Wrestling Discussion Thread (WWE, TNA, ECW, WCW, etc.) - Page 3

From what point of view? Sure, it sucks, but I think the 'E made the right call on this one. Early release is the ultimate punishment for those that can't get their personal problems in check, and Angle's been given multiple chances to do just that. I'd rather see him released now than dead after another six months of matches.

In YOUR opinion.

So how exactly are you measuring what was the "biggest thing?" Is it only the stuff you liked or what?
According to whom? Just you? Or did someone tell you that it was a FACT that those were the biggest things?

Because you can't.

No not really it isn't. Like I said it's about how you are quantifying. If you are only using t.v. ratings then your method is flawed because only certain families are Neilsen families. Is it only the number of people drawn? Because if that's so then all WCW had to do was give tickets away and say that the building was "sold out." I'm not trying to say that ECW was the best thing of the 90's but I'm trying to show you that you can't rule out the chance that ECW may have been ONE of the biggest things in wrestling in the 90's.
What does popularity have to do with the argument anyway? Hulk Hogan is an immensly popular wrestler but compared to say Chris Benoit, Hogan just does not measure up. Hogan may have "drawn" more in the business but more people have more respect for Benoit's skill than they do Hogan. And trust me that's not an attack on Hogan or you for liking him, I'm just pointing out that your argument is severly biased because you obviously cared a lot for WCW and the "Attitude Era," and that's fine but let's not belittle ECW and say it didn't matter in the 90's.

The fact that ECW exists today and WCW does not says a lot. You will NEVER hear a WCW chant at a show today and there is a reason why you DO hear ECW chants at shows. It's because ECW simply may possibly be one of the most exciting promotions in the history of wrestling. Did it make anyone a millionaire? Maybe not, but it did captivate the hearts and minds of a lot more people than just a "cult following." Check out the ECW DVD sales for proof on that.

I'm not trying to argue or be rude but I don't understand how you can say that ECW was just "good but it's overrated." ECW was one of the biggest things in wrestling during the 90's you can't deny it. Was it moreso than WCW or the attitude era, or even Jesus help me Goldberg? Maybe, mabye not, it's all up to ones own tastes.

Actually, you're right. It is just my opinion. I don't feel like arguing about it.

Good attempt at covering your tracks......but it's too late.......let's see what Conan really said in the above post.

WOW......you know normally I wouldn't get nasty......But you really are fucking clueless.



Yeah ratings mean everything......Hogan and Goldberg were the biggest things in the 90's because they drew a 7.2......well "This is your life" featuring The Rock and Foley drew over a 8.0.....So by your logic that was the biggest thing in wrestling.

ECW didn't draw the same numbers as WcW or the WWF because until they got on TNN they were basically a syndicated program.....They didn't have the backing of Ted Turner.....they didn't have a top level cable channel to showcase their program

"TNA right now is almost just as big as ECW was."

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS.......Oh god I wish Baba was here.....His response to that quote would be EPIC.

Your obsession with ratings is hysterical.

In a earlier post you claimed that the attitude era was the biggest thing in the 90's......and you know what......your right......now answer me this.

WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VINCE GOT THE ATTITUDE IDEA FROM?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Oh yeah.......It got people talking about wcw......I remember my Friends who didn't watch pro wrestling asking me just how bad the wrestlers were in WcW when DAVID FUCKING ARQUETTE was the world champion......they didn't know that he pin a "NON WRESTLER" to win the title......all they knew was the fucking twit from Scream movies was the heavyweight champion of the world.

So let's review the brillance of Conan.

David Arquette winning the world title was funny.
Wolfpac was as popular as DX.
Goldberg was more popular than ECW.
ECW was Overrated.
TNA is as big now as ECW was in it's prime.

People complain about Baba......but at least he had a fucking clue.

ECW would never have made it as big as WWF or WCW, regardless of TV deals. That's a fact.

And structurally and in terms of exposure, TNA is as big as ECW was.

But yeah, most of what he says is drivel. I wouldn't agree that ECW was the best thing about the '90s-they put out just as much crap as they did gold, and for me WWF circa 1998 took the extreme ethos and turne dit into something far more gripping and all-encompassing-but it was most certainly the most influential.

wwf had the money and the means to take the ideas that ECW were using and turned it global......just imagine if ECW would of had the same funding and cable presence that wwf and wcw had in the late 90's.

Cable exposure wise TNA is still not on the same level as ECW......Exactly how many "TNA" chants have you heard at Raw or smackdown.

