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Serious, non-baiting book purchase question - Page 2

post #51 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
And you could fuck your wife any night of the week and she wouldn't care as long as you're done in 45 seconds, as usual.
You say that like it's a bad thing...
post #52 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller
Actually, my guess is she would think "Dude, I don't give a fuck. Can you just pay for your nerdy kid book so I can go back to not giving a shit? Seriously, as another former clerk, someone can walk up to me and tell me they're buying something because they need help with their current Astronaut Race Car Driving Rock Star gig and I wouldn't have cared. Would have just wanted them to stop fucking talking. Doesn't make me any less self conscious as a consumer though.
I don't know what kind of retail you worked, but I was a bookstore clerk, and we definitely used to mock people for their shitty books. I would imagine that record stores, book stores and video stores all attract employees who will be snobby like that.
post #53 of 104
I don't see the difference between buying a sci-fi/fantasy novel and buying a two-disc collector's edition of a sci-fi/fantasy/horror film on DVD.

In either case, I'm there to buy something I want, not to impress the clerk behind the counter.
post #54 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
I would imagine that record stores, book stores and video stores all attract employees who will be snobby like that.
Or eventually turn them that way.
post #55 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
I don't know what kind of retail you worked, but I was a bookstore clerk, and we definitely used to mock people for their shitty books. I would imagine that record stores, book stores and video stores all attract employees who will be snobby like that.
Grocery Store initially, but then music store (instruments, not records) and then bartender, which, while not retail specifically, was still people buying stuff from you and telling you every detail about their life. Which means, first, you try to find information to make more money off of them, then, eventually, don't care anymore at all. We used to get snobby about what kind of guitar or tab book they bought, or what kind of mixed drink they bought (seriously, stop killing hennesy with coke), but eventually even that wore off. No voice was louder than the annoyance I had with my job.
post #56 of 104
Devin, sometime ago, during a discussion about "guilty pleasures", you wrote something to the effect that there should be no "guilty" pleasures. You stated that, if someone likes something, they should take a sort of pride in it and not fear what others think. Given such a brave stance, how do you reconcile it with your fear of what the cashier at Walden Books thinks about you purchasing "The Subtle Knife"? By your own estimation, you shouldn't give a rat's ass about what the cashier thinks as long as you're interested in your purchases. Just curious.
post #57 of 104
Thread Starter 
Because I only bought the book because they're making it into a movie and I am going to be writing about it a lot.

Edit: I'm sorry, but isn't that obvious from reading the first post? I never buy books like this, which is what made me think of the people who buy them all the time. And how shameful that must be.
post #58 of 104
Not regarding the specific cashier issue.

I used to be in the not-caring-camp regarding geekery in public, but then I realized what Devin mentioned in the side note:

Quote:
I find that nerds who claim that they don't care what people think about their nerdly ways are often really unselfaware, and they sometimes think that they're way less of a dork than they really are.
I noticed I was slipping into this more, so I scaled it back some (wore shirts that didn't have superhero insignias on them, read real books on the morning commute on the train in addition to comics), and it's lead to better interaction with the world. Seriously.

Back to the cashier issue... I generally don't care, unless I see her more than once and/or have a rapport. I've made jokes about buying silly things like a Superman vs. Terminator trade paperback at B&N ("I couldn't find Spider-Man vs. Citizen Kane"), stuff like that goes a long way. Flirting really is a joy of life.

The only thing I get embarassed about anymore is my wrestling fandom. I don't watch it anymore with rare exception, but I follow recaps and gossip and the usual garbage online. It's the one thing I dig that I can't explain to people, can't justify.

If you think the look on a cashier's face when you bring up a Young Adult novel is bad, try the look on a new girlfriend's face the first time she finds out you're a wrestling fan. My ex looked at me like I used her grandma's mouth as a toilet.
post #59 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
also, btw, personally: I don't pick up women who are impressed by credit cards and cars. And not just because I don't have those things.
Where are these chicks who are impressed by debt? I must find them and show them various bills in return for fellatio.
post #60 of 104
Close your eyes. Go to sleep. There they are.
post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
I never buy books like this
So you've received every Harry Potter book as a gift then?
post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
Edit: I'm sorry, but isn't that obvious from reading the first post? I never buy books like this, which is what made me think of the people who buy them all the time. And how shameful that must be.
No, it isn't obvious. Also, it seems to me that the same rule that you stated in the "Guilty Pleasures" thread should still apply. Perhaps, even more so because you're doing it as part of your work.
post #63 of 104
(to Poxy)

Harry Potter is crossover. Anyone anywhere has license to buy it without being trashed (except perhaps as being too mainstream by hipsters or high-end appreciators). You'd probably even be able to use Potter as a conversation-starter. Everyone's read them.

