Wrestling Discussion Thread (WWE, TNA, ECW, WCW, etc.) - Page 158

I'm very interested in seeing how Cena will respond to being called out on Monday, if at all.  In the span of a few minutes, John Cena's entire character was completely trashed, not by a new guy like Miz, but by the fucking Rock. This great little write up from Lords of Pain says it better than I can.

That article is a fun read, if a tad overstated. I think Cena will response on RAW with a few comments of his own, clearly tension between Rock and Cena will be good for the PPV numbers and ratings int he coming weeks, but remember in 1998 the Fed did that very same thing between Austin and Tyson, even teasing a match between the two, and look what happened. I think a People's elbow on Miz after the rock bottom may be all the phyiscal action Rock does between now and WM.

 

Plus I would suspect RAW on Monday will be all about the return of Taker...

 

BTW the reason Rock has "been away" for so long has as much to do with Vince as it did with Dwayne...

Im getting an Austin at Wrestlemania XX feeling. Rock will be the SGR between Miz and Cena and give one the Rock Bottom and the other a Peoples Elbow

That would be fun, but making Cena look like Rock's inferior would be a misatke on the Fed's part...

They'll do a load of dissenton and duelling promos in the build-up to WM, then Rock will Rock Bottom MIz after Cena beats him for the title. The two will do stereo You Can't See Me/People's Elbows, Rock will shake Cena's hand and hand him the title belt. And honestly, that's exactly the way it should go down barring Rock actually being willing to put Cena over in the ring.

 

 but showing Cena as his equal is just as much of a mistake.. .

 

 I wouldn't be suprised if that happened exactly as you said it... and to be honest, WM always has to end on a uber face moment.  But if the last match is HHH vs UT, maybe, just maybe... they will have the Cena match end with him and the Rock going at it.  The Miz deserves to win at WM, he does, he is a good heal. 

 

If I could write the script, it would go, the referee is knocked out during the match, and The Rock comes down with the stripes on.  Cena and Miz are going at it, and Riley hits Cena, knocking him down.  The Rock doesn't see this, and Miz gets the pin.  John Cena gets up, and is mad.  Everyone leaves the ring, and John Cena grabs the mic.  He tells The Rock that he cheated him out of the title, that he saw Riley hit him with the belt, and that he has this vendetta against him.  The Rock then comes back out, and tells Cena off, calling him a "paper champ" and full of excuses.  Cena gets mad, and pushes the Rock.  They go at it, and The Rock gets the upper hand, and Rock Bottoms Cena, and does the Peoples Elbow to him.  The crowd cheering, The Rocks exits to most of the crowds approval.  Cena slowly gets up, grabs the mic again, and lets the crowd have it.  Tells them he sick of them, chanting "Cena Sucks" and cheering a guy who abondoned them 7 years ago. says "go ahead, boo me, I don't need you".. something to that regard.   

 

How exactly? Rock is the WWE's past, and Cena is their biggest star. If they did the angle you suggest, they be f**ked after WM. You can pay too much homage to the past stars, as Japanese wrestling did far too much of in the 90s, and look where they are today.

 

It will, and should, go down exactly as Andrew suggested above..

 

 

Well, to me, it's insulting to fans who grew up during that time.  You never saw Hulk Hogan raise the hand of Steve Austin, or The Rock. 

How would they be fucked?  The Rock, when wrestling did many, many, heal - face swerves during his career.  The Cena character is as over as it's ever going to be, what exactly, will the Rock "approving" of his character add?  WWE needs a shot in the arm as far as freshness goes, and I think think Cena could be a great heal, and I think that could really open the door for bringing up some younger talent.   

 

IMO, I think the PG rating is not as much of an issue, as people make it out to be.  Two things, that were huge during the attitude era, was the feeling that anything could happen, AND the importance of the 2nd tier belts, which also incorporates 2nd teir storylines.  The IC Belt and US Belt mean nothing right now, no one cares about them, hell, you could probably say that about the main belts too. 

You sir are the WORST. [/jealousy]

 

Oh for God's sake, it's not insulting anyone to get Rock to put Cena over as being on his level. It's good business.

Andrew, it might be good business, but you gotta know that there's a strong contingent of fans who will scoff at it.  On the other hand, those fans aren't the target audience anymore.

