I finally watched "The Crying Game"

I hadn't heard the big secret when I saw it, but I had heard that there was a big secret. That left me looking for twists, and when he/she was introduced, I knew what it was. It's hard to say whether I would have spotted it if I hadn't been looking for the big twist, but I thought it was pretty obvious. Fortunately, the movie does have more to offer than that.

I was fooled at the time, but in my defense I would submit that a crossdressing romantic lead was somewhat more unexpected 14 years ago. And Whitaker sells the story pretty well.

As for Rea's sexuality, that's left open to speculation if I recall correctly. It would seem at the least that he's become much more flexible about the issue by the film's end.

It's too bad that Rea never really became a big name in the years following.

Definitely surprised me, as I was only 12 when I first saw it and knew little to nothing about it (outside of the IRA angle), but as I got older I realised what an incredibly rare film it is - one that treats its audience as adults and delivers in almost all ways...

As for Rea's character, he's obviously appalled when he finds out what he finds out, but I think the scene at the film's end shows that he has respect for Dil, whether he is in love with him/her or not. I think the rest is up to you, again proof that its an adult thriller in the best possible sense. And I think Rea's done okay - V for Vendetta showed that, as well as the excellent but rarely seen Citizen X, possibly the finest showcase for his acting talents.

Dunno if that answers your question, but its good to talk about one of the better films of the early 90's.

Despite the quality of acting within this film, I have never got over my initial dismissal of it's quality because it stole it's primary plot hook/twist from iconic 80's horror flick "Sleepaway Camp".

Damn I still haven't it yet. I need to get on that.

Before watching it, I was under the impression it was an ending twist. The real surprise for me was that there was still a decent half of a movie left after the reveal.

We wouldn't have Ace Ventura without it.

When I first saw the movie I didn't know there was a twist. I thought he/she was and "ugly manly girl" but was still shocked speechless when you see the dick. I just didn't expect it.

When I 'saw' the twist I just burst out laughing and kept pointing at the screen. It was just complete shock.

Also, I really, intensely hate Forest Whitaker. Can't stand the guy in any movie.

Any reason in particular, or is it an allergic reaction that can't be explained?

I've yet to see it. I knew about the "twist" ending when it came about. What I didn't know was that movie is supposed to be a thriller.

BTW Sackley, props to mentioning Citizen X, I've been meaning to see that for sometime.

That's a pretty strong stance on someone I consider to be a hugely underrated actor. Whitaker brings an A-Game to everything he does, especially as of late (The Shield, Last King of Scotland). Hell, he even put forth a genuine effort in "Species". Unless he looks like the guy who raped and murdered your mother, you'll have a hard time convincing me there's a rational explanation for that statement.

The man put Mickey Rourke's face back together. Back when that meant something.

I watched this when I was about 15, and although I was shocked by the "twist", I think I was more shocked by the death of Whitaker's character, after really enjoying his performance and the rapport he had with Rea.

Really must watch this again.

I know it's somehwat of a weird opinion of mine, I certainly understand why a lot of people like him. I just can't look at the guy - he annoys me to no end, how he moves his eyes and how he walks, almost everything he does irritates me. Now I must say I haven't watched everything he did. But I recently watched AMERICAN GUN and hated each and every scene he was in.

You're welcome to disagree, I'm not trying to convince you or anything. Nobody ever echoed my thought about him so I guess I'm the only one.

Another thing I like about Whitaker is how he's queitly directed movies that you would not expect him to make over the last decade or so. WAITING TO EXHALE and HOPE FLOATS may not be up my alley but it's cool that he was behind the camera for those. I should track down his debut as a director, it was a cable movie called STRAPPED that's supposed to be pretty good.

Since my only contribution to this thread has been in relation to Whitaker I should probably confess that I haven't seen THE CRYING GAME. I wish I had a good reason other than knowing the twist, but I don't.

I think that knowing the twist ahead of time actually puts you in a better position to appreciate the film as pure filmmaking. You can just let go of the anticipation and enjoy the performances, the writing, and the directing.

My impression of the plot is that Rea's character falls in love with Dil. Although he finds homosexuality abhorrent, his love for Dil is stronger (love is blind, as they say), and so he continues to want to help Dil.

He made Dil cut his hair and put on the old cricket clothes because the IRA was looking for a woman, and by forcing Dil to look like a man he could hide Dil from them. Also, in terms of character arc, in that scene Dil takes the leap of completely going against his nature for Rea, since Rea has done so for him; it shows that they are both willing to do almost anything for each other.

