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¡Señor Lucas violó mi niñez!

post #1 of 63
8/25/06 at 8:42pm
Thread Starter 
Ever watched any of the prequels in Spanish (without subtitles)?

They seem better that way. Interesting.
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post #2 of 63
8/25/06 at 8:51pm
Even better if you turn off the sound completely. And then turn off the t.v.
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post #3 of 63
8/25/06 at 8:59pm
You're really reaching now.

Anyway it's because when you can't understand the dialogue, it's unclear how bad it is.
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post #4 of 63
8/25/06 at 9:01pm
Actually, I think it's because the voice-over actors weren't directed by Lucas.
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post #5 of 63
8/25/06 at 9:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Ellis
You're really reaching now.
Reaching for what?

Quote:
Anyway it's because when you can't understand the dialogue, it's unclear how bad it is.
Could be. It's definitely different, that's for sure. Much more silent-film like.
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post #6 of 63
8/25/06 at 9:04pm
Would my rep point have been positive or negative, Andrew? I can't tell.

EDIT: If Lucas ever does get around to making and releasing any of those experimental movies he talks about, I would seriously like to see him do a film without dialogue - just music and sound effects.
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post #7 of 63
8/25/06 at 9:24pm
I went to a club a few years ago that projected Phantom Menace up on the ceiling and it played pretty well, actually. As said before, it had a weird silent movie thing going on. Even the Binx factor didn't seem so bad, but that may have been because they were playing Skinny Puppy over most of his scenes.
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post #8 of 63
8/25/06 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewlett
Would my rep point have been positive or negative, Andrew? I can't tell.
Positive.


Anyway Carl, I meant to imply that you're really reaching for a reason to convince yourself that the movies are good, but I'm just joshin' ya anyway.
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post #9 of 63
8/25/06 at 9:30pm
Thread Starter 
Gotcha. No, that's not what this is. Obviously, this doesn't change what the movies are (or aren't) in the least. And I'm pretty clear on how I feel about the movies now (though I keep it off the boards). I just thought it was pretty interesting how different it is to watch them this way. They do tend to have that "weird silent movie thing going on", as OCallaghan said.
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post #10 of 63
8/25/06 at 10:02pm
Why is it that everyone who liked the prequels are accused of 'convincing' themselves the movies are good? I wish I'd had that power when I was 12 and walked out of Mortal Kombat: Annihilation.
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post #11 of 63
8/25/06 at 10:14pm
Watching any movie in a different language is at least good for some childish fun and can give you a different 'in' to the movie, breaking you out of old patterns of watching a movie you've seen many times. This is no different, nor especially true of, the prequels.
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post #12 of 63
8/25/06 at 11:31pm
Fantastic thread title.
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post #13 of 63
8/25/06 at 11:36pm
I don't speak Prequel, but the French dub on Vader in Ep IV is sublime.
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post #14 of 63
8/25/06 at 11:39pm
Luckly I saw the original trilogy with subtitles instead of the Spanish dub.

I've watched a little of the prequels in Spanish, but I don't like the voices at all. Maybe I'll give it another try, would love to hear how Sidious sounds in Spanish in ep III
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post #15 of 63
8/25/06 at 11:46pm
I typically cycle through the various languages when I'm watching a new DVD just for fun, so I'm right there with you guys. I will say this, though: I watched almost the entirety of the '89 Batman in French once, and the Joker is surprisingly effective as a Frenchman.
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post #16 of 63
8/26/06 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim N.
Fantastic thread title.
Agreed.
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post #17 of 63
8/26/06 at 12:16am
I'd love to know what Yoda sounds liked dubbed, and if he makes any sense to viewers.
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post #18 of 63
8/26/06 at 1:14am


Doesn't have quite the same ring to it as DEATH STAR, does it?
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post #19 of 63
8/26/06 at 1:36am
A lot of movies/shows play better in different languages. After catching some of 90210 in Japanese I found I only wanted to break one of Tori Spelling's kneecaps.
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post #20 of 63
8/26/06 at 9:37am
With the Episode III score, there's also a DVD with little montages accompanying different themes throughout the trilogy. The "romantic" scenes on Naboo actually pretty much worked as a dialogue-free musical montage.
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post #21 of 63
8/26/06 at 11:36pm

Forgive my Spanish...

