Wrestling Discussion Thread (WWE, TNA, ECW, WCW, etc.) - Page 225

DEAN AMBROSE MOTHERFUCKERS. Shit just got interesting.
 

...and they'll be jobbing out to Ryback inside a month. Still... nice to have them on the roster, though.

I sincerely doubt that.
 

Can't have Ryback lose clean yet. Vince won't allow it.
 

He shouldn't be losing clean yet. The one value he has is as a force of nature, it's way too early to humanize him.

Who the hell is Dean and Seth and why do you all care so much?

Unless I'm mistaken, they are ROH alumni who've worked with Daniel Bryan and Punk in the past. I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman 

Who the hell is Dean and Seth and why do you all care so much?

They're good.  That's why I care.

Ambrose in particular is fantastic, and most importantly he's got charisma coming out of his pores. He's the total package.
 

Cross posting for the peeps in this thread.  It is really funny and has quite a few WWE stars in it. It isn't in this clip, but Rey Mysterio doing Joel's job was hilarious.

hey guys, is there a good link or strem unlike justin tv where i would be able to see raw tonight? 

stream i meant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmurdoch 

I loved that Soup special. Cole and the King on the side delivering commentary was hilarious.

Yeah, that was more entertaining than anything the WWE has come up with in months. 

Really liked the Shields interview. Hate the name, but the guys are doing alright. Ambrose seems to be the vocal standout, tho this Roman guy is perfect in the strong/silent role. Seth needs some work tho...

Yeah rollins isn't that impressive on the mic, but he more than makes up for it in the ring. I have to extend my love for Ambrose the guy is pretty great. He's aces on the mic, really intense, and an overall very good wrestler. Nothing too flashy, he just clearly knows what he's doing and sells like a boss. If memory serves me correct, he wasn't in ROH, Ambrose and Reigns were though. If you haven't seen a match, check out Ambrose and Punk at FCW last year.

It's been a while since 3 "rookies" impressed me so much. I guess they're not rookies. Did all of them or just a couple of them come from RoH? I think that says something right there... instead of just sending these guys to wrestling school and rushing them on TV they need to go after more wrestlers who have been wrestling in RoH or the indy scene and have some real experience already. 

Sorry Arturo, I didn't reread my comment after I wrote it, that's what I meant, Ambrose wasn't in ROH but I know Rollins was at least, my bad. Upgrayedd, to me the better wrestlers are the ones that actually take the time to hone their craft. That's not to say that you can't be successful by starting off in wwe development and learning there, but you only learn one style of wrestling which limits you in my opinion. Granted the wrestling scene is nowhere where it used to be years ago, but people who take the time to soak up all the information from other wrestling organizations are the guys/gals that get it already by the time they go to wwe. Vince always comes across as the guy who wants to make his own "superstars" and not rely on the indy scene but the development of Bryan and Punk surely has changed his mind for the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philmooreslim26 

Sorry Arturo, I didn't reread my comment after I wrote it, that's what I meant, Ambrose wasn't in ROH but I know Rollins was at least, my bad. Upgrayedd, to me the better wrestlers are the ones that actually take the time to hone their craft. That's not to say that you can't be successful by starting off in wwe development and learning there, but you only learn one style of wrestling which limits you in my opinion. Granted the wrestling scene is nowhere where it used to be years ago, but people who take the time to soak up all the information from other wrestling organizations are the guys/gals that get it already by the time they go to wwe. Vince always comes across as the guy who wants to make his own "superstars" and not rely on the indy scene but the development of Bryan and Punk surely has changed his mind for the better.

I completely agree. Most of the all time greats took years learning how to wrestle and talk and develop their characters before making it big. Very rarely do you get someone who can come in only after going to OVW or FCW and make it big right away. 