But your analogy to sci-fi/fantasy/horror DVDs is actually not bad, except that most of these kinds of films, costing what they do, don't cater to the sort of nerd niche that a book series can. So there's apt to be more Shannaraesque books than D&D-type movies.
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf
It's worked a lot. It's actually worked really well over the last 12 months.
You were inspired by Brett Ratner weren't you?
post #65 of 104
Harry Potter is just general fiction at this point.

And DVDs are different, anyways, because at most DVD stores the people you're buying your films from tend to also be film-nerds who dig that sort of thing. Such isn't the case with a bookstore. I've yet to see a Dan Simmons book in the 'employee recomendations' section.
post #66 of 104
Reading an advanced copy of Simmons' "The Terror" (published in January). It'll be there.
post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Hudler
But your analogy to sci-fi/fantasy/horror DVDs is actually not bad, except that most of these kinds of films, costing what they do, don't cater to the sort of nerd niche that a book series can. So there's apt to be more Shannaraesque books than D&D-type movies.
It'd be like constantly buying/renting Full Moon type titles.
post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Hudler
But your analogy to sci-fi/fantasy/horror DVDs is actually not bad, except that most of these kinds of films, costing what they do, don't cater to the sort of nerd niche that a book series can. So there's apt to be more Shannaraesque books than D&D-type movies.
Your average hardcover goes for a lot more than your average DVD does these days, and the most recent Terry Brooks novel was in the top ten for several weeks, so it's not like these people are waiting for the paperback.

As for the Full Moon analogy, just like there are quality films and schlock films, there's quality SF and there's crap.
post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingcujoI
Where are these chicks who are impressed by debt? I must find them and show them various bills in return for fellatio.
I don't think that's what he's saying. He just saying that in his opinion women who are attracted to a man because of his income and car are not the kind he'd be interested in.

I honestly don't have to worry about what the cashier thinks when I buy fantasy or Sci-Fi because I don't buy that stuff. That's not to say that I'm not a nerd, I'm probably one of the most self-aware nerds there is. When I buy comics (which is rarely these days) I have the added benefit of having the comic shop girl be as big a nerd as I am, if not bigger. I have no doubt that cashiers at music, book, video stores make fun of what customers purchase. I would too. I just don't have a hang-up about what they think of me and would probably be willing to cop to any assessment of my buying habits. Seriously though, people, stop buying Star Wars paperbacks.
post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
As for the Full Moon analogy, just like there are quality films and schlock films, there's quality SF and there's crap.
Paul Schrader was just writing about the film canon in the latest Film Comment, and I think we as a society still hold onto these tangential but definiable canons in film, music and literature, even if there's almost too much to feel fully informed of a canon (I think we're at a weird information dam in history). And my point is that those artists who transcend genre (Dick, Lethem, etc.) have already transcended it. Xanth will not.
post #71 of 104
The other day I bought THIS for my 7 year old daughter. I can only imagine what the chick behind the counter thought of me.
post #72 of 104
She probably thought you were a good homo father.
post #73 of 104
She wondered if you plan on seeing this.

Tell her that you need to read Devins review first.
post #74 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte
And my point is that those artists who transcend genre (Dick, Lethem, etc.) have already transcended it. Xanth will not.
I won't argue about the crapgasm that is Xanth, but does an artist have to transcend their genre to be considered worthwhile?
post #75 of 104
Yes.
post #76 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
I won't argue about the crapgasm that is Xanth, but does an artist have to transcend their genre to be considered worthwhile?
See... how does one "transcend their genre"? I always thought that was one of those phrases that people like to throw around that doesn't mean anything. It also sounds like genre work is something that's held to a lower standard.

When someone makes a great work in an established genre, to me, it means they help define the genre. Tolkien's LOTR doesn't transcend the genre - it set the standard. Not a whole hell of a lot lives up to that standard, but it definitely set the bar. Works like Gibson's NEUROMANCER changed what sci-fi could conceivably do. Genre boundaries are fluid and encompassing.