 

So your shot in the arm is to have their current biggest star completely manhandled by their former biggest star? Who will then go back to his day job, and Cena will be roughly one tenth of the star he was prior to Mania. Or, you could have Rock and Cena be equals and the WWE benefits by the rub of the Great One. 

 

You cite Hogan, but Hulk was never portrayed by the WWE as bigger and better than The Rock. Right call then, right call now.

 

why would a heal Cena, be 1/10th of the star?  Hollywood Hogan, wasn't 1/10th the star as Hulk Hogand and The Rock was a very popular heal when he was up against Mick Foley.  The product is stale right now, and yes, the Rock is leaving after WM, but keeping John Cena as the poor man's Rock (which is how I view his current character) is not going to improve the product, even if Rocky raises his arm, and calls him his equal.  All that's going to do, is fuel the dislike many fans have now.  Many adult fans will never accept John Cena the way WWE wants, and if Vince thinks that kayfabe Rock giving Cena his seal of approval is going to change that, he's off his rocker.  I think this whole Rock/Cena situation is going to tell us how WWE is going to business for the next 5 years.  If Cena goes over and get's his hand raised by Rocky, then any hope I had, or anyothers, of a more edgy product is gone, that ship has sailed.  I'm just hoping they pull a page out of 1999, and do something unexpected, that's all I'm saying.  I just know, from past interviews with Dwayne Johnson, he didn't like the PG product, and stated that if he came back, it would be to help WWE head in a new direction.  We'll see....  

 

 

 

 and that's the thing.  that's 800lb Gorilla in the room.  How this plays out, will dictate how the WWE wants to do business from now on.  I was ready last week to say Fuck WWE, but this whole Rock situation has me intrigued.  Now, I'm all prepared to say FUCK WWE, if the Rock does indeed put Cena over, because I find it insulting.  It would be like Bart Starr putting Don Majkowski over IMO.  

 

I also know, that many of the current Super Stars, guys like Orton, don't like the PG Rating.  Cena really has been the only one to truely embrasse it, and that is probably due to his fanbase, and merchandise sales.  If he was around in 1999, he'd be a joke.  All depends on HHH I guess, since he seems to be ready to take over.

 

A great great point I heard the other day about why the prodcut today is how this wrestlers are made.  The FCW, and the OVW class of wrestlers are streamlined products.  The guys of the Attitude Era were veteran guys in a way.  They weren't old, but they did their time in the Indies, and the terretories.  They were able to fine tune their character, which as we know, the best ones are just extensions of their real personality.  Today's WWE, tells them who they have to be, and even what to say.  The Attitude Era was all about the wrestler making up their own promo, sure they had points they had to touch on, but for the most part, they said what they wanted.  Not today, it's all about what Vince and the creative wants them to say.  They have a sheet they have to memorize, and thats thats.  Don't add anything, don't change.  And if the direction and character WWE creative made doesn't click... future endevours or back to FCW.

Why would they turn Cena heel? They already have a dozen top heels in the company and a drought of top faces. Cena sells merch as well. Do you remember how quickly they did an about face when Cena was almost off tv for ONE week during the Cenexus angle? If you really want to see past stars get put-over at the expense of young talent, go watch TNA. Quit setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

Hogan turned heel by beating up Sting and Randy Savage, and cutting a great promo in the ring with Hall and Nash, then the two hottest wrestlers in the biz. Hogan's was portrayed as the biggest thing going that night. You would have Cena turn heel by getting his arse handed to him by an aging actor. The two siutations are barely comparable.

 

I think you're right many adults won't ever accept Cena (I doubt Vince thinks WM will change this) but you'd do untold damage making him come across as out of Rock's league. 

 

The PG rating thing isn't going away, just read the latest quarter earnings the WWE posted. Licensing is accounting for more and more of their revenue. You' and me are not their target audience, hell I don't watch much WWE programming at all between post WM and November time.

 

 

well fuck me. that was almost the best match-booking promo of all time. if only the taker had just nodded or they had shaken hands and left it would have been perfect.

It was pretty damn cool, huh?

 

Cena's promo was such weak sauce.

piss weak. Cena needs to fuck off for a year and then come back.