Funny didn't realize those guys were all wwe breed, makes sense why Cena is their top guy now. Personally never liked Batista though he actually made me chuckle during his last heel run, can't stand Cena for reasons that I shouldn't have to say, and always felt that Orton is ok when he decides to actually engage in wrestling and not just let people run into his moves. I've always really liked Lesnar, he shouldn't be allowed to open his mouth but he's impressive as hell. Gotta give a lot of that credit for Lesnar to the fact that he was a wrestler in high school and college though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrchineSLICE 

Lesnar, Batista, Orton, Cena and Cena all came from OVW. Though IMO only one of those four are great.

I forgot that all those guys came from OVW. Yeah, when OVW was run correctly with a lot of help from Jim Cornette, Paul Heyman and Jim Ross they did develop a lot of stars. Then again only two people on that list are really full-time wrestlers. One is part-time and one is completely done. Plus, it took years for Orton to finally develop. Still... Lesnar and Batista and Cena were ready right from the start. Like I said... it's rare though. The Hogan's, Austin's, Flair's, etc. all worked their way up and wrestled in Japan and in the smaller wrestling promotions before they made it big. 

Hogan and Flair were already huge stars before they joined the WWF. Indeed Flair was a bigger draw in his NWA prime than he ever was in the WWF.

But it took Flair a long time to get to where he was. He didn't just go to wrestling school and appear on TV and win the world title right away. Same with Hogan.

Of course you could argue that winning the Monday Night Wars as outright as he did, was the worst thing to happen to his company, as it robbed him of the next batch of potential stars that WCW first found like Taker, Austin, Sid, Foley, etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Machine 

Of course you could argue that winning the Monday Night Wars as outright as he did, was the worst thing to happen to his company, as it robbed him of the next batch of potential stars that WCW first found like Taker, Austin, Sid, Foley, etc

Don't forget Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Triple H, Jericho. Damn... WCW blew it so much with so many people. They did get a chance again with Hall and Nash but they had them first and they left to go to the WWF and became famous as Razor Ramon and Diesel. 

Offhand, I'd say WCW only really created 4 stars:  Sting, Flair, Luger and Goldberg.  The former three are sketchy since they really made their names in NWA before Turner bought the company from Crockett and re-dubbed it WCW.

I could be mistaken, though.  And boy... did they mismanage Flair in the MNW era... and totally blew it with Goldberg towards the end.  Hey, it was WCW... their specialty was in blowing opportunities.

I have to give Dixie Carter some credit here. TNA is dropping some PPVs next year so they can spend more time hyping up the big ones and they hope that will lead to bigger buyrates. So far they moved LockDown from April to March and got rid of Against All Odds in February so there's Genesis in January and then two months to build to LockDown. I'm assuming they're doing the same thing from LockDown to Slammiversary and cutting a PPV out from between then (they should just cut out both). I think they're keeping Destination X and they're definitely keeping Hardcore Justice. But they're cutting out the September PPV so they'll have two months to build to Bound For Glory. 

I wish WWE would do the same thing here. I know they still make money off their PPVs. But really... I'm so tired of them rushing into PPVs every 3 weeks. They should at least get rid of their February PPV and just have Royal Rumble be the last PPV before WrestleMania. 

TNA should cut down to 6 and WWE should cut down to about 8. 

WWE: 

January: Royal Rumble

April: WrestleMania

May: Backlash

June: King of the Ring

July: Extreme Rules

August: SummerSlam

October: No Mercy

November: Survivor Series

TNA:

January: Genesis

March: LockDown

June: Slammiversary

July: Destination X

August: Hardcore Justice

October: Bound For Glory

Both companies should cut out their December PPV. Not since WCW had Starrcade have I really cared about any PPVs in December with the holidays. 

I like the way you think, I say cut out Backlash to give it two good months for King of the Ring. One of the best thing's about TNA has been Bound for Glory, they showed some pretty good matches during that time. I wish WWE would get back into the idea's of tournaments, and King of the Ring was always one of my favorite times of the year. It's easy, give all the guy's time, you have 3 hours worth, and everyone who competes can still come out looking a million bucks.