I haven't seen THE FOUNTAIN yet, but from what I've heard it definitely pushes what sci-fi can do. Same for PAN'S LABYRINTH and fantasy/horror.
post #77 of 104
It's art appreciation 101. Say a writer/director produces a book/film about a particular topic or theme, or tells it in a certain mode. There's a built-in audience of people who care about the particular topic, theme or mode of storytelling. Those are the soft sells/ easy targets. The true genre artist is the person who can make people who aren't easy targets into people who are wrapped up in the work, and make the easy targets remember what it was that made the genre/theme/etc. interesting in the first place.
post #78 of 104
I'm self-conscious enough that on the rare occasion where I do need a sci-fi or fantasy book, I'll order it off Amazon. I've got the same hang-up about buying comics or graphic novels, although--weirdly enough--I don't have a problem plopping down in a chair at Borders and reading GNs for three hours. So I guess I have a subconscious line when it comes to shameful nerd stuff: reading and enjoying it in public just makes you a dabbler, but spending your hard-earned money on it makes a definitive statement about your taste and maturity.

Although on the shame scale, buying fantasy novels seems nowhere near as humilating as buying, say, action figures or Sideshow statues or trading card games.
post #79 of 104
I'm more self-conscious about buying serious literature. I'm always sure the person at the counter is thinking "you're just now reading The Sun Also Rises?"
post #80 of 104
On the flip side, does anyone else think that a girl's hotness gets knocked up like 10 points if you see her ready a geeky/genre book or comic?

I saw a girl reading V for Vendetta on the subway the other day and had to hold myself off.
post #81 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man
I'm more self-conscious about buying serious literature. I'm always sure the person at the counter is thinking "you're just now reading The Sun Also Rises?"
Yeah, I've done that.
post #82 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Hudler
It's art appreciation 101. Say a writer/director produces a book/film about a particular topic or theme, or tells it in a certain mode. There's a built-in audience of people who care about the particular topic, theme or mode of storytelling. Those are the soft sells/ easy targets. The true genre artist is the person who can make people who aren't easy targets into people who are wrapped up in the work, and make the easy targets remember what it was that made the genre/theme/etc. interesting in the first place.
I would add to this that the appeal of genre fiction is escapism (be it Sci-Fi, Western or Harlequin). And this ties into the heart of so many arguments we've had here. There are people who have no appreciation for the art or craft of something, but only want the high of it. Some people just want a western the way sometimes you might want a burger. They want their fan fic like some people want drugs. But escapism is not the purpose of good nor great art.
post #83 of 104
All literature, all art, is escapist.
post #84 of 104
The definition: the avoidance of reality by absorption of the mind in entertainment or in an imaginative situation, activity, etc.

I tend to think good to great art makes you think about life.
post #85 of 104
There's life, and there's art. If you're in a theater watching a movie, or if you're reading a book, you're not engaging in life. It's escapist. Some people enjoy escaping into Lolita, some people enjoy escapign into The Dragonriders of Pern.
post #86 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater
....Although on the shame scale, buying fantasy novels seems nowhere near as humilating as buying, say, action figures or Sideshow statues or trading card games.
In the realm of The Nerd, could it possibly get any worse than trading card games (as far as buying items you might find at a book store)? I would think not, but I've been surprised before.
post #87 of 104
I find the act of people enjoying whatever diversions it is they enjoy being called "shameful" by people who have shouted the praises of any number of geek pursuits on this board a little hypocritical. You guys quiver in fear over buying a sci-fi book in public but have no problem being there opening day to buy a Wii?
post #88 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man
There's life, and there's art. If you're in a theater watching a movie, or if you're reading a book, you're not engaging in life. It's escapist. Some people enjoy escaping into Lolita, some people enjoy escapign into The Dragonriders of Pern.
But I think the best type of art is the type that tries to express and explore some facet from our everyday world.
post #89 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
a Wii?

I guess I'm not as big a nerd as I thought as I have no idea what this is.
post #90 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man
There's life, and there's art. If you're in a theater watching a movie, or if you're reading a book, you're not engaging in life. It's escapist. Some people enjoy escaping into Lolita, some people enjoy escapign into The Dragonriders of Pern.
Art at its best offers a dialogue between the artist and the viewer. And art can expose or present truths about the human condition. What's the difference between Pern and drug use?
post #91 of 104
I'm not saying there's no difference between Dostoevsky and (insert funny example of lame fantasy writer), but they're both escapist. Dostoevsky might be even more escapist, because it occupies your mind more. And I'd sure rather think about Ivan K. wrestling with his demons than think about my own boring-ass life.
post #92 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Man
but they're both escapist.
Actually, I should say that the act of reading either is escapist.
post #93 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
I find the act of people enjoying whatever diversions it is they enjoy being called "shameful" by people who have shouted the praises of any number of geek pursuits on this board a little hypocritical. You guys quiver in fear over buying a sci-fi book in public but have no problem being there opening day to buy a Wii?
Personally I'm not name-calling. If I liked something, I'd own up to it. But if we're at any point classifying geeky activities to determine a heirarchy, my question/comment still stands (and yes, I know there exists a chart out there on the internet detailing this social ladder, so I'm not really asking that we do that on this thread).
post #94 of 104
I guess I understand that you get out what you put in, and that sort of thing, and I get the idea that there's nothing inherently wrong with escapism (or drugs for that matter), but there's a spectrum of how art can be used, and if it's to escape from unhappiness, etc. then more than it being bad art or whatever, it's just vacuum-filling. Great art tends to be edifying.
post #95 of 104
Let me just say that if your literary diet consists of nothing but Terry Brooks and Kevin Anderson, then yes, there's a problem.
post #96 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte
I worked in a video store for a year after college. There's the regs, to which the employees always gossip about in a limited sense (so and so rents eight tapes of porn, so and so is super particular about x, so and so always has a story about their late returns, etc.), the people you comp for the benefits, and the people you want to fuck or be friends with. In terms of the later they may come or may not come in on the regular. This works on both sides of the counter. Bad taste is always gonna be an issue with stuff like that. And if you're in the 20-30 age range, shit, that's a lot of the people you could be fucking.

