Whedon talks "Buffy: Season 8" - Page 2

Maybe its just me, but Whedon's trademark dialogue and scene transitions make things kind of confusing in comic book form. I've been reading comics for most of my life (though I'm down to Buffy and Fables at this point), but there have been several times where I've had to puzzle out what's going on, what's being said, what characters are which...and not necessarily in a fun "this is challenging for a comic book" kind of way - the latest example of which was the completely out-of-nowhere-and-totally-unexplained appearance in issue four of those elemental-looking spirit/demon/witchgod things that help Willow. The way the story is structured, they just appear, state their vague plot purpose, and disappear without the characters or Whedon himself doing so much as tossing the reader a proverbial bone of explanation.

I'm not sure that its a bad thing - I don't insist on having my hand held - but it has struck me more than once that things seem kind of jumbled.

Anyone else have this problem?

"Anyone else have this problem?"

Yes. I found myself re-reading several sections over the first four issues because things seemed unclear or confusing. Maybe I'm just out of practice with reading comic books. I'm glad it's not just me.

Who were those creatures talking to Willow? How is it that Warren was stabbing her in the eye with a scalpel, but she was perfectly fine later? And if she can heal people, why doesn't she fix Xander's eye? Ok, I'm done.

Some kind of elemental source-of-her-infinite powers or something. Matt M said it well. The problem isn't so much with the lack of Whedon identifying them as it is the jarring shifts in scene - which work so wonderfully well on tv, but, it seems, decidedly less-so in comic panels. The way the plot/panels are constructed, it's simply unclear what's going on to me. Glad I am also not alone in this.

No freaking clue. Notice, if you will, how she is significantly not lobotomized, either. I distinctly recall the aforementioned elemental spirit thingies telling Willow that her heart was safe with them, but not her body. Was something set up for later (say, an implant in Willow, ala Spike), that was just extremely poorly telegraphed? Again, it's unclear.

Yet again - no clue. Maybe Xander likes his new Nick Fury look?

And in addition, why could the First take Warren's form in S7 if he never died?

Why does Amy want to kill all the scoobies?

I love that we're getting a season 8, but I am slightly frustrated by what appear to be big ol' leaps in logic and an oddly structured, often hard-to-follow layout.

All is forgiven if Joss gets Grant Morrison to do a Giles-centric tale.

Has he said he's going to do that? If so, that would be teh awesome.

He has not - but one can hope.

If they can bring somone back from the dead, heal his fucking eye already. Or, at least, offer some mystical bullshit explanation that has him "able to see the Force" or something, to explain why they haven't done it.

Also, doesn't the scar/mark look like an inverted sci/fi channel emblem?

Any thoughts on issue #5? Interesting story, but I was underwhelmed.

I really liked it, especially the ending. A clever double-play on the theme of 'selflessness' too.

I do think Whedon needs to back off on the crosscutting, where somebody starts a line and then somebody somewhere else unconsciously completes it. It's a good technique if it serves the story, but not if it keeps making me re-read the last couple pages.

I agree on the crosscutting. It was distracting from what was otherwise a very good story.

I can't wait to see how Brian K. Vaughn handles the story for the next issue. With the absence of a character like Anya, Spike, or Faith so far in season 8, I think we're missing a sense sarcasm and reality. Does that make sense? Those characters were always there to keep everything in check and point out the silliness of a situation. Anyway, it will be nice to have Faith back.

...Bringing back people from the dead, or healing them of their medical problems, has been pretty well established as something you're not supposed to do in the Buffyverse. Remember how it turned Willow evil and junk? Remember how, before that, she didn't agree to cure Buffy's mom's tumor? Remember how Dawn trying to bring her mom back almost went horribly wrong?

I'm not very impressed with the first four issues, but I loved #5. It's just classic Whedon, and reminds me of why I liked the guy in the first place.

The Faith issue should be out tomorrow, right? Looks like a great one with Brian K. Vaughan writing. mini spoiler in black
FAith tracking down a rogue Slayer to kill her before she brings about the Apocalypse.

MTV.com on Faith Arc
Can't wait.

Yeah, the 1st four weren't fantastic, but I'll allow it as he is transitioning the Buffy universe into comic form, and trying to establish what has happened between the show and the comics.

I'm still going to stick with it, though, and hope that classic Whedon wins out in the end.

Issue 5 was a pleasant surprise (I didn't even realize it was a stand alone until I was at/near the end).

No Future for You, Part 1: I've been digging the series so far. The change in writers is imperceptible. Presumably all scripts get a Whedon once-over, just like the TV show.