That TNA thing is actually wise. The important thing to remember with both WWF/WCW and WCW was they gradually built up to 12 pay shows in a calender year and a lot of that was based on the interest from the consumers as well as an attempt to compete with the other company. TNA has never had much of a brand and they should have built up a handful of PPV shows that their audience could familiar with before they flooded their calender with them and the generic titles didn't help much either. They could definitely use some build-up time for their shows as well so this is a very wise move for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjin 

Offhand, I'd say WCW only really created 4 stars:  Sting, Flair, Luger and Goldberg.  The former three are sketchy since they really made their names in NWA before Turner bought the company from Crockett and re-dubbed it WCW.

 

I could be mistaken, though.  And boy... did they mismanage Flair in the MNW era... and totally blew it with Goldberg towards the end.  Hey, it was WCW... their specialty was in blowing opportunities.

To be fair they also helped change the "too small to headline" mentality in US pro wrestling and made stars out of Benoit, Rey, Eddy etc who might well have never gone to the WWE if they hadn't.

I would give WCW credit for Diamond Dallas Page as well. With Flair, outside of maybe the six or seven months before Hogan got there, WCW never really used him correctly.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Machine 

 

To be fair they also helped change the "too small to headline" mentality in US pro wrestling and made stars out of Benoit, Rey, Eddy etc who might well have never gone to the WWE if they hadn't.

I wouldn't give them much credit in that area. I don't recall Guerrero headlining many WCW shows and Benoit-Rey, I feel were equally misused. They were given TV time on a national stage so that's something but I feel like they were brought in because they were exceptional young talent and given very little opportunity for movement up the card. They tended to only catch breaks when Hogan, Macho, Hall, and Nash were either in contract time-outs or just decided to take the night off. There's a difference between being in the main event against the top guys and being in the main event because management sent the top guys home. I'd call that difference between how they were used in WCW and how they ended up being used in the WWF/WWE.

They deserve some credit for putting better, smaller workers on national TV at a time when Vince, Kevin and Co rarely did. Without it, Vince would never have allowed those guys to rise anywhere close to Main Event level.

They certainly should have done much more with them (particulary Jericho, La Parka, Rey) and their treatment of the likes of Psicosis (who in 1996 was amoung the best five workers in North America) was down right horrible.

I would argue that ECW is really the impetus for showcasing smaller workers, and WCW snapped many of them up to fill up their roster when Nitro became a reality. Sure, WCW brought them to a wider audience, but they did not do much to make the smaller set into MAJOR players. Not in the way WWF did with HBK,  or Heyman did for Taz... for example.

Punk's out of TLC after having knee surgery this week.  Shame, but I hope he's okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjin 

I would argue that ECW is really the impetus for showcasing smaller workers, and WCW snapped many of them up to fill up their roster when Nitro became a reality. Sure, WCW brought them to a wider audience, but they did not do much to make the smaller set into MAJOR players. Not in the way WWF did with HBK,  or Heyman did for Taz... for example.

Yes, that was basically what I was trying to get at. I think Vince was far more open to smaller guys working the top of his card than the folks of WCW were during that time. Bret and Shawn had to do the tag thing for awhile and then transition to Intercontinental but by the mid-90's, they were allowed to work shows against people like Undertaker, Sid, Diesel, Yokozuna, and the like. Even Owen Hart was pulling top heel duties by 1994. In WCW, the only newer talent working the main event or top card spots with Hogan and Savage were Goldberg, Page, and The Giant. Jericho had enough heel heat to work a decent program with Goldberg and it got kaboshed. If they got over at all, it was because of their own workrate, not because the company pushed them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jim 

 

Yes, that was basically what I was trying to get at. I think Vince was far more open to smaller guys working the top of his card than the folks of WCW were during that time.

No he wasn't. He was as stuck in his Big man addiction as he ever was, and it was WCW pushing the likes of Benoit and Rey to higher mid card positions that opened his mind to the idea they could main event with smaller guys. Without WCW Rey wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the Fed, and the likes of Eddy, Jericho, Dragon and Benoit had been around for years working ****** matches all over the world. Vince passed on signing them before the Monday Night Wars changed his opinion.