They are slowly getting close but ECW had a better slot on friday nights than TNA...And I also doubt that PPV wise TNA is on the same level that ECW was on......And it's influence on wrestling will never be as big as what ECW was.

ECW's structure and R-rated material, as well as Paul E's inability to run the company without bleeding money, would've ensured that, no matter what the breaks it got, the company would've gone under. Shit, you said it yourself-at a time when wrestling was far more popular than it is now, with a better timeslot, a better product and a more interesting ethos, ECW still couldn't stay afloat like TNA has. It was a cult hit, and only when it attempted to outgrow that did it begin to fall apart. That's not a judgement of its quality or worth, just a reasonable assessment of its chances of mainstream success.

Yes Paul E's inability to run the company is what killed ECW......but if they would have been bought up like Ted did with WCW they might have stood a chance(I really believe that if Turner hadn't bought crockett promotions the company that ended up being WCW would never had made it past the early 90's)

With a smart guy working the money aspect of the company and Paul E booking the promotion I think they could have stayed around.

Let's change topics for a bit. Sometimes we talk about quality of matches, without giving everyday matches a second thought. Yes, this could be considered a sideshow, but hey, suspend my reality as best you can. I become miffed when I see Trips falling backwards before someone gies him the forearm. When jobbers sell the move better than the stars I become miffed. We do not always need 4 star matches, but at least give us a good show.

Blowing a spot happens......it's when the blown spot is so obvious that Ray Charles can see it(And he's dead) is when it's frustrating......Even more when it seems like the same guys are doing it over and over.

I Know

Blowing a spot happens, but slopping through a match is another thing, I want these guys to make me aspire to being Harley Race.

I don't think Trips is a fair target there, to be honest. Since the Benoit feud the guy's found his feet again, but in the ring and out. 2002-2003 was a dark, dark period for him though.

Very true.....02-03 was probably the lowest point for him but he has improved dramatically.

As for guys aspiring to be Harley Race.......I think it will be a long long time before we see another guy on the level of Race or Flair.....don't get me wrong there are some great wrestlers out there......but alot of them worry about the "holy shit" highspot too much that they tend to forget the subtle things.

So True

I just want to believe. Gentleman, thank you for giving me something to aspire to,

The thing is.....so much has changed that seeing another true great like Race, Flair, Steamboat is gonna be hard.

Look at the guys who in the last ten years were close to it......look at Angle.....his place in wrestling history is locked in but he could have been so much more.....however the gruling pace of wwe travel and today's over the top style of wrestling has now led to him being gone.....or even worse.......all the guys who are now dead because of how rough it is in today's wrestling......guys like Eddie, Henning, Pillman......even Owen who was killed in a senseless stunt just to impress the fans.....the guys in the 70's never had to resort to that kind of stuff to get over.......And look at guys like Benoit and Malenko who had as much talent as flair and Race but didn't have the right image to fully get over in today's age of wrestling......had those two been around in the 70's they would be right up there with the great ones.

Grass

DJ Hippie at al,


I would love to get high with you all and discuss the nuances of professional wrestling. May I just say, WTF - Fliair seserves a 17th run at the title. For now, all we can do is discuss would could be.

A toast to you all.

I did write a big post but you know what? I'm changing it again. I don't feel up to arguing about wrestling. All I said was that WWF and WCW were more popular than ECW. Which is a fact. But if you want to argue with me, go ahead.

Baba was an asshole who, unlike 99.2% of this thread, knew his shit and history. Sure he ranted and was opinionated, but who isn't on this board?

Also, he was interesting and informative...unlike the people in this thread.

Baba just wrote long posts and argued with people. If you want you can go to wrestlingclassics.com and find people who know just as much if not more about wrestling than Baba does.

Thank you, I think I will. ;-)
I'm not saying you're wrong about which company had more people viewing it but I will say you're wrong if you think ECW wasn't a big thing in wrestling in the 90's. They influenced the "attitude era," and to an extent WCW as well, I mean both companies did have a "hardcore title." (even if wcw treated it's as a joke.)

It's cool though Conan I get that you weren't all that into ECW. That's the thing, your taste is different than mine. At least in the 90's we had more choices.

Actually, I did like ECW. The first wrestling event I ever went to was an ECW PPV. I agree that it did influence WCW and the WWF. I liked ECW but no it wasn't my favorite.

Thank you Captain Irrelevant.

You should leave it at LEAST a week before re-registering, GB.

I checked his profile cause I thought the same thing......but his join date says Aug 5th so I doubt it's him.....This guy is just a tool.

It's a huge suprise to see the WWE release Kurt Angle.