Jeanty's artwork still has me split. He's great with action and atmosphere, and the roughness of his line fits the mood of the stories. It's his character likenesses: either he nails them (Giles, Xander, Buffy) or he misses WIDE (Faith). The proportions on the last page are particularly off.

In the end, I'd rather the characters sound right than look right, so I'm staying tuned.

Whedon interviews Vaughn
no spoilers, just fun. Can't wait to see what Vaughn does with Lost. Goddard proved he is one of the best writers around and upped S3. Think he can do the same.

Very nice. I would venture that the (spectacular) Chen cover for #8 appears a wee bit spoilery, but I'm already expecting there to be more to this 'evil Slayer' than Faith's been told.

I enjoyed this one. Nice that Faith gets her own adventure, and it looks like their setting up a pretty formidable opponent for her. And I like all the dialogue between Faith and Giles. I'd disagree about the artwork, though. I think the drawings of Faith really capture Dushku's persona, much more than the drawings of other familiar characters in the past issues.

GREAT cover, too.

My favourite bit was the line that made Alan Moore part of the Buffyverse.

Ha! I didn't catch that. "The Grey-Bearded Wizard of Northampton." That's pretty funny.

Man, Vaughn certainly gets these characters...I didn't even realize I was reading a non-whedon issue until I looked back at the cover. And plus I felt like a complete dork for understanding Xander's "Capt. Ron/Snake Plisken" rant.

I wonder if any of that is contractual. I know that in some movie-TV tie-in books, artists have had to deliberately avoid using actors as facial models because it's not included in the contract. Why it would be OK to use Gellar and not Dushku might have more to do with their respective agents than Jeanty's abilities.

I'm pretty sure likeness rights aren't the problem. There are a couple of panels where a photo reference was clearly involved, and of course Chen's cover is unmistakably Dushku. Chen draws the ladies' heads too small for their bodies, but that's a separate issue.

I liked the first arc a lot, but I agree that it felt too like a "reunion special." The one about the replacement Buffy and the start to the Faith/Giles arc was the first time I thought we were getting something new. I like a lot of the concepts they're setting up and I'm eager to see where this goes -- and Faith & Giles are a great pair. One-eyed Xander is awesome, too.

And I'm sure you all saw this, but the Warren question is answered by Whedon in the letters page -- he tries to offer an explanation for it, and then ends with "I forgot, okay?"

Issue 7 hit stores yesterday. It was ok, felt too short. They really didn't capture Faith that well.

Anyone know why Whedon's Runaways is taking so friggin long to come out beteen issues? Is that normal?

The Chain was, oddly, the best issue so far, in my humble opinion. Had it been an actual episode of the series, it would have been one of the classics like Conversations with Dead People or The Body. It was refreshingly different, turning the mythology on its head or, at the very least, showing it from a different angle.

As for the new storyline, I loved Faith hanging up on Robin Wood, but didn't buy her slamming a fork into Gile's arm (although it set up the sweet reference to Season 2's The Dark Age)... I'm way to familiar with this show.

Oh shit.
story at AICN with the first 5 pages

Exclusive? I saw those somewhere else. They were lied to.

But the pages and set up looks great.

I wonder if there's any way that Angel flying around on a pet dragon will not be ridiculous?

I'm guessing not.

I'm opting out of reading Angel's new "season" - that show ended note perfectly for me (with the exception of Lorne's exit), and I frankly don't want to know what happens next. That last shot and line of season 5 was the definition of open-ended closure for me, and seeing what happens next isn't nearly as compelling as the hopeful ambiguity of the show's televised end.

Just curious; what problem did you have with Lorne's exit?

I brought it up in the Buffy/Angel thread from a while back - not trying to derail this one, but here's what I'd said:

http://chud.com/forums/showpost.php?...&postcount=211

Rath did a nice job of rationalizing it for me here:

http://chud.com/forums/showpost.php?...&postcount=213

But I remain unconvinced, in the sense that Lorne's exit seems to compromise and/or betray an essential theme of the show - namely, that no one human is worth truly giving up on if they show a willingness to change. Yes, it's an illustration of how Angel has given up certain principles, but that one seems integral to the concept of a "Champion" to me, and it rang false for me.

SPOILERS, MAYBE.


Has anybody else been reading this? I know we lost a bunch of posts to the revamp, so I thought I'd resurrect the thread. Mostly, I wanted to resurrect the thread to talk about who Twilight may be. Having just read No. 11, I'm thinking (and I don't want it to be) that the Big Bad is Riley Finn. My reasons: (1) Twilight appears to be running a black ops unit similar to the Initiative, (2) He appears to have somewhat intimate knowledge of the Slayer, (3) There was a reference to Riley within the issue itself, and (4) The tease in the issue suggests it's someone we're familiar with. I'm hoping that I'm wrong (hell, I probably am), but it's fun to speculate.