 

I love the way no-one's even talking about the taker match, i hope no-one does all month, let it just hype itself.

 

cole v king in a loser leaves town match?

I have to respectfully disagree; I thought the Cena promo was great.  

i liked the Cena promo. It wasn't as good as the Rocks, but its hard to match that kind of energy when you've been the big purple 'super cena' for so many years. I think things are just starting to get warmed up and (i hope) the Rock really works with Cena on how true promos are done. this was a good start for him though, plus the death knell of the PG era.

 

 

also, Taker/HHH was .. alright. I really hope Taker doesn't lose. Keep the streak intact and retire the legend that he is.

If you didn't at least partially dig Cena's non-PG promo last night I don't think anything he ever does will be for you. That was pretty much the exact kind of promo that got him raves and put him on the path back in 2003.

Fine, then. Nothing he ever does will be for me. Respect his work ethic and dedication. Seems like a cool guy personally. Like almost nothing about his in-ring product and promos. I'm sorry, but when I hear him claim he still has a degree in "thuganomics" and listen to him "rhyme" weak punchlines at the speed of molasses, it does make me think of 2003 (along with making my eyes roll out of the back of my head). Not in a good way. More along the lines of him having to regress to the nonsense that first got him noticed in order to put up a response. 

 

And I just think it's outrageously offensive for a guy who hasn't ascended anywhere near the heights that The Rock has to insult him for daring to step down and try achieving things in other fields. The Rock accomplished everything there was to accomplish and then did it again while he was with the WWE. If he "never went away", there wouldn't be a main event void for guys like Cena to step into, and the Rock would be a banged-up, tired icon that people would be sick of instead of the fresh-looking, physically-jacked jolt of energy that made everybody so excited a week ago. Fuck Cena. 

 

 

Yeah, had to go find this online too. Screw Cena, but that HHH/Undertaker segment had me kinda giddy.

 

God damn it, Vince McMahon, stop trying to take $40 away from me. I could spend that on groceries.

Yeah, the Cena promo was better then what he normally does, but then again, I guess some cancers are better then others, right?

I think Cena could be a great heal but I'm the only one I guess, but anyways, that promo was embarassing IMO.  Thuganomics, WTF is that (mind you, I didn't watch wrestling from 2002 to 2005)?  

 

 A Brokeback Mountian jokes?  Gay Jokes?  Whaaaaaa?  I guess if your 12, that stuff is "cool" but it almost got me to turn off the TV.   How can he make fun of the Rock's films?  THEY MAKE MONEY, unlike Cena's shit.  The Marine, 12 Rounds?  Plus Cena can't say shit about someone cattering to children, because that is his money maker.   

 

Then after that shit, Punk comes out and steals the show.  His promo in the ring,  that was GOOD.  Him screaming "RANDAL KEITH ORTON" was great.  Punk is truely the best overall star in the company right now.  Presence, heat, promos and his in-ring skills are wonderful.  Last night, I turned into a Punk Mark big time. 

 

Undertaker/HHH... just makes me miss a heal HHH, and I don't think he's coming back.  I'm sure it will be a great match tho. 

I love that gay jokes are dumb but "Fruity Pebbles" and "Barney's anus" are some Oscar Wilde shit.

 

Micah, you sound like the guys who hated The Rock in 1999 because he wasn't Hulk Hogan/Ric Flair. And you do realise that Rock and Cena are obviously totally cool with each other and these promos are *scripted*, right? Cena's not going out there and berating Rock for realz. Getting angry that he's "disrespecting" The Rock is like getting pissed that Bossman totally fed Pepper the dog to Al Snow that one time. You guys are just as big a marks as the kids cheering Cena every week, the only difference is that the guys you mark out for left ten years ago. Here's a brain-frier for you: if Cena had broken through in 1999 and been part of the same ME class as HHH, Rock and Foley, if he had been given the freedom on the mic that the Attitude era allowed, you guys'd be nuts for him.

 

Seriously guys, you should probably stop watching. Here's a guy who can have good matches with almost anyone (Khali and JBL for God' sake) and great matches with the rest. Here's a guy who has no problem laying down when the company asks him to. He's not The Rock. In the history of professional wrestling, there are only two other men who can even hold a candle to Rock's charisma, personality and relationship to the fans. You guys are raging against the dying of the light that is your long-gone mark-out days. Maybe it's time to recognise that WWE had a new generation of fans and adjust your viewing responses accordingly, or ride off into the sunset. I say this with all due respect.