I see all the Great Shibboleths of my Age fall, and so has it been with Star War and Metallica. But, and I use that conjunction with malice aforthought, I have just watched Episode 1 again with sound turned very much down. Once you forget about empathy, the images do achieve a certain epic quality.
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post #22 of 63
8/27/06 at 12:51am
Vader: Obi-wan nunca le dijo lo que sucedió a su padre...

Luke: ¡El me dijo bastante! ¡El me dijo usted lo mató!

Vader: No, soy su padre.

Luke: No, eso no es verdad. ¡Eso es imposible!

Vader: Busque sus sentimientos, usted sabe que ser verdad.

Luke: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
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post #23 of 63
8/27/06 at 3:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Cunningham
Ever watched any of the prequels in Spanish (without subtitles)?

They seem better that way. Interesting.
I watched part of Revenge of the Sith with the Spanish dub a while back, and I agree. The voice actors were much more expressive than the actual ones, particularly in the cases of Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman. I thought the humor came across more effectively, too (Hayden Christensen completely lacks comedic timing). Star Wars movies are actually a decent way to practice listening comprehension because the dialogue is very simple.

Also, it's pointless to watch the Spanish dub with the Spanish subtitles on, because the dialogue track does not match the subtitles, at least in the American version of the DVD. I assume the same is probably true for the French dub as well.
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post #24 of 63
8/27/06 at 4:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Ellis
I typically cycle through the various languages when I'm watching a new DVD just for fun, so I'm right there with you guys. I will say this, though: I watched almost the entirety of the '89 Batman in French once, and the Joker is surprisingly effective as a Frenchman.
Only film thats gotten a whole lot funnier when I switched to French is Commando. The part where Matrix drops Sauly is a riot. Sounds like some weird ghost call or something.
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post #25 of 63
8/27/06 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werbal_Kint
Vader: Obi-wan nunca le dijo lo que sucedió a su padre...

Luke: ¡El me dijo bastante! ¡El me dijo usted lo mató!

Vader: No, soy su padre.

Luke: No, eso no es verdad. ¡Eso es imposible!

Vader: Busque sus sentimientos, usted sabe que ser verdad.

Luke: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
El spoilero!!
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post #26 of 63
8/27/06 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ServantOfDagon
The "romantic" scenes on Naboo actually pretty much worked as a dialogue-free musical montage.
If only that's how those scenes were actually played out in the film itself, much pain could have been spared. One of the precious few moments in the Prequels that works like gangbusters is that mesmerizing sequence of Anakin and Padme on Coruscant in EP3, staring out across the cityscape. Wonderful scenes like those frustrate me all the more, because it proves the Prequels clearly had the potential for greatness.

It's disappointing that a director who cut his teeth so well on purely visual storytelling in film school would now find himself on the other end of the spectrum, relying upon clunky, hamfisted talkiness.
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post #27 of 63
8/27/06 at 1:39pm
Man, I hears ya. On that level Order 66 worked too, even though I didn't know any of the fuckers that got killed.
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post #28 of 63
8/27/06 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ServantOfDagon
Man, I hears ya. On that level Order 66 worked too, even though I didn't know any of the fuckers that got killed.
And yet I wonder if Order 66 would have worked as well in its current montage form if we HAD known those fallen Jedi better. They are killed in such easy, perfunctory ways -- if we had known them, I bet we would have felt cheated that they didn't go out in a more deserving fashion, which would have taken tons of screentime to give each character's demise justice. Kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
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post #29 of 63
8/27/06 at 9:45pm
I thought the long-headed guy went out okay...

Don't forget, they're not just killed by some hicks that got drafted by the Republic. They were ganged up on by clones of a man who shot a Jedi Master at the zenith of his powers right in the chest several times.
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post #30 of 63
8/27/06 at 10:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werbal_Kint
Vader: Busque sus sentimientos, usted sabe que ser verdad.
"You know be truth"?