I truly hope Kurt gets his shit together and can come back to the WWE in some way, shape or form. But he needs to get his life put back together and take care of himself.

A friend of mine brought up a interesting point.

There are rumors that Angle's marriage is in serious trouble and his wife is considering divorce......And that his wife may be intitled to half of his money......including what the wwe were gonna pay him under his current contract and that maybe both angle and the wwe decided to release him from his current contract and wait until after the divorce was final and then resign him to a new contract.

I don't know how valid that theory is......I just hope that Angle will get his life together......Even if that means staying far away from wrestling.

Moving on......I watched the Mcmahon DVD this evening.....Quite long but it didn't really go too in depth......Little mentioned about his childhood......not much about his rocky relationship with his father and little about the steroid trial.....Mostly it was about his On-air character.

Some good matches.....I watched the Austin/Vince cage match where the big show made his WWE debut as well as the buried alive match with UT where vince bleeds like a stuck pig.

The extras are ok......deleted scenes.....my favorite was them talking about the SD show done on 9/13/01 as well as a bunch of people talking about Vince's walk.....with many of them doing their best impersonation of the vince walk.

I'm really not that excited about the Vince DVD as I usually am with most of the compilation DVDs. I guess it's because he's not a wrestler full time and I won't get the tons of matches like the other DVDs. Also I was at the 9/13/01 SD which was supposed to happen on 9/11/01. It's hard to explain the feelings from that night so many years removed from it but it was strange. I may try to rent this to check it out.

It depends on how long they were married and what state they are getting a divorce. If that state is PA, then he's screwed. Plus she could go after the contract no matter what if the release was a sham.

Kurt needs a rest.

As far as Kurt is concerned, I think the WWE is legit in their concern for his health. The last thing they need is for a another huge star like Kurt Angle to die while he is active with the company. Kurt needs time to heal. Perhaps get legit neck surgery from Dr. Youngblood and not that stopgap procedure that he did a couple of years ago. I wish him the best.

As far as the ECW debate, the only reason ECW was able to rise to the heights that they did is due to the popularity of the WWE & WCW in the 90's. The exposure they gave to the wrestling industry as a whole trickled down to ECW and the indy scene. If the boom of the 90's never existed, there would not have been the fans clamoring for something different, they simply would have walked away from wrestling like the dishearted fans do today. Part of the appeal of ECW in the 90's was the fact that it was nothing like the mainstream promotions and had no interest in being like them. Without a large fed to be juxtaposed agianst, they would have been just another indy fed. That is TNA's biggest problem right now, trying to play catch up to WWE and mimic WCW when they should focus on being TNA and seperating themselves from WWE product.

I agree. If wrestling was as popular now as it was in the 90s, then Ring of Honor would have a syndicated television deal by now.

It is differant styles of wrestling but Ring of Honor today is what ECW was in the 90's - A cult favorite.

I couldn't give a crap about the McMahan DVD. However, I am excited as hell about the Piper, Pillman and Hogan DVDs.

Tonight on Sci-Fi

So it'll be Cena-Edge postering, McMahon losing his ming and then there is this:

One of these matches my fiance won't let me watch and you know what, it'll probably be the better of the two.

The paddle on a pole match will be the typical shit on a stick.....The Orton/Hardy match could be good......I just hope we get less Mcmahon segments.

The IC title seems more important than the WWE title right now. Johnny Nitro is the champ and Orton, Hardy, Benjamin and Carlito are all feuding over it. I'm glad that the IC title seems important again.

That's like the fifth Number 1 contenders match in the past two months. It's cool that they're trying to make the IC title seem important though.

Yeah it's a good thing....They were having some great matches between nitro and shelton and carlito and then seemed to stop.....last weeks title match between nitro and kane was pointless as it was nothing more than a setup for kane's feud with umaga.

I for one would like to see a Hardy/Nitro title match.....And I expect Carlito to cost Orton the match tonight and set up a feud between those two.

What i'm most interested in is the fallout from last weeks Foley firing.....I wouldn't be surprised to see Flair come out and say something about it.

Masters returns........King says's he's leaner and meaner.

And he came out to his usual intro.......The crowd is into the match but they didn't seem all that impressed with the return of the masterpiece.

He doesn't look bad.......but truthfully he needs to drop the masterpiece gimmick and intro.

Edge comes out and hits cena with a chair and a ladder and then puts him thru a table......and then announces it'll be Cena vs Edge at unforgiven in a TLC match.......and if Cena loses he goes to Smackdown.

Please.....for the love of god get rid of that shitty ass belt.