 

 

Dude, if you equate Cena's jokes and the Rock's, I feel for you. A joke is about timing, delivery, and context. Nobody said the Rock's humor is highbrow. It is, however, incredibly biting and memorable. I still lookup on YouTube that random promo he did on Smackdown in Vegas where he talks about Undertaker, Big Show, and Kane coming to the "Smackdown casino" with the Golden Brahma Bull slot machine and winning a jackpot. He proceeds to do horrible imitations of each of them, but is so over-the-top that he makes it funny and timeless. Or when he mocked Paul Heyman sitting on a beach watching Brock Lesnar working out? Or any of his HHH promos? Or his back and forth with Chris Jericho when he debuted? 

 

Who remembers any of Cena's lame rhymes? The same 42 people who bought his album? Remember how his first promo against the new Nexus consisted of him saying "CM Sucks" over and over instead of CM Punk? That really caught on, eh? 

 

As for this being a work or a shoot, it's obviously an angle. But Cena made those comments away from the stage loooong before Rock coming back for an angle was ever a real possibility. I don't think Vince told him to say "For him to go on the front and say, 'I love the business,' and then not be a part of it [is something I'd never do]." two years ago in order to set up a feud for this Wrestlemania. 

 

And if Cena was part of the Attitude Era, you'd see just how much of a watered-down Rock he is. Again, I absolutely respect his work and dedication to the business, and would probably love the guy if I knew him. But he is a vanilla performer who exemplifies this vanilla bland era, not one who is being reined in by it.

 

Cena does nothing for me in the ring with anyone. He's never made anyone's career. I can't remember any particular promos. He may be an asset to the business, but I am utterly indifferent to his in-ring and mic product, and a little offended that he ever thought himself qualified to shoot his mouth off about a guy who made his career possible.

 

Punk really is the shining star on RAW, ATM. Even JR noted how he owned the Elimination Chamber. 

A bit over the top, but I agree with Andrew here. Cena's promo was good. Rock's promo was great. Saying that Cena isn't in the Rock's league is a moot point since The Rock is no longer a wrestler. I can enjoy the current product well enough without constantly lamenting it not being part of the Golden age of the sport.

That said, while we no longer have a truly great face, the last five years have been a top heel renaissance.

Cena would have never made those comments about the Rock (from last night or from interviews in the past couple of years) without the 'E's approval.  

Errr, did you not see the taker Tripper moment? as if people are talking about the realtive merits of the rock's 1999 promo vs cena's 2003 promo. They were both boring, the same shit i've heard way too often. You want to see something good?

 

A completely silent booking of the biggest (and probably best) match at mania, a real life grudge match between two icons who really really don't get along.

 

If i see one match this year, it's that one.

Did someone just say, that Cena has good and great matches?  WHAT?  Dude is a joke in the ring, with his whole 3 movies.  The only time his matches, that I have seen in the lsat three years, have been passable, has been because of his opponents skill set.

 

Call me crazy, but I think a guy, that could have been really good for the 'E' was Ken Anderson.  you can tell they muzzled him big when he was Ken Kennedy.   I like what he has done on TNA so far. 

Loved the silent booking, but following HBK vs. Taker 1/2, ANY Taker WM match will be a little bit of a comedown for me. 

 

I don't fault Cena for having the three moves of Doom. Rock had, like, four. Stone Cold, about the same.

 

I don't fault Cena for re-purposing the People's Elbow for the Five-Knuckle Shuffle. Veeeery few original moves in the business any more. More power to him.

 

I just don't see anything exciting or interesting about the guy. He panders like mad to kids and the military. He SuperCena's his way through entire stables (Legacy, Nexus...Hell, if it were the Attitude Era, I wouldn't be surprised if he single-handedly ended the Corporate Ministry). His raps are a joke (which is why he left that aspect of his schtick behind until last night). It's funny that people think he's getting owned by the Rock here. I don't even think he's keeping up with CM Punk as far as mic work. Hell, I remember Christian tearing him up and repeatedly referring to him as "Marky Mark" (to big laughter and pops from the crowd) before he left the 'E a few years back. 

ok so what we got so far?