I didn't know Vader was illiterate, and was so formal when talking to Luke (or is he Colombian?).
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post #31 of 63
8/28/06 at 12:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration
And yet I wonder if Order 66 would have worked as well in its current montage form if we HAD known those fallen Jedi better. They are killed in such easy, perfunctory ways -- if we had known them, I bet we would have felt cheated that they didn't go out in a more deserving fashion, which would have taken tons of screentime to give each character's demise justice. Kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
I think it undoubtedly would have worked better if we had known those fallen Jedi better. For the average moviegoer, they were just a bunch of red shirts. If we had seen them interacting as teammates and colleagues who had distinct personalities and relationships with each other, their deaths would have been more meaningful. It was sad to see them slaughtered, but it was hard to feel more than that for any specific Jedi. They were strangers to us.
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post #32 of 63
8/28/06 at 1:03am
Well, we barely knew Boba Fett, and look what an uproar his cursory death in JEDI caused. If we had cared about these Jedi, and they were dispatched in the same short order montage seen in the film, I think people would feel cheated. It's bad enough these Jedi were so easily caught off guard, and so quickly dispatched.

But I agree, I think it would have been better to know them and care about them. Fewer, better characterized Jedi would have helped. Seeing them out in the field, in action, and not sitting around in space chairs being space assholes, would have really helped.

EDIT: Oh, and to stay on-topic...¡Que la Fuerza te acompañe!
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post #33 of 63
8/28/06 at 1:50am
Boba Fett still had more characterization than the majority of the Jedi. We knew more about him from his brief appearance in ESB than we did about some Jedi who appeared in all three prequels.

It wouldn't have taken a lot of time to give the Jedi some personalities. Supporting characters don't need a lot of depth, but they deserve at least something more than sitting in a chair and looking stoic if we're supposed to react emotionally to their deaths. For example, Kit Fisto became a fan favorite just because he flashed a cheesy grin during the arena battle in AOTC. He became an actual person, not just the tentacle-headed guy.
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post #34 of 63
8/28/06 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozz
For example, Kit Fisto became a fan favorite just because he flashed a cheesy grin during the arena battle in AOTC.
Also, he has a porn-star name.
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post #35 of 63
8/28/06 at 6:44am
I like the Star Wars movies in Spanish, but not so much in French, especially when it comes to Vader. I don't know, French just doesn't sound very threatening. A guy who threatens to kick your ass in Spanish is more likely to make me run away. Now if we could get a dub in German, that would be fucking terrifying.
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post #36 of 63
8/28/06 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration
Well, we barely knew Boba Fett, and look what an uproar his cursory death in JEDI caused. If we had cared about these Jedi, and they were dispatched in the same short order montage seen in the film, I think people would feel cheated. It's bad enough these Jedi were so easily caught off guard, and so quickly dispatched.
I find the purge montage suffered more from the fact that the way it was written and edited seems to suggest that not only does Palpatine know the clone commanders by thier ridiculous nicknames but that he personally contacted each one across the galaxy to issue order 66. I guess Lucas has never heard of issuing a general order to multiple commanders at the same time so as to not allow any Jedi to receive a warning before Palps got around to issuing the order to the last few remaining clone commanders. Sure, it's a nitpick but it just gives more weight to my theory that Lucas is an idiot savant. Capable of coming up with good ideas but just as capable of screwing them up if given the chance.

And just so this post is on topic: I too find that this nitpick and all others disappear when watching the prequels in a foreign language without the subtitles. Just goes to show that even though I despise the prequels it's not because I haven't tried every possible way of liking them. And I'd say that goes for most prequel critics.
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post #37 of 63
8/28/06 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibatron
And just so this post is on topic: I too find that this nitpick and all others disappear when watching the prequels in a foreign language without the subtitles. Just goes to show that even though I despise the prequels it's not because I haven't tried every possible way of liking them. And I'd say that goes for most prequel critics.
But it also shows that there is something worthwhile there. Visually, they're great to watch. Lucas has always said (even back during the original films) that these are meant to be like silent films, using action, visuals and music to tell the story, and the dialogue is secondary. Watching them in another language, in a way, takes them closer to what they were intended to be.
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post #38 of 63
8/28/06 at 5:58pm
And a STAR WARS thread comes back full circle in only 37 posts. Well done, team!
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post #39 of 63
8/28/06 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphibatron
I find the purge montage suffered more from the fact that the way it was written and edited seems to suggest that not only does Palpatine know the clone commanders by thier ridiculous nicknames but that he personally contacted each one across the galaxy to issue order 66. I guess Lucas has never heard of issuing a general order to multiple commanders at the same time so as to not allow any Jedi to receive a warning before Palps got around to issuing the order to the last few remaining clone commanders. Sure, it's a nitpick but it just gives more weight to my theory that Lucas is an idiot savant. Capable of coming up with good ideas but just as capable of screwing them up if given the chance.
Palpatine only contacted those five or six (or seven) key, in-a-position-to-take-out-the-most-irritatingly-bothersome-Jedi-Masters clone commanders in that sequence, with "Order 66" trickling down to the rest of the rank-and-file afterward.