No WCW and the only smaller guys pushed would have been brothers of the Stars (Owen) or once in a lifetime GOATs like HBK. Indeed Eddy and Jericho pretty much say exactly this in their books.

I agree. Even though ECW is the company that gave Mysterio and those guys a chance it was WCW where they got mainstream recognition and discovered by McMahon. 

Bret and Owen were main eventing across the country in 1994, a full year ahead of Nitro even going on the air. Calling Michaels "a once in a lifetime GOAT" (whatever that means) doesn't make him some kind of exception to the argument either. Bret and Shawn could have just easily spent their careers in WWF having five-star matches in the middle of the show, instead of headlining it. Vince went for it with them.

Here's my prediction.  Probably wrong though.

Cena beats Ziggler for the case.  Cena has brought up that TBS is a formidable opponent, so the briefcase will have to be used for the WH championship like intended.

Cena cashes in, and beats the Big Show for the title.

Rock beats Punk for the title.

Rock vs Cena II at Wrestlemania.  Winner becomes the unified WWE Champion.

No way will they unify the titles. The reason they keep two "main" titles is so one can be defended on each house show tour - RAW and Smackdown. 

Wrestlemania, Punk vs Rock.  I'm almost out of my recent phase of WWE interest, and if that match doesn't happen that will be it for me for another three years. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjin 

No way will they unify the titles. The reason they keep two "main" titles is so one can be defended on each house show tour - RAW and Smackdown. 

Not too mention, Cena-Rock at WM draws without being an unifying match, which should be saved for a PPV down the line, if they ever want to do it. I also suspect they'd do Rock-Brock before they ever do Punk-Rock at mania.

But I think we've locked into the twice in a lifetime match at Mania.

I'm fine with the two titles at this point, as much as they travel it works out well because at least some people are getting some sort of day off for the week. No need to unify, and Cena better not win against Ziggler, that would be a ridiculous decision. Speaking of TLC, as happy as I am to be going and seeing Ambrose and Rollins wrestle for the first time live, I'm scared that they're going to lose the match. I think that would be a bad decision, they need the momentum, and having them lose in their first match out of the gate ends it. Ryback can afford to lose, especially if he isn't the one getting pinned. I'm sure Bryan is getting pinned if his team loses ... again.

They truly should just unify the rosters and the titles. How much money does a SmackDown house show even make nowadays? Is it even worth it to do separate house shows at this point? Combine the rosters and have all the major stars do house shows together. That way there's one champion and he'll be at all the house shows. 

They need to make some major changes. The product is terrible aside from Punk/Heyman/The Shield.

The champ needs an occasional day off. THey can't have one guy who's at EVERY house show, and they are not willing to bother with a house show unless the main strap is represented. As much as I'd like to see the roster combined, at this point they're just not going to do it unless they lose a TV slot for Smackdown and can't get it back on a decent channel at a decent time.

Why does the champion have to be at every show? It's ridiculous. As long as there's big names the title shouldn't have to be defended at every house show. Now they're saying they don't want to put the title on The Rock just because of that. So stupid. 

Because people bitch and complain and ask for their money back if the biggest star isn't at the show. They give refunds to people if Cena doesn't show up for a show.

Some fans of the WWE have forgotten how to sit down and just enjoy the wrestling, and not worrying about what stars are gonna be there. If it's good, let it be good, don't let one person dictate your thinking of the whole experience, it's a shame. Also Upgrayedd, I feel they shouldn't put the belt on The Rock for numerous reasons. It's an insult to the guys working full time back there that this guy gets the belt, as he can be used well by still appearing throughout the entire Road to Wrestlemania sans a belt around his waist. The Rock will draw no matter what, no need for another run with the WWE title. I'm hopeful for Punk to be able to beat Rock who does not need the belt at all since he's a part timer, then Punk has the distinction of being the guy who has beaten John Cena and The Rock. Why does Rocky need the belt? He can still wrestle, and more than likely will wrestle at Wrestlemania. That leads up to possibly The Streak VS The Champion at Wrestlemania, with Taker winning under the impression he retires. Love you Taker, but it's about that time.