sports union leaders shouldn't have to be inhuman assholes to get the job done.
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post #9 of 16
8/22/06 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Upshaw buddies up with ownership. You think Donald Fier has a good relationship with Selig or any owners? Of course not, because his sole reason for being around is to get the best deal possible for his constituents. I think the NFL needs a union leader who hasn't played before. Upshaw doesn't have the skill to really do the job right. He went from being a player right to the head of the union. The more business-minded owners have their way with him and manipulate him.

They NFLPA needs to get someone who's not a 'great guy', but rather a tough negotiator. As a lawyer, Overlord, I would think you'd understand this better than most. Guess who's going to have the upper hand when you put someone whose only business experience is playing in the NFL in a room full of lawyers and shrewd businessmen? He's been molded by the owners from day one.
Being contentious and fighting management every step of the way probably works better when your players don't repeatedly demonstrate their willingness to break union ranks! When has Upshaw been manipulated? To be honest, I have only a rudimentary knowledge base of the NFL/Union negotiations over the years, so if you have some examples as to why Gumbel is right I'd love to hear them. I know Upshaw caved in the 80's, has that been a pattern?

As for the other major sports unions, the NBA union seems to be steadily weakening. The next time the collective bargaining agreement expires I wouldn't be surprised to see the players grant even more concessions. The MLB is such a different animal (given the extraordinary and unprecedented power of its union combined with the divided ownership base) that if you compare it with ANY other union that union is going to suffer by comparison.

Whoever greenlit NBC's multi-billion dollar acquisition of the NFL rights must be very, very upset at Gumbel.
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post #10 of 16
8/22/06 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Cunningham
Perhaps Upshaw has bent too far the other way. Perhaps not. At bestm it's arguable. But either way professional sports union leaders shouldn't have to be inhuman assholes to get the job done.
You have to be an inhuman asshole to deal with inhuman assholes in such an arena. You can't send in a friend of the owners to negotiate a deal in which the people you represent are the people the owners want to give as little money to as possible. You can't be nice. Again, these are high-powered businessmen with the best legal teams money can buy. You need someone with a better background than merely being a player rep to handle those guys.

Upshaw has been manipulated because since he didn't have the background to begin with, he's basically learned from the owners. I'm not saying he's completely mindless, but the results speak for themselves. There's always union members who want to break the picket line, but it's up to union leadership to convince them that they are working in their best interests. Once you lose that power, you should leave your position. The fact he's still around after the players broke the strike just goes to show how much power the NFL has over the NFLPA.
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post #11 of 16
8/22/06 at 7:06pm
The less the NFL has in common with strike-happy MLB the better.
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post #12 of 16
8/22/06 at 11:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
I'm not saying he's completely mindless, but the results speak for themselves.
You're right about that.

The pay for the average NFL player has risen well over 100% since 1994. Much faster than the pay for a baseball or basketball player.
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post #13 of 16
8/23/06 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine
You're right about that.

The pay for the average NFL player has risen well over 100% since 1994. Much faster than the pay for a baseball or basketball player.
Yeah, as long as they stay on the roster. The business of the NFL has risen exponentially more than salaries in the last twenty years. The same cannot be said for the NBA and MLB, yet their player unions continue to rake in money for their constituents (though the NBA union certainly is weakening).

Thing is, the stronger the sport is, the stronger the union should be. The NBA and NHL unions have gone soft in the past few years because the sports are going down the crapper. Meanwhile, the NFL is currently stronger than ANY sport has every been in this country. It is far and away the best league right now, and they can't even get guaranteed contracts for their players. Don't even fucking think about how they treat the long-retired players, those who made the game what it is today. Upshaw couldn't give a shit.
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post #14 of 16
8/23/06 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Yeah, as long as they stay on the roster. The business of the NFL has risen exponentially more than salaries in the last twenty years. The same cannot be said for the NBA and MLB, yet their player unions continue to rake in money for their constituents (though the NBA union certainly is weakening).

Thing is, the stronger the sport is, the stronger the union should be. The NBA and NHL unions have gone soft in the past few years because the sports are going down the crapper. Meanwhile, the NFL is currently stronger than ANY sport has every been in this country. It is far and away the best league right now, and they can't even get guaranteed contracts for their players.
MLB and NBA unions do rake in money for the players, but to the longterm detriment of the league itself (especially the NBA).

The only reason NFL teams pay lower tier players like D.J. Shockley $1.6 million is because there aren't guaranteed contracts. If there were he would be making far less and probably not in the league.

Edit for clarity: My point is that NFL players make as much they do because there are no completely guaranteed contracts.

Quote:
Don't even fucking think about how they treat the long-retired players, those who made the game what it is today. Upshaw couldn't give a shit.
I agree with you 100%. Upshaw deserves more criticism for this than anything else.
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post #15 of 16
8/24/06 at 5:34pm
Don't get me wrong, I know we're talking about guys who make a shitload of money already, and with so many players on even team, guaranteed contracts would be a tough sell for owners. However, it's supposed to be the job of the head of the union to get the tough sells set up. That's what they're there for.

I don't think the problems with the NBA have much to do with what the union had done. The game itself has caused fans to leave. The NBA brass assumed that everyone wanted to see high-flying dunks, and while they're partially correct, fans prefer to see such acrobatics within a well-played game. Most fans aren't looking for And-1 tapes.

Basically, I think that Upshaw being such good friends with NFL leaders has inadvertantly affected his outlook. He's just not tough enough.
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post #16 of 16
8/24/06 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Don't get me wrong, I know we're talking about guys who make a shitload of money already, and with so many players on even team, guaranteed contracts would be a tough sell for owners. However, it's supposed to be the job of the head of the union to get the tough sells set up. That's what they're there for.
I think the owners would be willing to have guaranteed contracts if it meant they could eliminate most of the non-guaranteed money in those contracts. But a lot of players wouldn't be willing to give up that much.

I wouldn't want to be the guy who'd have to tell Reggie Bush that he lost $25 million.

I think both sides are making too much money for them to jeopardize everything with a strike or lockout and Upshaw is a big part of that.

Edit: Should this thread be merged with the Jason "Shitcock" thread?
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