Rea's character is, IMHO, definitely NOT gay. The reason I say this is that for the plot to work, he is naively ignorant of the idea of a gay bar or a tranny hairdresser. If he was actively gay, even in Ireland, we might presume he'd already know about these things and be able to recognise them (and as an IRA member, especially cautious not to be caught). Even if he was rather closetted, I'd suspect he'd be less naive about the idea of homosexuality and not quite so blithly ignorant that he's been frequenting a gay bar with Dil.

He is originally quite homophobic (he's IRA, which means he's Catholic, and they have a definite position there). However, once he has fallen in love with Dil, he differentiates between loving Dil as a person and wanting a sexual relationship with Dil. As I recall, from that time forward, he does not pursue Dil sexually, and has a great sense of irony about Dil's sexuality (note the "she's not a lady, either" scene). Dil continues to be attracted to Rea. Rea is not entirely comfortable with this, and tells Dil so, but tolerates it.

As far as I can discern, he has the same position as most straight people: it's not that he's never felt any attraction or arousal with regard to the same sex, but it is not his primary nor predominant orientation and he is not interested in pursuing a same-sex relationship. Although he has been attracted to Dil, he truly thought that Dil was female at that time, and he is not generally attracted to men.

Keep in mind, that for the time, openly addressing sexuality and having a gay (as well as transvestite) central character who is sympathetic was quite groundbreaking in itself. Rea's character goes through a remarkable transition in terms of how he relates to homosexuals and homosexuality, and it reflects a transition that many people individually, and as such, societies on whole, are experiencing still today.

Belethedheliel, CHUD's resident On-To-It Person.

you know, my friend tells a great story about how him, his older brother, his mother, and father decided to rent the Crying Game after it got a lot of hype in the awards season. They had very little knowledge of what the movie actually was about, and when the twist was finally revealed, my friend's father got up, looked at his sons, and said "well...that was unexpected" and walked away in disgust.

I guess you had to be there.

This isn't the "Give the Person Above You A Profession" thread, Mike.

Besides, you're just saying nice things so I will help you with an essay later, aren't you?

I think you're the only one here who can spell my name right, though. Good on ya.

I agree with the earlier notion that if all you know is the transvestite twist then you will surprised with the film you get when you finally get around to watching it. The film feels a lot like Psycho to me as it completely shifts gears after it's first portion, having built up our sympathies for a character only to take that person away from us.

Late to this thread, but I enjoyed TCG even though I knew the secret before I saw the film, because there was a hype about Jaye's role.

Remember Ebert was pissed that Siskel gave away the surprise during one of their tv appearances?

It was obvious to me Rea's character felt something for Jaye's character.

I liked the scene where Jaye visits Rea at his work site, where Rea defends him by asking the rude boys if they've ever picked up their teeth with broken fingers.

Rea's character says "I liked you better as a woman.""
"That's a start.."replies Jaye.

I remember seeing Michael Caine on Conan O'Brien some time ago, and Conan asked him if he had ever heard anyone do the Cockney accent authentically, and Caine brought up Forrest Whitaker's performance in THE CRYING GAME. No surprise there, because Whitaker brings the method acting like Sam Elliott brings the grizzled.

I will forever link this beautiful movie with the karoake scene in Slither. Thank you very much, James Gunn.

This is on later tonight, one of the Encore channels I think. Maybe it was last night. I don't know.

I wonder how anyone could actually not see that Jaye's a man? I think it's pretty obvious from his face alone. While he looks more female than say Sam Elliott, it's still pretty obvious.

Stephen Rea should have had a better career afterwards. Feardotcom? That's possible the worst you could get in. Withaker gives another great performance, you should check him out in the fifth season of The Shield. And of course, in The Last King of Scotland.

Living in NYC and having known some trannies personally, it wasn't a shock to me. But I remember the whole theater gasping out loud. People really had no idea. Also the movie was touted as a thriller, so people were paying attention to things related to the terrorist plot and kidnapping. As such, a mannish looking woman isn't necessarily something that'll get picked up on one's radar.

Also, things always seem "obvious" in hindsight. Although people are currently saying Jaye Davidson looks "mannish," in actuality she really looks just androgenous. If you didn't know she was a biological man, you wouldn't think twice about how she looks. And many people didn't.

I haven't seen this movie in years, but I remember loving it. Maybe I'll revisit it soon.

I hope Chris Crocker gets famous enough to be in The Crying Game remake so I can see his glorious balls on the big screen.

I completely agree - I think hindsight is 20/20. I had the "twist" spoiled for me before I saw it, and I still thought Jaye Davidson made a fairly convincing looking woman. I think, also having recently seen it again, that if I hadn't known at the time, I might have been fooled. As it was, my boyfriend at the time didn't know, he saw it with me, and he was totally fooled. And yeah, we do see alot of trannies here - Jaye Davidson is slightly mannish looking, but was still one of the more convincing ones I've seen in my life.