So it's still what you think it should've been; I'm not a frequent Lucas-defender, but he had it right on during that particular scene, with the order going directly from Palpatine to the clone commanders' embedded armor commo-gear, which prevented any of the Jedi from twigging to it.

As for their nicknames...yeah, some things you just can't change. "Oddball"...guh. (Though Karen Traviss has certainly earned massive kudos from me for her work with the clones -- and their lifestyles -- in the novels of late.)
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post #40 of 63
8/28/06 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
But it also shows that there is something worthwhile there. Visually, they're great to watch. Lucas has always said (even back during the original films) that these are meant to be like silent films, using action, visuals and music to tell the story, and the dialogue is secondary. Watching them in another language, in a way, takes them closer to what they were intended to be.
There are plenty of films out there that combine beautiful visuals with story, dialogue and action to tell a great story. Compared to them, the prequels are a test pattern.
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post #41 of 63
8/28/06 at 6:47pm
Sigh.

So how many threads is this now that have been reduced to prequel-bashing in the last couple of weeks? Maybe the mods should just set up a permanent prequel-bashing forum.
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post #42 of 63
8/28/06 at 7:27pm
Yeah you're right, sorry. Guess they bring out the worst in me.

On-topic, has anyone seen the films in Japanese, or Chinese?
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post #43 of 63
8/28/06 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
I like the Star Wars movies in Spanish, but not so much in French, especially when it comes to Vader. I don't know, French just doesn't sound very threatening. A guy who threatens to kick your ass in Spanish is more likely to make me run away. Now if we could get a dub in German, that would be fucking terrifying.
A German Vader just sounds....right. Hearing the bad guys in the Death Star speak in German also sounds...right.

Am I...right?

The three dots I type before...'right', are annoying...right?
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post #44 of 63
8/28/06 at 7:59pm
I've seen every SW movie in Spanish. I was living in Spain when Episode III came out, and the NOOOOOO wasn't as painful as it is in English. Jake Lloyd's voiceover is much better.
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post #45 of 63
8/28/06 at 8:07pm
This thread has highlighted an interesting idea, a prequel of SW films with minimal dialogue, with long non-dialogue interludes, montages and sections in each film. I think this would have been pretty amazing and 'artful' indeed. Very un-SW-like, but an interesting idea still.
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post #46 of 63
8/28/06 at 9:25pm
It really is all in the editing. I mean how amazing are those tone poem TV spots for EPISODE I? The emotion and scope conveyed in those tiny :30 or :60 spots are phenomenal. I wish they had made more for EPs 2 and 3. I would love to see a really clever editor convert all six films into a montage of some kind. Could be truly beautiful.
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post #47 of 63
8/28/06 at 10:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration
It really is all in the editing. I mean how amazing are those tone poem TV spots for EPISODE I? The emotion and scope conveyed in those tiny :30 or :60 spots are phenomenal.
Right on. Those were indeed outstanding. We went from that to the silly "career" spots for AOTC to plain ole generic 30 second spots for ROTS.

The tone poems and "The Beginning" are the main reasons why I believe TPM Disc 2 is the best SW DVD yet.
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post #48 of 63
8/28/06 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanzo Steel
the NOOOOOO wasn't as painful as it is in English. Jake Lloyd's voiceover is much better.
If Lloyd did the "NOOOOOO!", I'd pay again to see that.
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post #49 of 63
8/29/06 at 12:28am
It's worth noting, though, that both in English or Spanish, "NOOOOOO!" is still "NOOOOOO!".

Russian would be interesting as well.
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post #50 of 63
8/29/06 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason P. Thompson
If Lloyd did the "NOOOOOO!", I'd pay again to see that.
I was in the audience during one of Jake's discussions at Celebration III (the Saturday one with him and Warwick Davis where he kicked the kid's ass at N64 Episode I Racer), and I have to admit that the guy's voice has definitely gone more "basso" -- for the better -- in the years since he did the film. I think he could pull off a credible, Hamill-level "NOOOOOO!!" today if the situation were to arise.

(Come to think, his voice was starting to get slightly deeper than Hamill's by that point already...)
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