 

Alberto v Edge

Miz v Cena (rock reffing? - triple threat?)

Taker v HHH

Punk v Randy

Cole v King (loser leaves town screw job?)

Early Predictions based on the above lineup:

 

Alberto v Edge  -  Alberto wins, they are pushing him hard and i can see him walking out with the belt, Plus Edge is retiring so I hope it leads to one last E&C run.

 

Miz v Cena (rock reffing? - triple threat?) - Much as we all want it Rock aint getting in the ring. I can see this playing out simmilar to the Austin Tyson spat from a few years back.

 

Taker v HHH  Taker wins, Tripper bows out to work full time upstairs.

 

Punk v Randy  Punk wins

 

Cole v King (loser leaves town screw job?)

 

King wins to get his WM moment, But i don't think it will be Cole he wrestles is supect he will manage a wrestler, someone like Sheamus maybe?

 

We should also get a Money in the bank - with a Morrison win?  And some kind of Diva clusterfuck

 

E&C as a tage team you mean, I can see an E&C feud maybe? mind you my finger is not on the pulse of the sd scene.

 

Shameass has money in the bank written all over him, they have no idea what to do with him so it's about time he got settled into the midcard.

 

maybe king v A-rod or something if cole's not going to be in the ring. But I can see them booking cole v king just to see cole get leathered before cheating a win with a run-in or whatever. the question is who's calling it? is the fat man travelling to Atlanta?

 

morrison winning the mitb sounds good, although it's always weird when a face wins it, it's so much easier to book a heel. although if the MIz somehow rolls Cena I would like morrison to cash it in there and then for the win.

 

HBK taker I & II was merely an appetiser. this is the big one.

Yeah I meant a Tag Team run, Let them be unified champs for a while and show the others how it should be done.  HHH/Taker is a toughh one to call, Taker has a WM win over HHH already so it will be a true test of how much Hunter has really grown up.

Someone thinks HHH/Undertaker is going to be better than either of the HBK/'Taker matches? Madness!

taker tripper was 10 years ago, And, i suspect, the last time either of them met in a 1-1 match. while the match may not be on a par with taker v the half bald kid purely because tripper isn't in the same league as him, the frisson of the meta-match i.e. the end of the streak to tripper's power and ego, the fact that they really don't get along , the fact that the rest of card stinks. the possibility of tripper hanging up his boots for good, the possibility of the taker getting fucked just to push tripper's stupid kids movie - well god-damn that's enough for me.

More like 12, but I see your point :)

To be fair, HHH put both Cena and Benoit over clean in WM main events.

anyone who thinks there is even a remote change Undertaker loses,... is nuts.

 i think that there is a remote change.

I don't. Taker is keeping the Streak. Its his legacy.

 

From what I hear RE: Jerry V Cole - is that cole has been down in FCW learning to take bumps, so I am pretty confident that Cole will step into the ring, though I could see it becoming a handicap match to let it go longer then the 5 min it would take Lawler to cripple Cole.

 

Del Rio for the Win. Hands down.

 

Shamus can disappear for all I care (and from the sheets, it seems he is going down fast. I mean, he went from going over Cena clean, to jobbing to Mark Henry? ouch)

 

UT/HHH have had a buttload of matches since then, inclluding a series of really, really bad ones in '02. But the handful of times they faced off when HHH was on SmackDown a coupla years back were really, really good. I'd also take issue with the rest of the card stinking - they save their booking shortcuts and ig spots for WM, so Edge/Del Rio and Cena/Miz will both likly be very good. There's MITB, the likely Sheamus/Bryan match, the Punk/Orton match....all good to great prospects. In terms of star wattage it's only got Rock and the HHH/UT match, but in terms of fresh, entertaining matches this is looking like the equal or better of the last few years.

 

I can't believe there's someone out there under the impression that Ken fucking Anderson is a better prospect than John Cena.

Some people have to be contrarians for the sake of being contrarians Andrew.

I know, but just...wow. Guy's an average worker, always injured, sloppy as fuck in the ring, and his entire promo repertoire is yelling his name and saying the word "asshole".