That's...that's actually a really good guess. And makes a lot of sense. If it's true, it would be the first interesting thing that has been done with his character.

Thanks for bringing this thread back, M. And yeah, I think you may have called it.

While we're filling in the blanks, I note some eerie foreshadowing in #10. The look on Willow's face when Sephrilan tells Buffy that her triumph will be "the death of magic". Is W being set up as a Judas figure?

Also from #10, gotta re-quote at least one of the fantasy breaks: "But till then, TV's Tina Fey, we must find a way to keep warm."

Riley was never misogynistic. Twilight is. It could just as easily be Caleb, since he's familiar with the Scythe move Buffy used as the coup-de-gras on Mr. Fillion. We also saw Caleb in the 'recap' at the beginning.

Man, I hope it's not Riley. If he's Twilight, that's another unfortunate example of the show taking an essentially decent character and (literally) demonizing them just because they're desperate for a BIG SHOCK VILLAIN!!!! They did it to Amy and Scott Hope (offscreen) and even to Warren to a certain degree. It's cheap.

I'm hoping the mask gag was just that, a gag, and that Twilight is nobody we know. Or at least, nobody we know to be a non-villain.

Amy had a pretty big downward arc from Season 1 to 7. Progressing to big villain seems kind of natural with that.

And Scott Hope? Why, 'cause he's gay?

That's a good point. Clearly, something major would have had to have happened for Riley to become Twilight. And, while I generally trust the writers involved, I'm not sure how they'd pull off turning a wholesome, genuine good guy into the Big Bad. Plus, as has been mentioned, good-guy-gone-bad has been way over used by the Buffy/Angel series: Angel, Cordelia, Fred, Willow, Amy and Jonathan. Hell, even (SPOILER)Gunn(END SPOILER) (since the new Angel comic is considered cannon). That's not a bad choice, either. I mean, he's dead, but when has that ever stopped a comic book character?


Oh, and Scott Freakin' Hope?!? It took me, like, 5 minutes to remember who that was. I'm not sure that spreading rumors Buffy is a lesbian qualifies him as a BIG SHOCK VILLAIN.

Well, as mentioned, he apparently turned out to be a total bastard, retrospectively, which bugged the crap out of me because it didn't fit with the character that we met in season 3. But OK, not a big villain. Still, it's part and parcel of the same annoying tendency to turn characters bad when the writers don't know what to do with them anymore (and sometimes even when they do).

Amy's only "downward spiral" was when she got turned into a rat. Then she suddenly became a jerk in S6 because they needed an enabler for the story; then she became a villain in S7, again, because they needed a plot point. Her actual actions stopped making any kind of sense, they just decided to make her a villain for no reason (because, I guess, they couldn't have two good witches hanging around). It was sloppy writing, though I suppose they've now presented the possibility that she could redeem herself or at least have some motive for her actions.

In Season 2 Amy is clearly using magic to influence her teachers, completely uncaring as to everything that happened to her mother the year before. The seeds were most definitely there.

The seeds were there, for sure, but her turn to downright villain was pretty abrupt. While her role as an enabler (as it were) in Season 6 made perfect sense, her actions in Season 7 did not. So, what, she was pissed at Willow for "sobering up"? Okay. Was it enough to make her want to kill Willow or, per Season 8, the entire Scooby gang? I agree with Prankster that her absolute turn to the dark side made no sense.

On a different topic: Are we getting an Oz storyline in the next couple of issues? The arc is entitled, "Wolves at the Gate" and the synopsis mentions Xander recruiting an old ally.

And take a look at the preview of the cover art. Is that Morpheus and Death? What an odd crossover that would be.

The 'old ally' is Dracula. Yes, be afraid.

Son of a bitch.

I loved the mask gag. Whedon continues to impress. Hopefully The Dollhouse won't slow him down on the 2 comics.

I can't see Riley as Twilight. Though the mask should tell us it's someone we know. Or he's just wearing it to be cool. Either way this last issue was really funny.

It did and it didn't. Superficially, sure, two witches out for a night on the town. But given the stupid, laboured drug addiction metaphor that hangs like a millstone around S6, her actions go beyond "thoughtless" and into "nasty". Nothing she'd done at that point was comparable to being a destructive creep the way she was once de-rattified.

While I'm on the subject, I was never totally happy with Warren's change from S5 to S6 either. He was a wrongheaded fuckup in S5, but a wrongheaded fuckup who had learned his lesson. Then he comes back in S6 as a straightforward villain, and not a very interesting one. Buffy characters have this frustrating tendency to get *less* complicated and interesting, and often dumber, as the show progresses.