Video store, huh? Awesome, I put in about 18 months as assistant manager at a video store during college myself. While we certainly had our share of regulars that had some gossip surrounding them (ultra-conservative guy who said non-family friendly movies shouldn't be made, period, crazy lady who pretended to be deaf and mute but could actually speak and hear,etc.), most of them had enough years on the employees to be of little substantive interest to us (we were all 19 or so).

As for the younger crowd, I guess my experience just differed in that the almost all the people in my peer group who came in were on dates and picking out movies together, and so 99.9% of my customers I had no interest in.

In either case, I can't imagine any of my customers being ashamed enough in anything they rented to think twice about not getting rung up by one of us. Any gossip or crack we made about them was entirely fleeting, and quickly forgotten once we were out of work.
post #97 of 104
Also: buying something geeky will generally only get you noticed if you DON'T look like a geeky person. When a sweaty, unshaven guy in a Green Lantern t-shirt drops fifty bucks on manga or Star Trek novels, the girl behind the counter at Borders doesn't give a fuck. You were already off her radar long before you plunked those books down on the counter. It's the people who look normal, well-adjusted or popular that get the stares and get talked about after they leave. Because the girl behind the counter is looking to flirt too, and she's disappointed that you suck so badly.
post #98 of 104
Anything with a hint of genre about it is going to draw sneers from some (often attractive, for whatever that's worth) quarter. I respect the wish to regard one's own tastes as female-approved (as if the whole sex has come together in conference), but the fact remains that a 20+ year old man does not have to travel far with a copy of The Goblet of Fire in his hands to raise eyebrows. Successful and excellent a show as it is, a reference to Battlestar Galactica can earn you mockery in many, many crowds.

Much of this thread seems to be predicated on the notion that women have consistent taste. But come on. This is obvious, obvious shit: purchasing Watchmen from one cute clerk will get you a smirk; buying it from the cute girl at the next register will start a lovely, flirty conversation. I would rather have cause to talk to the #2s of the world than waste time pandering to the #1s.

I find it a bit curious that this conversation began with reference to His Dark Materials; it, like Potter, is treated relatively gently in the mainstream (and some literary circles, divergent as those communities are), especially compared to Dragonriders of Whatever, Hellboy, or even George R.R. Martin.

Quote:
Because the girl behind the counter is looking to flirt too, and she's disappointed that you suck so badly.
I think we must know very different store clerks.
post #99 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai
I've sought out some work my favourite authors have written under assumed names to pay the bills; for example, Mitchell Smith wrote a series of westerns early in his career, the sort with the steamy covers. Lawrence Block wrote a bunch early in his career, but they're impossible to find.
I've always been curious about Block's porn career
post #100 of 104
[QUOTE=Alex Riviello] On the flip side, does anyone else think that a girl's hotness gets knocked up like 10 points if you see her ready a geeky/genre book or comic? [QUOTE]

Actually, for me it's the opposite. All of the girls I've known who were into comics/Star Wars/whatever turned out to be seriously annoying and/or just relatively high-maintainance or disturbed. One turned out to be a witch (in the Wicca sense).

Though to be fair, metal chicks are FAR worse. Get away from them.

The only flaw I've found in the comic chick stereotype that I've developed are indy comics girls...they're usually a whole different type of dysfunctional, but better.

As far as Devin's original question, I used to feel self-conscious about this sort of thing, but nowadays not so much. I've grown out of it for the most part. It probably comes from having to buy condoms...if I can get over that, buying a George R.R. Martin book is a piece of cake. Even though I suppose me buying one presumes I've never had a need for a condom in the first place...
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