OH MY GOD.......They just announced tomorrow night's main event for ECW........Extreme rules.......Sabu vs.......PAUL HEYMAN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

2 steps foward..........20 steps back.

Leaner indeed. My grandmother could break out of the Masterlock.

Mine too......And she's been dead for a year.

I loved how he went to pose during his opening and you could see his arms wiggle......I got no problem with his off the roids......but if they are gonna continue the masterpiece gimmick then he needs to tone up better.

Well I was hoping for less Mcmahons tonight.......looks like i'm not getting that wish.

Wow......that Paddle on a pole match made the Pinata match on a pole look like Race and Flair in a coal miners glove match......I mean I knew I wasn't expect much but holy fuck that was horrible.....even the whole spanking at the end was pretty pathetic.

Anybody else getting tired of the tired ass booking of having heel Orton jump Carlito which will lead to Carlito costing him his match later? I mean what kind of dupe jumps a guy BEFORE his #1 contenders match for any title? It's just lazy if you ask me, but I could be being petty.

No it's lazy booking.....it would have been better to have Hardy face Carlito for the number 1 spot and then have Orton get revenge for last week's attack by costing Carlito his shot a the IC title.

Oh and 2001 just called Hardy and asked for their wardrobe style back......and yes that joke is as old as Hardy wardrobe and Haircolor.

WOW.......Carlito attacked Orton and cost him the match........Didn't see that coming.

Nope, not at all. :-(

oh, booking-by-numbers isn't as fun as it used to be.

It used to be fun?

The spirit squad against Duggan and Eugene for the tag belts......with the highlanders at ringside......it's amazing how far the squad has fallen.....I can see Hacksaw and Eugene winning the titles and then the Bushwack......opps I mean highlanders turning on them.

well if that's gonna happen it'll have to wait another week as the squad wins again......the tag team division has really fallen apart.

And Umaga comes out and punks out Duggan and Eugene........well I guess beating up the old and special people is better than beating up nonames that are 148 pounds under the cruiserweight level.

Nitro and Melina press conference is up next.......I expect Flair to get involved.

He better do it quick because these two suck on the mic.

You know what's sad.......is these two are just taking up time that could have been spent on another long winded and pointless Mcmahon segment.......which would have been 10 times more interesting than that bullshit.

Man when people are rooting for McMahons you know your segment fell flat.

That whole thing could have been done in a backstage interview......and could have been done in half the time.....instead we get the whole intro.....Drawn out bullshit from Johnny "I should never be in front of a Mic" Nitro and then Melina's drivel.

I mean Mick is gone and if Flair isn't gonna come out and confront them then why in the fuck did we need these two to blabble on and on.

Lita vs Mickie......I'll try and contain my surprise when Trish comes out and attacks trish.

wow Trish didn't come out.....not that she would have made that match any more interesting than it was.......the crowd was pretty hot at the beginning of the show and now they just seem like they are ready for it to end.

Main event time and DX's opponents are.........Finaly, Regal and Mr. Kennedy.........the silence from the crowds at their introduction really speaks volumes.

10:57 and THEY GO TO COMMERCIAL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

DX beats the Smackdown guys and then Shane sends in the ECW champ the big show......Show and the smackdown guys beat up on DX........I swear to god if DX shows up on ECW tomorrow night i'm gonna personally hire New jack to go mass transist on Vince Mchmahon.

Vince comes out with a "lead" pipe and beats HHH senseless with it.........Vince then grabs a camera from ringside and beats HBK with it.......HHH refuses to job to the pipe and then shane beats him with it.

"YOU THINK THIS IS OVER" Screams vince........I sure about about million fans screamed back "WE WISH".

And now vince has announced that it's not over and that DX will face Vince, Shane and the Big show at unforgiven in hell in the cell.

I swear to God if DX shows up on ECW I will personally hire New Jack to go Mass Transist on someone.

Looks like Agassi is gonna hold the replay back on USA.......which is probably why the Live show ran over.......Raw replay probably won't be on USA till around midnight.....Depending on how much longer Agassi can hold on.

Nice "He fucked your Daughter" chant to close out the show.

Even with 50% less Mcmahons as compared to last week it was a pretty bad show.....The Edge/Cena stuff at the beginning was great but it was pretty much all downhill after that with the Nitro/Melina "press conference" hitting rock bottom.

I would say "well there is tomorrow night and ECW" but the main event is Sabu and Heyman and I'm getting that sick feeling that DX is soon to arrive in ECW to get some payback on the big show so i'm not holding my breath on a good week for wwe programing.